How effective is the 45 ACP Ball round for self-defense?

[whatnickname]

First let me say that I favor premium defensive ammo for self-defense in the heavier calibers. When it comes to 380 acp and 32 acp, my preference is ball as I have concerns that hollow points may not provide the penetration needed to get the job done, especially if my assailant is wearing heavy clothing. The case for premium defensive ammo is well supported in the FBI report published in 2014 and in quite a few other articles by people that are much more knowledgeable than I am.

All of this aside, the 230 grain ball round has a long and celebrated history in the military. I am well aware of the limitations placed on the ammunition used by the military by various international agreements. I also knew quite a few WWII veterans that saw countless examples of the effectiveness of the 45 ball round in combat. Everyone of these veterans to a man had the same opinion which was that the 45 ball round was, in ever so many words, a “man stopper”. These veterans had no reason to make anything up. They were there and simply offered an opinion based on their personal experiences. And yet if you believe what so many “experts” opine today, the 45 ball round is next to useless when it comes to defending life and limb. I suppose there’s quite a bit to support the notion that a 185 or 200 grain hollow point round traveling around 1000fps is more effective than a 230 grain ball round traveling at 850fps. There are still some 1911 formats, like the short barreled 3” pistols and some other guns, that will only run reliably with ball ammo. Case in point is my older 1911 RIA 5” that was never set up to run anything but ball. This pistol is not at all reliable with hollow points but will run any ball round you care to put in it with complete reliability. So, if all you have in your 45 acp is ball ammo, are you at a disadvantage? So what’s the consensus? Is 45 ball as useless as some folks claim it to be?

 

[Jonesy814]

I wouldn’t want to get shot with one.
I know a 230gr fmj will go through a treated 4x4…just barely

 

[nettlle]

I would hardly consider 45 ball as worthless.

 

[bearcreek]

So, if all you have in your 45 acp is ball ammo, are you at a disadvantage?

Yes, of course. I can't imagine that anyone would argue that ball ammo is MORE effective than a good HP. Does that mean it's useless? No. Is it the best possible option? No. Should a person carry a gun that feeds HP ammo reliably? IMO, yes. Would I carry a gun that only fed ball ammo? Yes, if that's all I could get for some reason.

 

[armoredman]

I'd say the track record speaks for itself. If I was to carry a .45 ACP, and 230 grain ball ammo was all that was available, (I did so, many years ago), I wouldn't feel underarmed at all.

 

[Hillbilly Hydrographics]

You put a couple 45 holes clean through somebody with ball ammo there gonna feel it. Its all i buy for my 45acp shooters. I do carry my 1911 sometimes and feel just fine about my safety and ability to defend myself with plain ol boring ball ammo. I primarily carry my 357 snubbi revolver and i carry it with flat nosed fmj. Im not payin more for "defensive ammo" hollow points or whatever the newest flavor thats all the rage. Im not bashin hollow points and so forth i say carry whatever each individual feels comfortable with. But round balls and plain ol bullets has been droppin people and animals since the beginning of firearms.

 

[Gordon]

I like Winchester Ranger 230 grain as my favorite .45acp ammo
That said if I have only good ..45 Hard ball I don't miss a beat and have full confidence in it .It proved itself for me in 1969 in Vietnam.

 

[MikeInOr]

I would rather be shooting a 45 acp 230gr ball round than a 9mm fancy hollow-point.

I do load my self defense 45 acp rounds with 185 gr Golddots. I would not feel in the least bit under gunned with 45 ball ammo though.

 

[Gordon]

I would rather be shooting a 45 acp 230gr ball round than a 9mm fancy hollow-point.

I do load my self defense 45 acp rounds with 185 gr Golddots. I would not feel in the least bit under gunned with 45 ball ammo though.

Same here !

 

[Old Dog]

From World War I up into the middle 1990s, the U.S. military saw few complaints about the .45 ACP 230 grain FMJ round. I was issued a 1911 through Operations DESERT SHIELD/DESERT STORM and never lost confidence in the round.

 

[Nuclear]

I’d rather be shooting a 9mm hollow point than 45acp 230 grain ball. I know that may be the most unpopular thing I’ve ever posted on this forum, but hear me out. The 45ACP ball is the poster child for over penetration. It goes through 32 inches of ballistic gel and keeps going. That means it can go through the threat in front of you and injure or kill somebody behind them. Even if that person behind the threat isn’t an innocent, it is unlikely they are an imminent threat. Even if it hits a bone, ball ammo is more likely to deflect and keep on going out of the bad guy than fragment and stop. It is easy to find 9mm JHP that will expand to a 0.45” diameter or greater, and won’t over penetrate. In 45ACP, almost every other bullet option is better than ball ammo. I would use ball only if I had no other option.

 

[MEHavey]

See https://smallarmsreview.com/the-mil...45-acp-versus-the-9x19mm-in-military-service/
for a reasonably balanced duscussion.

 

[MikeInOr]

I’d rather be shooting a 9mm hollow point than 45acp 230 grain ball. I know that may be the most unpopular thing I’ve ever posted on this forum, but hear me out. The 45ACP ball is the poster child for over penetration. It goes through 32 inches of ballistic gel and keeps going. That means it can go through the threat in front of you and injure or kill somebody behind them. Even if that person behind the threat isn’t an innocent, it is unlikely they are an imminent threat. Even if it hits a bone, ball ammo is more likely to deflect and keep on going out of the bad guy than fragment and stop. It is easy to find 9mm JHP that will expand to a 0.45” diameter or greater, and won’t over penetrate. In 45ACP, almost every other bullet option is better than ball ammo. I would use ball only if I had no other option.

One of the great things about our country is that we still have some choice... I respect your choice even though my choice may be different.

 

[JDeere]

You answered your own question with what WWII vets had to say about it. 230 gr ball ammo taking care of business for over 100 years...

 

[trackskippy]

Which vets do we listen to? The ones that tell you that a hit to a pinkie finger will stop the fight? Or, the ones that say the guns that shoot them are unshootable? I dont put much faith in all the war stories, heard WAY too many whoppers over the decades.

Personally, if the gun is a 1911 and hasnt been to a smith to have some basic things addressed, I would want ball ammo in the gun if I were counting on it. The odds the guns will work reliably are a lot better, and that actually goes for pretty much anything. I'll take a reliable gun over a magic bullet any day.

Ball ammo works fine as a stopper, as long as you can shoot, and that goes for 9mm and some others too. A lot of people have died after being shot with ball ammo from both. Now, if youre lacking in attaining/maintaining your skills, your mileage with any of them isnt really going to make any difference.

And, if you bought into all the war story BS and think one round is all its going to take to stop the show, and stop right then to marvel, instead of carrying on shooting as you should be, I think youre likely going to be surprised and disappointed. But, then again, even a blind squirrel gets lucky once in a while.

I always thought over-penetration was a good thing, but, apparently, its not.

 

[HKGuns]

Shot placement.

 

[UncleEd]

I believe the most recent study on handgun ammo effectiveness,
which the FBI has relied upon, is that no single caliber is truly
a one-shot stopper. That includes ball and hollow points.
Street shooting results indicate that
at least two good hits must be made with any handgun caliber.
That's no guarantee either.

As HKGuns just noted, "shot placement"

So basically, .45ACP ball is fine, just not magic.

 

[hso]

celebrated

I wouldn't say "celebrated" but it certainly is long...in the tooth.

Improvements in .45ACP ammunition are real improvements in "terminal" performance.

 

[DDDWho]

In the days when the 1911 pistol and consequently the 230 gr 45 ACP we still had an equestrian cavalry. JM Browning developed the 45 ACP ball to shoot through a horse.

 

[epags]

Here is one type of roundnose ammo I carry in mine:

Feeds like a round nose but is designed for self protection.....not shooting through a horse or a house.

 

[JDeere]

Which vets do we listen to? The ones that tell you that a hit to a pinkie finger will stop the fight? Or, the ones that say the guns that shoot them are unshootable? I dont put much faith in all the war stories, heard WAY too many whoppers over the decades.

Well my Dad who landed on Utah and fought till 45 would disagree with you...carry on...

 

[The Night Rider]

In the days when the 1911 pistol and consequently the 230 gr 45 ACP we still had an equestrian cavalry. JM Browning developed the 45 ACP ball to shoot through a horse.

Cite?

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I’d rather be shooting a 9mm hollow point than 45acp 230 grain ball. I know that may be the most unpopular thing I’ve ever posted on this forum, but hear me out. The 45ACP ball is the poster child for over penetration. It goes through 32 inches of ballistic gel and keeps going. That means it can go through the threat in front of you and injure or kill somebody behind them. Even if that person behind the threat isn’t an innocent, it is unlikely they are an imminent threat. Even if it hits a bone, ball ammo is more likely to deflect and keep on going out of the bad guy than fragment and stop. It is easy to find 9mm JHP that will expand to a 0.45” diameter or greater, and won’t over penetrate. In 45ACP, almost every other bullet option is better than ball ammo. I would use ball only if I had no other option.

Given that proper 9mm hollowpoint ammo does as good or better than 45 acp hollowpoint ammo, and hollowpoint is a better stopper than ball,I agree with you 100%. I would rather quality hollowpoint 9mm than ball .45 acp.

In the days when the 1911 pistol and consequently the 230 gr 45 ACP we still had an equestrian cavalry. JM Browning developed the 45 ACP ball to shoot through a horse.

Do tell! So much mystery about the venerable 1911 and .45 acp. Depending on who you chat with, either Browning did or did not intend for the gun to be carried with a round in the chamber (although the military didn't cotton to the idea at the time), full cock or half cock. I am sure you have documentation from Browning as to the intent of the penetration capabilities, right? I have heard the stories as well, "developed/designed to stop/kill a horse" is one of them, but whether it was designed to stop or go through a horse, nobody seems to have any actual documentation of this claim or various others. Nobody documented Browning shooting a bunch of horses with various calibers to test efficacy of stopping/killing/or going through horses. With that said, if you do have documentation, that would be really cool to see.

Funny thing about being designed to go through a horse as I have had trouble getting to go all the way through much smaller hogs.

 

[The Night Rider]

Disclaimer: security guards in Colorado Springs are not permitted to carry .45 caliber handguns. They're also not permitted to carry SAO handguns. I sold off all my 1911's and all my 45 caliber handguns and switched to 9 mm Glocks a long time ago.

I'm not sure what the point of the original post is.

If I understood it correctly the poster isn't discounting premium self-defense ammunition he's saying that he has certain of his 1911 pistols that won't reliably feed it.

If I understood what I read correctly then the issue isn't the ammunition it's the handguns. If my handgun won't reliably feed my primary self-defense ammunition, I won't carry it for self-defense period.

 

[CDW4ME]

How do we define "effective"?
The bullet(s) stopped the threat.? That sounds "effective" but something is missing, how quickly.
We can all probably agree that bigger holes are more likely to stop threats quicker than smaller holes, same shot placement is assumed.
The bullet(s) stopped the threat(s) in 10 seconds versus 15 seconds; hypothetical difference but not unrealistic.
May or may not be a big difference depending on whether threat(s) were still trying to kill you for 5 more seconds.
I'd take a good 9mm or 40 HP over 45 FMJ for SD against human attackers.
.69 - .80 holes versus one that is only .45


Shot placement? Yea. Okay, we all shoot like John Wick in practice and expect to in self defense.
What variables can we pick in advance? Caliber, bullet type, capacity.
What variable is to be determined? Shot placement.
Sometimes someone who compromises the variables under their control choose to focus on (post about) the one variable that is not.
Example, one could carry better than a pocket gun with FMJ but is unwilling to "dress around" a larger gun; they compromised caliber, bullet type and capacity ... "shot placement"