How many of you carry reloads in your SD guns?

Carry reloads

  • yes

    Votes: 154 55.4%

  • no

    Votes: 124 44.6%
  • Total voters
    278
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
You did an awful lot of rationalization to come to that conclusion. People have an infinite capacity to rationalize anything. You should give it more thought starting with ; HOW MUCH IS YOUR LIFE WORTH ?
 
Robert101 said:
To those people that discount the use of reloads for SD.
1. the use of hollow point bullets used by all major manufacturers are intended to release as much energy as possible, thereby, increasing lethality. So reloading with a similar bullet increases your liability how?
2. We all simply follow manufacturers recommendations. Many times the ammo manufacturers provide +P ammo. So reloading within SAMMI specs increases your liability how?

Bottom line is that "just cause" will be your deciding factor. Some of the questions posted here in "cross examination" are way to funny and not well thought out.
Click to expand...

^^ This.

Even from a European point of view, with a different legal background, this is what makes absolute sense. Sounds kind of weird that someone would be accused of having a deliberate will to kill based on the use of handloads, and that the same doesn't happen when using hollow points marked as "+P". If the lawyer from the other part will says "the commercial ammo has been tested in a lab and your handloads have not" and so on, then he should be challenged to prove that my handloads are "more lethal" than that "+P" commercial ammo. A good ballistics expert witness could give him a hard time, in my humble opinion. Innocent until proven guilty, they say.
 
hartcreek said:
By deffinition isnt a cartridge supposed to be capable of being leathal. Otherwise you might as well throw it at the perp.
Click to expand...

I like this.

I can see the court argument now, "If you had not used reloads he would not be as dead."

Being a little dead is kind of like being a little pregnant.:)

I voted for reloads although i carry either in my self defense firearms. I tend to prefer factory for other reasons than performance but I will use my reloads in a heartbeat.

I will use what works best in my firearm and for me. Remember, a hit with a 22LR trumps a miss with a 44 Magnum even when loaded with a super expanding bullet.
 
I carry my own cast HP's in both 9mill and 45. I have yet to see where any one using reloads has had a problem in court because of their reloads.
 
I wouldn't carry factory ammo unless that was my only option. I trust my JHP's and have had absolutely zero mis-fires or any other malfunction in more than 30 yrs. of reloading, can't say the same for factory, which is one of the reasons I started reloading in the first place.

As for the legal stuff, I ran that by an attorney / expert in gun laws and he said there isn't one single case he has seen, in which, someone has been successfully prosecuted for using reloads.

GS
 
I have reloads for my spare mags in the G19.
I use new starline brass. I run each round through the calipers after push testing for setback. I plunk test each one. Visually inspected each and every powder shot when loading them. I'm confident that my quality control exceeds most commercial ammo.
 
When I carry it's with factory ammo (I’m only slightly more afraid of the bad guys than I am of the court system).

I have researched and chrono'd factory ammo, and I carry the factory load that I feel is most likely to terminate the bad guy's attack on me. Usually, it's a highest energy, deepest penetration selection from Underwood Ammo or Buffalo Bore depending on caliber. I have two rules on the carry ammo:

1. Shoot all the factory carry ammo through the pistol every 6 months or so and replace with new.

2. Reload a bunch of “factory recipe” ammo to practice with out of the same pistol.

The unwritten rules are: practice as much as you can afford to (easy), be smart and never get into a situation that requires you to need a gun, run if you can, and if it comes to it: shot placement is everything.
 
I agree that the "extra deadly bullets" theory might be a chimera. The real issue for me having the forensic examiners be able to corroborate my statements with gun shot residue and other forensic evidence. With factory rounds, the examiners can use my pistol and reference rounds and determine the distance my muzzle was from the assailant, etc. With my reloads, the examiners MAY be able to testify as to the remaining cartridges in the gun, but it will always be open to doubt about the actual cartridge(s) I fired.

This is the conversation I fear:

Attorney: Mr. Forensic Examiner, can you firmly determine the distance the defendant was away from the deceased?

Forensic Examiner: Between 15 and 75 feet.

Attorney: Can you narrow it down any further than that?

Forensic Examiner: No.

The determination as to whether your use of force was reasonable, and therefore lawful, will hinge on the gravity of the threat. The gravity of the threat, for melee weapons, will be determined on how close the threat was.

-John
 
I've always bought into the argument about if you carry factory made JHPs, you could avoid a potential court issue. As time has passed, I've read more, thought about the actual advertisements for factory JHPs, I have come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter. I have yet to hear/read about ANY shooting that hand loads had any bearing on the court case. I have a decent supply of factory JHP carry ammo that is dwindling as I shoot it because now that I have been reloading for a bit, I'll start reloading carry ammo. I have real good supply of Precision Delta 124gr JHPs, yes, I agree they probably don't expand as well as the expensive stuff, they DO expand, (I 'popped' a couple into my pool), I had stashed a bunch for SHTF times, "during SHTF times, who cares about lawyers, courts?" My concern now is matching the factory ammo's performance, that's what I have a chronograph for, I can buy Hornady/Speer/Winchester/Barnes projectiles. I'm testing some Hornady 147gr XTP loads now, one more test and I think I'll have my final 'recipe'. This is fun, "but honey, I have to go to the range to test some new reloads for OUR protection" to which she replies, "when do I get to test?"
 
I have read countless threads, posts and advise from "experts" over the years and I always come up with the same question that I cannot seen to find the answer to. " How will the police/attorneys find out I used reloaded ammo". I have never asked the shooter if he/she used reloads when I made the scene of a shooting. Maybe I should start asking, but my main focous is whether it was a good shoot, or if the actor acted with criminal intent.

I have heard it said that "the police will test the remainding ammo". They may do so in a questionable shoot where the distance becomes an issue. But not likely if there is no indication of foul play. Of all the shootings I made the scene on as a LE officer, never have we gotten the remaining ammo tested for a burn pattern. The only times that I can recall it's presence even being noted in the report was in the case of sucides with a firearm. In general I look at it as an indication for the need to dig deeper, not as sole evidence. Gunshot to head, no residue near wound = start looking deeper.

There is a difference in the manner an incident is investigated if you just shot a would be robber, compared to your spouse or their lover(s) ending up mysteriously killed. The latter is where ballistics comes into play and investigators are already looking deeper, so be perpared. The presence of a motive is far worse than the presence of reloads. Remeber Shall Guilt not Escape Nor Innocence Suffer.

There are no holds barred on the civil side. Doent trust anyone and dont volunteer anything. Most likely your attorney plays golf with the other parties attorney and has lunch with the area criminal prosecutor.
 
Last edited:
I don't simply because I haven't made it to that point. I've made only about 500 rounds of 9mm so far. All have worked properly, except my first 20 rounds that where loaded fairly light.
 
I carry factory.

I don't worry about how much factory SD ammo costs, I only need a box or two.
 
My SD rounds are hand loads in all calibers including .32, .38 Special, 9mm, and soon .380. I shoot what I reload at the range and carry the same for SD. I have a lot of faith having shot thousands of my reloads and tested them in various media as well as paying to have the performance verified by ballistics testing by professionals.

I personally like to see hundreds of rounds go "bang" without failure and like to see those rounds hit what they are shot at before I trust my life to them....doing it with factory/premium ammunition would cost a lot of money. This does not really bother me except that I'm getting performance I'm willing to stake my life on with my hand loads so why spend money better used for other things within the shooting sports?

Like paying for professional ballistics testing. ;)

I have no opinion about the whole liability in court thing. I'm always looking to be enlightened by seeing actual cases where people were actually convicted with these kinds of tactics. I'll take my chances - if asked why I used my hand loaded ammunition I'll say I have only shot reloads for quite some time and if needed they can test the ammunition to decide if I have deliberately made someone attack me so I could shoot them with my "special" bullets.

I try not to get all worked up about what "could" happen. Anything could happen and little surprises me anymore. I tend to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

VooDoo
 
I live in northern California and can state you're flat out wrong. In fact, about a month ago a pot growing convicted felon with over 100 pounds of illegal MJ, shot and killed outside his home, a person he suspected of attempting to pull off a home invasion with a fake gun he took for real. He's being charged with the MJ and felon w/ weapon crime, but is not being charged with the shooting incident.

Despite popular opinion about how anti's rule this state on a political level, they do not rule the courtroom and our legal process is as fair or corrupt as anywhere else. We have castle doctrine, etc.

As far as carrying reloads, I don't load for self defense. In my home I'm loaded with what I use at the range, never intending to see a confrontation. ;)

John C said:
I don't think so. Notice that Codefour is in Northern California, and you're in Texas. Codefour may well be in San Francisco or Alameda County, two places where there is NO doubt in my mind you would face extreme legal jeopardy for any self defense shooting, not to mention with reloads.


-John
Click to expand...
 
NWcityguy2 said:
I did carry reloads but then I became LE. Now I carry only department approved ammo so if I get into a shoot I won't be found out of policy.
Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat. I know that it is my personal carry piece but I don't want to take the chance. Department rules are really funny. We are encouraged to always carry, on duty or not. That is really my hangup. Since me being a LEO would definitely come up in court, even if the shooting happened off duty, I only carry the loads that I qualify with.
 
As for one of the statements in the OP, don't carry FMJ ammo because that's what you can afford to practice with.

Just find a low cost, FMJ or even cast lead bullet that has a similar POI to your carry ammo. That's all you need is something that shoots to the same point of impact. FMJ is not ideal for SD and I certainly wouldn't carry it out and about unless I was using a small caliber, which I wouldn't do.
 
I have been reading about people saying don't use FMJ for self defense due to over penetration. When I brought this conversation up at the range, the topic changed to "what about wadcutters". Then another mentioned about using trail boss to make sure the loads don't over penetrate. I just thought the conversation was interesting but not sure I would consider this route.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

R
  • Locked
Basic reloading price?
Replies
9
Views
875
scrat
S
T
  • Locked
Reloading vs Factory Pricing
Replies
5
Views
510
Wedge
W
S
What reloading components have you overbought?
2 3
Replies
62
Views
1K
Dudedog
Dudedog
S
  • Locked
Do you reload your own SD ammo?
2 3 4
Replies
80
Views
3K
Cosmoline
C
LiveLife
  • Locked
  • Poll
Why do you reload?
2
Replies
44
Views
2K
mgmorden
mgmorden
Back
Top