gaudio5
Member
i want to down load some 357 mag loads the called for load is 10.9 grains aa#5 and a cci 500 primer how low can i go? is it dangerous to go to low?
how low is to low?
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Mark whiz
Member
Heck, if you're using a revolver - just shoot .38s for reduced loads.
It is far better to stick to the published loading data than to try to push the charge too load. Doing so could be dangerous, or at the very least cause misfires, hangfires, or bullets stuck in the barrel - depending on the particular powder's properties.
It is far better to stick to the published loading data than to try to push the charge too load. Doing so could be dangerous, or at the very least cause misfires, hangfires, or bullets stuck in the barrel - depending on the particular powder's properties.
gaudio5
Member
see thats the thing i want to see how low i can download the 357 to, on second note how is it dangerous? i hve read loads that say do not reduce but why? what would be bad about it?
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Many magnum pistol powders, and even some of the mid-range ones will not burn correctly when the charge is reduced below suggested minimums. That can result in squib loads, stuck bullets, and blown-up guns.
If you just gotta go low in a .357, at least switch to a fast powder like Bullseye or something that will burn right at lower pressure.
BTW: 10.9 grains of AA#5 / 158 grain bullet in a .357 is above max in two of my books.
rcmodel
If you just gotta go low in a .357, at least switch to a fast powder like Bullseye or something that will burn right at lower pressure.
BTW: 10.9 grains of AA#5 / 158 grain bullet in a .357 is above max in two of my books.
rcmodel
gaudio5
Member
why would the gun blow up with a low powder charge? im so full of questions sorry
zxcvbob
Member
Look up the reload data for .38 Special using AA#5 and a similar bullet; let that be your lower limit. W296 and H-110 are the only pistol powders that I know of where an undercharge (within reason) can be dangerous.
Bob
Bob
Jim Watson
Member
If you are exploring extra light loads, use cast bullets. A stuck jacketed bullet is much harder to drive out of the barrel.
It's called detonation. Go too low and the powder explodes instead of burning really fast like it is supposed to.
There are many documented instances where light loads of Hodgdon H110 have gone kaboom. The why's and wherefores have been studied by the powder companies. Unfortunately all they can do to this day is say YEP! it happens - don't know why but you better not download this caliber case below this weight of charge.
The only powder I've ever heard of this happening with is H110 but since Win 296 is for all practical purposes H110 I imagine it is subject to the same effect.
Bartkowski
Member
I thought that some powder companies dismissed the issue of detonation as a myth. But for the time being I would listen to everyone else and not go to low.
fireflyfather
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Bart,
This happens much more frequently in large rifle cases with slow powders. It's a well documented, if unexplained phenomenon. I'd never heard of it in pistol calibers, but, then again, I'm kinda new to reloading. Suffice it to say, though, that a combination of a low charge, a slow powder, and a big case is BAD NEWS.
This happens much more frequently in large rifle cases with slow powders. It's a well documented, if unexplained phenomenon. I'd never heard of it in pistol calibers, but, then again, I'm kinda new to reloading. Suffice it to say, though, that a combination of a low charge, a slow powder, and a big case is BAD NEWS.
GP100man
Member
fellas let me tell ya the way i was told:
slow powder is supposed to burn progressivly from rear to front,if lying in the case as to enuff room that primmer sparks can spray all of it at one time then thats bad !!!
the faster pistol powders have retardants that "control" burn rate to some point.
ive had different muzzle reports with lilgun down loading in 357mag.
wanted to add i down load with clays ,burns cleaner at low pressures .
ive shot my cast now for about ten yrs .
i never down loaded jacketed bullets
my 2cents worth
GP100man
slow powder is supposed to burn progressivly from rear to front,if lying in the case as to enuff room that primmer sparks can spray all of it at one time then thats bad !!!
the faster pistol powders have retardants that "control" burn rate to some point.
ive had different muzzle reports with lilgun down loading in 357mag.
wanted to add i down load with clays ,burns cleaner at low pressures .
ive shot my cast now for about ten yrs .
i never down loaded jacketed bullets
my 2cents worth
GP100man
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MarshallDodge
Member
Some of the powder manufacturers list load data for Cowboy Action shooting which are typically light loads.
Accurate has links on this page:
http://www.accuratepowder.com/loaddata_caliber_handgun.htm
Hodgdon:
http://www.hogdon.com/
Accurate has links on this page:
http://www.accuratepowder.com/loaddata_caliber_handgun.htm
Hodgdon:
http://www.hogdon.com/
The only way you are going to blow anything up is by double (or more) charging with powder, or sticking a bullet in the barrel and then firing another behind it.
You aren't going to blow anything up with too light of a load. There IS NOT a documented case that has been verified. It CAN NOT be reproduced in a laboratory. The alleged cases of detonation involved slow burning rifle powders. Even the slowest of pistol powders is supercharged compared to the rifle powders.
You aren't going to blow anything up with too light of a load. There IS NOT a documented case that has been verified. It CAN NOT be reproduced in a laboratory. The alleged cases of detonation involved slow burning rifle powders. Even the slowest of pistol powders is supercharged compared to the rifle powders.
sublimaze41
Member
Stinger, I have heard just that as well. Can you explain that any further, or is it just not necessary? I.E, most prone calibers. Thanks
Shell Shucker
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If you want a light 357 load simply look one up in a loading manual. I don't see the point of trying to download a "magnum" powder when so many powders suited for light loads (and published data) are available. If you use the right tool for the job you will get better results.
zxcvbob
Member
He asked about No. 5, which is not a "magnum powder". Accurate publishes .38 Special data and .357 Magnum data using No. 5, and he could safely load anything in between in .357 brass.
Bob
Bob
Shell Shucker
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I admit that I don't know "diddly squat" about #5. Maybe I was focused on the "don't download H-110" posts. OOPS!
The point of my post was that mild loads with appropriate powders are published. It's as simple as looking one up.
No offence intended.
The point of my post was that mild loads with appropriate powders are published. It's as simple as looking one up.
No offence intended.
Crazy4nitro
Member
And I'm With JibJab
'Nitro
'Nitro
[sarcasm]Well! That certainly explains why the three reloading manuals I have make it very clear not to use less H110 than the minimum load shown...[/sarcasm]
To the OP:
Do what you want but if you download H110 or W296 below the minimum loads shown in your manual you are risking your gun and your self. It's not a question of if but when.
As others have said there are plenty of powders available for a .357 Mag that you can use to get medium to lite loads. Titegroup comes to mind as one and it is about as position independent a powder as one can get. The Cowboy Action guys love it for just that reason - they load a measley 5 or 6 grs in that big ole .45LC case.
jfh
Member.
I've just been chasing this issue for the last month, moving 38+P Speer Data for the GDSB135JHP bullet into 357 cases with AA#5 (among other powders).
The results of my research are parallel to jibjab's, and to the comments about NOT reducing H-110 or 296.
However, I disagree with Shell Shucker. Generally speaking, there is an extended "hole" in the data in 357 loads--I only found one or two softball 357 loads (using 231 and TiteGroup, IIRC), then jumping on up to 'starting loads' in the 357 Magnum that were typically at 30,000 or above. So, I suppose it depends on what you call "low" 357 loads.
I first tried filling this hole by using Power Pistol, which Speer lists in its data sheets for that bullet in both 38+P and 357. So far, after 1200-1500 test rounds, there is no issue of detonation at all--the 38 data moved into the 357 case nicely. In other words, a standard 38 special recipe--not the softball "2.8 gr. bullseye-148 DEWC" paper-punching loads; I haven't tested them--works just fine in 357 cases, but needs to be tweaked to feel the same and to shoot to the same POA.
Jibjib's recipe seems to be about right, based on my experiences. I found that 8.0 gr. of #5 under a 140LTC mimics very well the Speer factory 38+P GDSB-135 load. With the Speer bullet, it's at 8.5 gr. (Note that these loads are in a modern 38/357 2" J-frame.)
FWIW, the Vitavouri (sp?) manual has a broad range of charges in both 38 and 357. I've just tried out N350, and it's a very impressive powder (for my project)--meters absolutely consistently in Lee measures with adjustable charge bars, low weights (economical), VERY clean burning, and shoots to the same POA over a broad charge range.
Jim H.
The results of my research are parallel to jibjab's, and to the comments about NOT reducing H-110 or 296.
However, I disagree with Shell Shucker. Generally speaking, there is an extended "hole" in the data in 357 loads--I only found one or two softball 357 loads (using 231 and TiteGroup, IIRC), then jumping on up to 'starting loads' in the 357 Magnum that were typically at 30,000 or above. So, I suppose it depends on what you call "low" 357 loads.
I first tried filling this hole by using Power Pistol, which Speer lists in its data sheets for that bullet in both 38+P and 357. So far, after 1200-1500 test rounds, there is no issue of detonation at all--the 38 data moved into the 357 case nicely. In other words, a standard 38 special recipe--not the softball "2.8 gr. bullseye-148 DEWC" paper-punching loads; I haven't tested them--works just fine in 357 cases, but needs to be tweaked to feel the same and to shoot to the same POA.
Jibjib's recipe seems to be about right, based on my experiences. I found that 8.0 gr. of #5 under a 140LTC mimics very well the Speer factory 38+P GDSB-135 load. With the Speer bullet, it's at 8.5 gr. (Note that these loads are in a modern 38/357 2" J-frame.)
FWIW, the Vitavouri (sp?) manual has a broad range of charges in both 38 and 357. I've just tried out N350, and it's a very impressive powder (for my project)--meters absolutely consistently in Lee measures with adjustable charge bars, low weights (economical), VERY clean burning, and shoots to the same POA over a broad charge range.
Jim H.
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jfh
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