How secure is FFL purchase?

[doctorhumbert]

Hos secure is FFL purchase?

How much does government know, if any, when I purchase a firearm? When I fill out that yellow sheet, the dealer tell me that it's strictly for their record, and govt does not know that you bought that gun until they have a reason to prove into that purchase. Is this 100% true? Do they really keep that record secure? Also when they dial someone (I suppose FBI or ATF) to do instant background check, do 'they' keep record of the transaction of what and how many is being bought by me? I am not paranoid (ok, may be I am), and have nothing fear since I have not broke any laws. I just wanna know how secure these 'legal transactioins' are.

 

[Hal]

How much does government know, if any, when I purchase a firearm

- They know you bought one or at the very least, that you tried to buy one, your name, your address, your date of birth, your SS number (if you put it on the 4473), your state of birth. (phone # - I can't for the life of me remember??) - - - if and when they decide to look at the 4473's.

- The 4473's are permanant records that the FFL has to turn over to the feds if they ever go out of business.

- You post on a gun forum so if they want some proof or clue as to what you like (guns), it ain't rocket science to deduce you may have one or more, or at the very least, show an interest in getting one (or more) - - or your screen name is Agricola and you just like to yank the Yanks' yanks

- Even if you don't buy a gun,,,prior to '68,,pretty much the same info was recorded for ammo purchases,,,being an old fart myself and buying ammo in those days,,and having quite a few of those business go under and have to surrender the records to the feds,,,they could pretty much deduce I had a firearm or 2 tostuff that ammo into.

- Even without the documentation - if "they" suspect you (or me) of being a gun owner, all they have to do is watch me for a week or so. Eventually, most of us end up at a gun show, a range, a gun store,,,or buy ammo or targets or cleaning supplies,,etc.

-- -- Most of the above is really a lot of work. There's far easier pickings in places like NJ, NYC, MD and the like for the time being to keep em busy.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

The forms must be handed over to ATF if the FFL goes out of business, so they essentially last forever. Technically, they are only used to do a "forward trace." This is where the police have a gun/serial number and contact the manufacturer. The manufacturer tells them the wholesaler, who tells them the dealer, who checks his records and gives them your name and address if you purchased the gun they are looking for.

This is why it is important that if you live in a state that allows private firearm transactions between civilians, you keep good records of guns that you sell in this manner.

 

[Telperion]

Does anyone what happens to those 4473s when they are turned over the BATF? Digitally scanned and stored forever and ever, or are they under some requirement to destroy them?

I think the 20-year retention requirement coupled with the requirement to surrender the forms upon sale or close of business virtually guarantees all 4473s will end up in the hands of the Feds. It's a known fact that most small businesses fail, and those that survive will likely be sold when the owner retires or decides to move on to other things.

 

[AZTOY]

I would like to know is.

When the gun store calls in your name to the to do instant background check does the computer at ATF, keeps count of how many times your name is looked up ?

 

[doctorhumbert]

Hmm. Interesting. I always thought it was a discreet matter. I like to have a definite answer. It's something we deserve to know.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

When the gun store calls in your name to the to do instant background check does the computer at ATF, keeps count of how many times your name is looked up ?

The instant check does not go to ATF. Each state has their own way of handling the instant check and what happens to the information collected depends on where you live.

In Florida, the checks are handled by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. By law, the FDLE is prohibited from giving this information to any other person or agency. They are required to destroy these records "forthwith" after informing the FFL of the results and all records must have been destroyed within 48 hours of the response. It is considered a felony if they violate this regulation.

The FDLE may keep statistics on these transactions, such as number of requests, date of requests, number of approvals and denials, etc.

 

[doctorhumbert]

By law, the FDLE is prohibited from giving this information to any other person or agency.

I wonder how they found about this guy.
'A visit from ATF'

 

[Hkmp5sd]

I wonder how they found about this guy.

Off hand, I would say it was not the instant check that got ATF's attention. The guy admits to buying several firearms in a short period of time. If he bought them from the same FFL, that FFL reported the multiple purchases to ATF. The guy also lives in Columbus, Ohio. Columbus requires a "weapon transaction permit" for every firearm transaction. Even if the guy didn't buy the guns from the same dealer, the locals were aware of his multiple purchases and could have informed ATF.