How many of you carry reloads in your SD guns?

[NWcityguy2]

I have been reading about people saying don't use FMJ for self defense due to over penetration. When I brought this conversation up at the range, the topic changed to "what about wadcutters". Then another mentioned about using trail boss to make sure the loads don't over penetrate. I just thought the conversation was interesting but not sure I would consider this route.

Wadcutters are from a different time, before one could get reliable expansion and penetration out of a 38spl J frame. Some people still use them but I wouldn't. The Good/Better/Best argument has changed over the years.

As far as using trail boss let me see if I understand the logic. If a person wants to use a less effective bullet, they should also use a less effective powder. That way they might not have a problem that they are worrying about because they are using a less effective bullet. I'd pass if it were me.

 

[celem]

Lead Reloads For Self Defense
There is a thread on this topic in another forum.

One post was especially interesting to me. It talks about Backwards Loaded HBWC Bullets. I still have some for 38 special that were given to me by a friend back around 1980. He gave them to me as self defense rounds. I forgot all about them.

My takeaway is that a lead bullet is better than a RN FMJ but a +P jacketed hollow point is best.

http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=27912.0
Or
http://tinyurl.com/m352525

 

[gonoles_1980]

I document every batch of bullets I make, load, bullet type and weight. I don't know if my quality control is better than Federal, but so far the only squib I've had was with a factory RUAG 357 round. I do know I quadruple check each round I make. Once pulling it out of the press, twice before I put seat the bullet, and once as as I put it in the press to seat the bullet. Though for the gun by the night stand, I have the 357 loaded with Hornady 38 hollow points.

 

[John C]

I live in northern California and can state you're flat out wrong. In fact, about a month ago a pot growing convicted felon with over 100 pounds of illegal MJ, shot and killed outside his home, a person he suspected of attempting to pull off a home invasion with a fake gun he took for real. He's being charged with the MJ and felon w/ weapon crime, but is not being charged with the shooting incident.

Despite popular opinion about how anti's rule this state on a political level, they do not rule the courtroom and our legal process is as fair or corrupt as anywhere else. We have castle doctrine, etc.

As far as carrying reloads, I don't load for self defense. In my home I'm loaded with what I use at the range, never intending to see a confrontation.

Art;

Obviously the shooter was using factory ammo, otherwise he would have been hung out to dry!

This shooting also probably happened outside of the liberal Bay Area (100 lbs of weed). Humboldt or Mendocino's judicial systems are much more "traditional" than Alameda county or San Francisco.

I'm not denying that clean shoots are clean shoots. All things considered, the shooter in this did pretty well. The point I'm trying to make is that if the circumstances of the shooting are even a little bit muddy, hand loads just add to it.

Another poster, a retired leo, mentioned that in all the shootings he investigated, the type of ammo never came up. My guess is that most of those shootings were crimes, or straight up SD. "Yep, old Johnson caught his old lady in bed with his best friend, and capped 'email both." Hand loads don't play a factor.

If the issue is a road rage incident, and you get forced off the road and accosted with a tire iron, hand loads will play a factor. Are you the aggressor? How angry were you when you pulled the trigger? Is a tire iron really a threat at 50 feet? Wait, you say it was 15 feet? Can you prove that?

Where I live, there could easily be a political element to an SD shooting. What happens when the marchers start demanding your arrest?

All of this is speculative on my part, but real concerns. I try to keep my stuff tight, to avoid issues.

This is a good debate.

-John

 

[kelbro]

I think that many watch WAY too much TV and think that every crime gets a full CSI investigation. Those tests cost money. Big money.

 

[limpingbear]

Currently I have factory Winchester silvertips in my 357 nightstand gun and have Hornandy critical defence rounds in my 9mm. The silvertips I have had for years and I got the critical defence round cheap. That being said I would have no problem carrying reload in a defence gun. in doing a little research on it, there are no laws that pop up saying that reloads are illegal, and I cannot find any court cases where someone was prosecuted for using reloads.

 

[rclark]

Yes. Of course. Shoot what I load, and load what I shoot. .44Spec is my CC caliber. Simple 240g SWC is the bullet.

 

[codefour]

Long post, but read..

Ok, here is the simple truth of the matter.. Have any of you been to Federal court.? Have any of you been sued in Fedral court, seriously..?

RusssellC, what kind of attorney are you.? Have you ever been to a "use of force" case in Federal court? Russell C have you ever defended a client in Federal court?

When you are sued in Federal court, the first thing you have to do is disclose ALL of your assets and possible FUTURE earnings at the beginning of the trial.. It is a nightmare to tell a jury of eight people (that you have never seen before) what you own and/or may own. The Federal courts want to establish what monies and property you have so you can possilby surrender them. This is the first thing you must do. It is humiliating. The rules for Federal court and your local Supreme court are quite different. It is a whole different ball game.

And yes, my first post is a very brief description of the questions you will be asked on the stand.

Remember the Zimmerman case? Imagine if it was discovered Zimmerman used reloaded ammunition.? Look at how they tried to hang that man that was only defending himself. We know he did nothing wrong. But imagine if the media found out he was hypotheically using reloaded ammunition..?? That would be a black eye to the reloaders of our nation. This was in fairly conservative Florida with "Stand Your Ground" laws. So if you are smart, you will dismiss the whole, " I am in Texas so it does not matter."

Comrade Mike, you asked why take the stand anyway? What if you are ordered to by the state or Feds.? You can plead the Fifth, but it would look bad.... Real bad..

I read many posts of, "my reloads are better than factory." I do not find this accurate. If factory ammunition is so bad, why do all law enforcement agencies carry factory ammunition? Should officers or their agencies reload their own ammunition? They will refuse because they do not have the expertise of the manufacturers that pay high-dollars to experts. Think about it? When have you ever heard of a law enforcement officer having a bad round. The quality control on LE quality factory ammunition is phenominal. Yet, it is also available to the public.

Our Second Amendment has been attacked vehemently.!! Why throw gas on the fire, to save $25.00, or your pride? This is not hunting game. The deer's family is not going to sue you with the ACLU behind them trying to make a political point in Federal court.....

I am giving the negative example of what could happen. And it will if a case goes national with you using reloaded ammunition But why risk it.?? Buy a box of good, factory ammunition and reduce the risk..?

 

[TroyUT]

My personal opinion is that if it ever comes down to me having to shoot somebody, whether or not the ammo I used was a reload or not would be the last thing on my mind. Also for those who say "wait till the media finds out you had reloads" well I figure 95% of the public (and media) have no idea what a reload even is.

 

[joneb]

I mostly carry with my reloads, they are as reliable as factory. I can't afford to practice with factory ammo, I prefer to carry with what I practice with.
I can custom load ammo for me and my gun, I can't get that with factory ammo.
I load all of my ammunition as if my life may depend on it.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=402098

 

[9mmfan]

Carry? Only in my woods guns. My "town guns" are loaded with factory HPs. This isn't because of legal reasoning, it's simply because I had a fair amount of defensive ammo on hand before I started learning to reload.

That and I don't reload 9mm at the moment.

I do have one in the safe that has some reloads in it. It's a 4" S&W .38 M&P from 1920. Some 158 grain LSWC over a conservative load of Unique.

I don't recall if my single actions (the aforementioned woods guns) have reloads or factory in them at the moment.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I am giving the negative example of what could happen. And it will if a case goes national with you using reloaded ammunition But why risk it.?? Buy a box of good, factory ammunition and reduce the risk..?

I appreciate your advice and opinion and I read your post. Thank You. I will continue to carry what I load for SD as it is better for me, in my situation. I trust it will do what I want at a higher level than factory ammunition and it is tried and true, every round. If it goes bad for me if I have to shoot in SD I will remember that you warned me and acknowledge that I have only myself and my conduct to blame for my misery and predicament.

VooDoo

 

[grubbylabs]

Like was posted above? How are they really going to know? I know quite a few cops, meat lots more, and in some ways it kinda surprises me that so many are not gun people. They would not know a reload from a factory load if two were side by side.

And again when was the last time some one had legal issues over it? It seems to have never happened.

I believe it boils down to circumstances and luck of the draw. If you wind up in a Zimmerman type situation your hosed any way, he got off by the skin of his teeth. Any more if your the wrong color and you defend your self against a minority and the media has a slow day your hosed just like Zimmerman is.

 

[steve4102]

Remember the Zimmerman case? Imagine if it was discovered Zimmerman used reloaded ammunition.?

I can imagine, nothing, as with every other SD case across the Country.

If you are worried about prosecution based on your choice of ammo, take a look at actual cases.

There are none,zero, cases where Handloaded ammo was a Factor in a Self Defense shooting.

There are cases however, where Factory Ammo was indeed a factor in a SD shooting , specifically the use of a Factory Hollow Point bullet. Look up Harold Fish.
He was convicted and jury interviews showed that the Hollow Point Bullet used weighed heavily on their decision to convict.

 

[osteodoc08]

I marked no, but that's only 1/2 true. For HD, I use commercially loaded ammo, mostly because I can't find the projectile I want to reload as its either sold out or not available.

For woods walking, I only carry reloads. Mostly lead boolits. In my G20 I carry 200gr XTPs I bought a bunch of a few years back and am going through the stock. Will add back to it when available.

 

[10 Spot Terminator]

I use handloads in my .38 special revolver but they are cast not FMJ . I was able to obtain higher ( +P ) velocities of 962 fps behind a hollowpointed version of the Lyman 358429 bullet weighing in at 164 grs . They are cast at 10 BHN and open up very reliably up to 50 yds. and are very accurate . The nay sayers would say the .38 special is too little for self defense but I wouldnt want to be on the receiving end of one of these "little" jewels .

 

[Mohave-Tec]

Less 22 or shotshell, I don't own any store-bought ammo.

 

[zeke]

As others have noted, I carry handloads, not reloads. Hornady critical duty may change that, after I try some.

 

[GBExpat]

As others have noted, I carry handloads, not reloads.

"handloads" = new, unused brass?

 

[Lennyjoe]

Not sure it matters, given the amount of responses but yes, I carry reloads in my guns.

Also, FMJ is NOT my preferred bullet for SD.

 

[RussellC]

Long post, but read..

Ok, here is the simple truth of the matter.. Have any of you been to Federal court.? Have any of you been sued in Fedral court, seriously..?

RusssellC, what kind of attorney are you.? Have you ever been to a "use of force" case in Federal court? Russell C have you ever defended a client in Federal court?

When you are sued in Federal court, the first thing you have to do is disclose ALL of your assets and possible FUTURE earnings at the beginning of the trial.. It is a nightmare to tell a jury of eight people (that you have never seen before) what you own and/or may own. The Federal courts want to establish what monies and property you have so you can possilby surrender them. This is the first thing you must do. It is humiliating. The rules for Federal court and your local Supreme court are quite different. It is a whole different ball game.

And yes, my first post is a very brief description of the questions you will be asked on the stand.

Remember the Zimmerman case? Imagine if it was discovered Zimmerman used reloaded ammunition.? Look at how they tried to hang that man that was only defending himself. We know he did nothing wrong. But imagine if the media found out he was hypotheically using reloaded ammunition..?? That would be a black eye to the reloaders of our nation. This was in fairly conservative Florida with "Stand Your Ground" laws. So if you are smart, you will dismiss the whole, " I am in Texas so it does not matter."

Comrade Mike, you asked why take the stand anyway? What if you are ordered to by the state or Feds.? You can plead the Fifth, but it would look bad.... Real bad..

I read many posts of, "my reloads are better than factory." I do not find this accurate. If factory ammunition is so bad, why do all law enforcement agencies carry factory ammunition? Should officers or their agencies reload their own ammunition? They will refuse because they do not have the expertise of the manufacturers that pay high-dollars to experts. Think about it? When have you ever heard of a law enforcement officer having a bad round. The quality control on LE quality factory ammunition is phenominal. Yet, it is also available to the public.

Our Second Amendment has been attacked vehemently.!! Why throw gas on the fire, to save $25.00, or your pride? This is not hunting game. The deer's family is not going to sue you with the ACLU behind them trying to make a political point in Federal court.....

I am giving the negative example of what could happen. And it will if a case goes national with you using reloaded ammunition But why risk it.?? Buy a box of good, factory ammunition and reduce the risk..?

Criminal. Crimes of this sort are not filed in Federal Court, they are filed in State Court. Yes, recently sued in Federal Court for 1.2 million....they got nothing, I never even had to appear. Clearly, you have no idea what you are talking about. Possibly a civil rights action could. How many have you tried? Yeah, thats what I thought.

 

[RussellC]

I can imagine, nothing, as with every other SD case across the Country.

If you are worried about prosecution based on your choice of ammo, take a look at actual cases.

There are none,zero, cases where Handloaded ammo was a Factor in a Self Defense shooting.

There are cases however, where Factory Ammo was indeed a factor in a SD shooting , specifically the use of a Factory Hollow Point bullet. Look up Harold Fish.
He was convicted and jury interviews showed that the Hollow Point Bullet used weighed heavily on their decision to convict.

+1 Absolutely correct. In defense situations, your ammo isnt going to matter.

 

[joneb]

I carry a Ruger Security Six while hiking, this maybe handloaded with a 180ish gr GC cast bullet wide metplate or a Hornady 180gr XTP with a near max charge of 2400. While these loads have a four legged threat in mind they would drop a two legged one just the same.
"Aim small miss small" the Patriot.

 

[Crashbox]

I do not carry my reloads, although I have some "Private Reserve" Hornady .357 110 XTP's loaded with 19.5 grains of 2400 in case I choose to (the bullets are from the 1000 freebies I got when I bought my LnL AP).

 

[Nordeste]

Regarding gun shot residue... I'm no expert in ballistics or forensics, however, I work in LE and have friends who have this kind of knowledge, so I will ask them and try to corroborate what I'm about to say. To my little knowledge in the matter, the powder used in regular handgun ammo leaves residue on whatever is shot up to a distance of six feet, maximum. I guess a slower powder will leave a bit more residue, but, again, I don't think the difference would be remarkable.