How far forward to mount an AR red dot?

[RussellC]

It doesn't for me. I'm 58 and have tried everything. Once the tape went over the lens it was incredible how much better I shot.

I had people tell me to put a small piece of scotch tape on my shooting glasses over my left dominant eye, and it would somehow change. It didnt work for me, and once I started shooting both eyes open putting the pistol up to my left eye, still holfing the gun "right handed" keeping the forward sight clear and letting the rear sight and target blur, I became a better pistol shooter.

I know our difficulties are different, but it sure is interesting how people over come them.

Russellc

 

[cdb1]

Yep.

 

[imashooter]

I will give it a try, but my vision has been problematic all my life and I don't see in real 3D just walking around the house. I cannot see sights without closing one eye in most cases. Worth a try with the dot, I suppose.

When "two eyeing with a red dot it's best the optic is more forward mounted. However, that's the great thing about a red dot. No hard fast rules. Let it work for you and whatever you're most comfortable with.

 

[Varminterror]

I'm non-dominant. I was unfortunately taught to shoot everything right handed, had a pro instructor try to convince me I was left eye dominant when I was in high school and shooting with a league... But I was non-dominant all along. After instructing myself now for over 15yrs, I'd much rather be "cross dominant" than non-dominant, as I'd simply shoot the same side as my dominant eye and be happy with life. Unfortunately, my non-dominant condition means whichever direction my eyes are pointing, relative to my centerline, is the eye which takes over. So when I cheek into a long gun sight, or take any offset step with a handgun, I get the WRONG eye in control.

It's not so complicated for me. I played with the tape, it works to some extent, and I've used the (true meaning) co-witness trick since I was a kid, but really all it takes is a slight furrowing of my offside eyebrow to kick the control over to my sighting eye.

I've found it handy once I got the hang of it - in high school, before the "pro" instructor tried to convince me it was impossible to be non-dominant. Anything I can shoot right handed, I can shoot as well left handed - any difference between the two is solely a matter of currency of practice with either hand.

As an instructor, I fervently encourage shooters to learn to shoot with their dominant eye side. Eye dominance is a hard-wired neurological pathway, whereas shooting technique familiarity and automaticity ("muscle memory") is a developed skill. There's no "handedness" for shooting, as there's not enough microscale motor control involved to be overly dependent upon our dexterous handedness. I can appreciate there are a lot of those "I've been doing it for 50yrs," or "so-and-so pro shooter was cross dominant," or "do what feels most comfortable for you," but there's also a dude with no arms with archery records shot with his feet, and Jimi Hendrix played a right handed guitar upside down whenever he jammed with Albert King - neither are evidence enough for me to start shooting my bows with my toes, or flip my guitars upside down.

 

[RussellC]

I'm non-dominant. I was unfortunately taught to shoot everything right handed, had a pro instructor try to convince me I was left eye dominant when I was in high school and shooting with a league... But I was non-dominant all along. After instructing myself now for over 15yrs, I'd much rather be "cross dominant" than non-dominant, as I'd simply shoot the same side as my dominant eye and be happy with life. Unfortunately, my non-dominant condition means whichever direction my eyes are pointing, relative to my centerline, is the eye which takes over. So when I cheek into a long gun sight, or take any offset step with a handgun, I get the WRONG eye in control.

It's not so complicated for me. I played with the tape, it works to some extent, and I've used the (true meaning) co-witness trick since I was a kid, but really all it takes is a slight furrowing of my offside eyebrow to kick the control over to my sighting eye.

I've found it handy once I got the hang of it - in high school, before the "pro" instructor tried to convince me it was impossible to be non-dominant. Anything I can shoot right handed, I can shoot as well left handed - any difference between the two is solely a matter of currency of practice with either hand.

As an instructor, I fervently encourage shooters to learn to shoot with their dominant eye side. Eye dominance is a hard-wired neurological pathway, whereas shooting technique familiarity and automaticity ("muscle memory") is a developed skill. There's no "handedness" for shooting, as there's not enough microscale motor control involved to be overly dependent upon our dexterous handedness. I can appreciate there are a lot of those "I've been doing it for 50yrs," or "so-and-so pro shooter was cross dominant," or "do what feels most comfortable for you," but there's also a dude with no arms with archery records shot with his feet, and Jimi Hendrix played a right handed guitar upside down whenever he jammed with Albert King - neither are evidence enough for me to start shooting my bows with my toes, or flip my guitars upside down.

Same here, I will continue right handed. Even with lots and lots if trying, at best I am almost as good as right handed, except it feels very akward. Back to right shoulder, things return to status quo. It may work for Jimmie, and he was in the service, and I have never read about which eye of his was dominant, it just does not work for me to shoot left handed.

I have a shooter co worker who recently lost vision permanently via an "eye stroke." Unfortunately it was there dominant eye. They are anxious to get to the range and see what it has done to their shooting.

Russellc

 

[Varminterror]

Eye dominance is a pretty simple phenomenon, if you consider your eyes As two digital cameras, separated slightly.

The two cameras take a photo at the same time, of the same field, but from ever so slightly different positions and angles. Each eye/camera sends their respective photo to the brain for photo processing. The brain picks which photo to use as the "base," and then uses details from the second photo to fill in imperfections and give greater depth to the base photo. By policy, the "dude" running that photo processing booth picks the same eye's photo as the base whenever possible. So one camera runs the show, and the other is support. That is eye dominance.

Now, the brain, aka photo editor, is bright enough to recognize when the traditional base image is compromised, and "change leads." So if one camera were turned off, as in one eye closed, the brain still reads a full field picture from the support camera as if it were leading. If the lead eye is closed, lead transferred in that way, then reopened partially (keeping the photo partially compromised), the lead will stay with the "wrong eye" for quite some time - until triggered by some visual cue the lead eye is back to normal.

For me, forcing that switch is easy - if I furrow one brow and fix my focus (sometimes need to blink one eye), after years of practice, I can change back and forth. The transfer happens just as fast as if you were alternatingly opening and closing one eye open and one eye closed back and forth.

But forcing those switches isn't instinctual, and it's not permanent. Hence my direction to new shooters to power through and develop their automaticity with their dominant eye side hand. Older shooters feel awkward with the off hand because they have done it one way for too long, AND because we forget how awkward we felt as a kid when we were learning how to shoot. Everything was awkward back then, and we were in a mindset of constant learning aka, everything felt new and awkward, so nothing really felt awkward - when we get older, we have a platform paradigm established, so "different" becomes awkward. And of course, if a shooter feels they do ok, and changing doesn't immediately do better, they settle back into their old mode of "ok," never getting a chance to see how much better "better" could be.

 

[<*(((><]

@Varminterror: That's interesting about your eye dominance, never heard of someone being non-dominance. When you do the test for dominance (put your hands together overlapping and form a triangle between the webs of your index and thumbs) and extend them out and focus on an object and bring the triangle close to your face where do your hands track? Just curious where your hands track to.

@brewer12345: Back on topic for the OP, I keep my red dot sight at the end of the upper receiver so I can keep both eyes open, but also it allows me to mount a 3x magnifier behind it which I like for walking the desert where you might get a longer shot on a coyote or jackrabbit.

 

[Varminterror]

@Varminterror: That's interesting about your eye dominance, never heard of someone being non-dominance. When you do the test for dominance (put your hands together overlapping and form a triangle between the webs of your index and thumbs) and extend them out and focus on an object and bring the triangle close to your face where do your hands track? Just curious where your hands track to.

It depends on the day, or the hour - or literally, which side of my face the object is. If it's right of my nose even a little, I'm right, if it's left, then I'm left. Hence non-dominance. So if I do the test looking at the K in the middle of my name on the plaque on the wall across from my desk, I'm left eye dominant, when I look at the NEXT letter, the O, I'm right eye. I don't track consistently, I'm non-dominant. The test only proves which eye is leading at the time I take it - which changes day to day, minute to minute.

Your oversimplification and lack of realizing non-dominant is an option is exactly how that "pro" instructor when I was in college convinced himself I was left eye dominant - he didn't know "non-dominant" was a thing, so he tried to force me into left eye, and resultingly left-handed shooting. He failed to recognize eye dominance is not a binary universe, so when I saddle up with a firearm, the target is inherently just slightly on the off-side of my face, so my dominance shifts away from the eye which is on the firearm side...

Ain't my first rodeo - I've talked through this issue with neurologists, optometrists and ophthamologists, and other shooting instructors. Failure to recognize non-dominance, or forcing shooters to shoot with their "writing hand" is out dated material. If you're an NRA instructor, you should have gotten the memo in the updated material (especially as we've gone through these recent revisions), that non-dominance is an "option" and instructors should be mindful to not let themselves fall into the trap of incorrectly categorizing certain students.

 

[herrwalther]

I am a creature of habit, more so than most people I have met. I keep my red dot in the same area where I learned to shoot with one in the military a decade or so ago, right in front of the backup iron sights. Or about where Creaky_Old_Cop has his Eotech mounted in the third picture.

I also know I DO NOT follow the normal way of shooting. I tried shooting red dots with both eyes open. I could never get the hang of it and my marksmanship scores suffered from this obviously bad (to me) advise. It didn't matter if I was shooting 1 meter or 300, my shots went all over the place keeping both eyes open. As soon as I started ignoring people giving me advice on how to shoot, I went right back to shooting expert and sharpshooting schools. Do what works best for you, after trying what doesn't work for you.

 

[JeffG]

 

[cdb1]

I am a creature of habit, more so than most people I have met. I keep my red dot in the same area where I learned to shoot with one in the military a decade or so ago, right in front of the backup iron sights. Or about where Creaky_Old_Cop has his Eotech mounted in the third picture.

I also know I DO NOT follow the normal way of shooting. I tried shooting red dots with one eye closed. I could never get the hang of it and my marksmanship scores suffered from this obviously bad (to me) advise. It didn't matter if I was shooting 1 meter or 300, my shots went all over the place keeping both eyes open. As soon as I started ignoring people giving me advice on how to shoot, I went right back to shooting expert and sharpshooting schools. Do what works best for you, after trying what doesn't work for you.

I can't figure out which way you shoot from your thread. Both eyes open or one?

 

[herrwalther]

I can't figure out which way you shoot from your thread. Both eyes open or one?

Edited. I shoot with one eye closed (my left eye). Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[cdb1]

Edited. I shoot with one eye closed (my left eye). Thank you for pointing that out.

No problem.

 

[Redfisher60]

JeffG that is a cool looking AR! Or as the guy at Bass Pro said yesterday, "sporting rifle"!