poor_richard
Member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2006
- Messages
- 466
Levels of contact are as follows:
Voluntary.
This is when an officer may stop you, but not detain you. He’s just conducting an investigation at this point, and you may freely leave at any time. This is sometimes called an "investigatory stop", or "interview". It's a good time to ask if your being detained, and if your free to leave, because the purpose of the investigation is to discover if you've committed a crime.
Detainment.
At this point the officer is detaining you. He must have RS (covered above) to do so. This level of interaction can be ambiguous, but it commonly accepted (I believe the courts have ruled on this) that, “you are being detained if a “reasonable person” in the same situation would feel that they were not free to leave.” If they take your drivers license, your being detained. If they take your carry license, your being detained. If seize your gun for officer safety, your being detained. That is why it’s so important to ask the officer for suspicion of what crime he is detaining you for, and to also ask what his RS is. It’s also why it’s a good reason to keep asking if your free to go. If they don’t allow you to leave, your being detained.
Reasonable Suspicion can be many things, but it basically hinges upon if there is something a reasonable person would believe that gives suspicion of a crime afoot. The officer must be able to articulate this. Chances are (unless inadvertent exposure of your handgun is illegal), that carrying a gun is not RS since it’s perfectly legal in your area. Carrying a gun is not a crime in and of itself. Now, say you were seen carrying a gun outside a stop N’ rob, and acting a way that appeared to be casing the place in preparation of a crime. One might conclude that your actions were suspicious, even without the gun present. Where legal, the gun in and of itself cannot equate to RS. There must be something else in addition to the presence of a gun to arouse reasonable suspicion. This may/will also depend upon the laws in your location/jurisdiction.
Something else to note, is that if the officer detains you without RS, anything he finds after that will be inadmissible in court (that’s why most of those OC detainments are more often than not just plain harassment). Remember, the officer must have RS to detain you. Without that RS, the detainment is illegal. Anything found subsequent to that illegal detainment will be thrown out. It’s just like them searching your house while your gone without probable cause or a warrant (barring the unPatriot Act). Anything they find is inadmissible.
Also, people have asked if there is a time limit for being detained. That's a good question (don't forget to start timing the even as soon as the officer makes contact. That means as soon as you see flashing lights when driving). I don't have the ruling to cite, but it's about 20 minutes. Anything longer, and the officer should arrest you or let you go. That doesn't mean that you pull out your stop watch and tell the officer that his time is up. It means that you make a note of the time, and give that information to your lawyer when you speak to him. It also means that you make sure to time it. Don't guess it because it's a natural occurrence to stretch the time when under stress. It's much better to say, "I started my stop watch on my wrist as soon as the officer stopped me".
Arrest:
While I‘m not positive on knowing exactly when this occurs, I think it‘s safe to say that if your in the squad car going to the station in cuffs, against your will, then your probably under arrest. I know that the good officer who lectured our eighth grade class told us that, “if the officer puts the handcuffs on on you, then your under arrest“. However I don‘t think that‘s the case everywhere, so I‘m not real sure how to specifically classify “arrest“. I do know that what some don’t seem to understand is the difference between requirements for “arrest”, and “detained”. For an officer to arrest you, he needs “Probable Cause”. Probable Cause means that the officer actually can prove that you committed a crime. If he sees marijuana in your car, that’s a crime, and he’ll have PC to arrest. If he observes you beating your wife, that’s a crime, and he can arrest your. I’m sure there are other examples, but IANAL.
Voluntary.
This is when an officer may stop you, but not detain you. He’s just conducting an investigation at this point, and you may freely leave at any time. This is sometimes called an "investigatory stop", or "interview". It's a good time to ask if your being detained, and if your free to leave, because the purpose of the investigation is to discover if you've committed a crime.
Detainment.
At this point the officer is detaining you. He must have RS (covered above) to do so. This level of interaction can be ambiguous, but it commonly accepted (I believe the courts have ruled on this) that, “you are being detained if a “reasonable person” in the same situation would feel that they were not free to leave.” If they take your drivers license, your being detained. If they take your carry license, your being detained. If seize your gun for officer safety, your being detained. That is why it’s so important to ask the officer for suspicion of what crime he is detaining you for, and to also ask what his RS is. It’s also why it’s a good reason to keep asking if your free to go. If they don’t allow you to leave, your being detained.
Reasonable Suspicion can be many things, but it basically hinges upon if there is something a reasonable person would believe that gives suspicion of a crime afoot. The officer must be able to articulate this. Chances are (unless inadvertent exposure of your handgun is illegal), that carrying a gun is not RS since it’s perfectly legal in your area. Carrying a gun is not a crime in and of itself. Now, say you were seen carrying a gun outside a stop N’ rob, and acting a way that appeared to be casing the place in preparation of a crime. One might conclude that your actions were suspicious, even without the gun present. Where legal, the gun in and of itself cannot equate to RS. There must be something else in addition to the presence of a gun to arouse reasonable suspicion. This may/will also depend upon the laws in your location/jurisdiction.
Something else to note, is that if the officer detains you without RS, anything he finds after that will be inadmissible in court (that’s why most of those OC detainments are more often than not just plain harassment). Remember, the officer must have RS to detain you. Without that RS, the detainment is illegal. Anything found subsequent to that illegal detainment will be thrown out. It’s just like them searching your house while your gone without probable cause or a warrant (barring the unPatriot Act). Anything they find is inadmissible.
Also, people have asked if there is a time limit for being detained. That's a good question (don't forget to start timing the even as soon as the officer makes contact. That means as soon as you see flashing lights when driving). I don't have the ruling to cite, but it's about 20 minutes. Anything longer, and the officer should arrest you or let you go. That doesn't mean that you pull out your stop watch and tell the officer that his time is up. It means that you make a note of the time, and give that information to your lawyer when you speak to him. It also means that you make sure to time it. Don't guess it because it's a natural occurrence to stretch the time when under stress. It's much better to say, "I started my stop watch on my wrist as soon as the officer stopped me".
Arrest:
While I‘m not positive on knowing exactly when this occurs, I think it‘s safe to say that if your in the squad car going to the station in cuffs, against your will, then your probably under arrest. I know that the good officer who lectured our eighth grade class told us that, “if the officer puts the handcuffs on on you, then your under arrest“. However I don‘t think that‘s the case everywhere, so I‘m not real sure how to specifically classify “arrest“. I do know that what some don’t seem to understand is the difference between requirements for “arrest”, and “detained”. For an officer to arrest you, he needs “Probable Cause”. Probable Cause means that the officer actually can prove that you committed a crime. If he sees marijuana in your car, that’s a crime, and he’ll have PC to arrest. If he observes you beating your wife, that’s a crime, and he can arrest your. I’m sure there are other examples, but IANAL.
