Furncliff
Member
What GEM said. I could type a bunch-a stuff in here, but GEM nailed it .
How to argue with an anti-gun parent?
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30-06 lover
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With some people, you just have to agree to disagree. I would not make any "argument" (in the true sense of the word, not the fight sense) with a family member that has any firm political belief. I would make a simple statement and let it be. "I know you don't believe that owning a gun is a good idea, but I believe differently. I own guns, and I will continue to own and use them. I am an adult and I have made the adult decision to take on the responsibility of gun ownership." Then never bring it up again and don't let yourself get drawn into an argument.
Officers'Wife
Member
I would have to ask him if that mean the basic lessons and mores he taught me over the years was useless because as an individual my behaviors cannot be kept in line.
In my experience, there are three types of anti-gunners.
The first kind have a political agenda and are informed with a counter argument to every pro gun argument. Don't waste your time trying to convince them. Their opposition to guns is driven by their ego.
The second have an irrational fear of guns, perhaps because of a bad experience.
The third are misinformed and simply repeat the asinine arguments of the media such as, "you are more likely to be shot with your own gun, than use it against an intruder."
The second and third cases can be converted because their views on guns are not driven by an ultra ego which is what normally drives those with a political agenda. Invite them to the range to fire-off a few rounds. They may like it and realize that guns not all that bad.
With regards to your parents, it seems they fall in the second and third category, so you may still win them over with logical arguments. If you don't, stop arguing the point. It is not worth to have a contentious relationship with your folks because of a gun. Own the gun, train yourself, and keep it a private matter.
The first kind have a political agenda and are informed with a counter argument to every pro gun argument. Don't waste your time trying to convince them. Their opposition to guns is driven by their ego.
The second have an irrational fear of guns, perhaps because of a bad experience.
The third are misinformed and simply repeat the asinine arguments of the media such as, "you are more likely to be shot with your own gun, than use it against an intruder."
The second and third cases can be converted because their views on guns are not driven by an ultra ego which is what normally drives those with a political agenda. Invite them to the range to fire-off a few rounds. They may like it and realize that guns not all that bad.
With regards to your parents, it seems they fall in the second and third category, so you may still win them over with logical arguments. If you don't, stop arguing the point. It is not worth to have a contentious relationship with your folks because of a gun. Own the gun, train yourself, and keep it a private matter.
KINGMAX
Member
Are you living in your fathers home?
If you reside in your parents house, respect them. End of debate.
If you reside in your parents house, respect them. End of debate.
I don't argue with anyone about it. I have my rights.
My kids don't agree with my carrying. They don't like going to the range with me even though I have tried to interest them in shooting.
When I die they'll inherit the guns and can dispose of them if they wish.
My kids don't agree with my carrying. They don't like going to the range with me even though I have tried to interest them in shooting.
When I die they'll inherit the guns and can dispose of them if they wish.
Big45
member
Say: Dad go sit in your chair, Mom go fix me chicken pot pie
Dr. Peter Venkman
Member
KingMax said:
Respect is to be earned, not given. Parental status is not always a qualifying factor. If your views on guns don't match up, that's fine. Just be courteous. I imagine that they will learn to live with it.
Treo
member
GEM nailed it. It's not worth arguing a fight you'll never win let it go
Why don't you just move out of the house and buy all of the guns you want? Your parents know nothing about guns, and chances are you will not be able to change their minds. It is a religion like any other. I suggest you disprove their crackpot theories by moving out, being a gun owner, and staying out of trouble.
hopelessjoe
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Ummm....
The simple fact is that some of us have family that think with emotion and are just plain stupid when it comes to logic...
and then some of us are just going to be the black sheep and we should relish that role...
someone has to fill it...
I got disowned by my father because I wouldn't fall into the bliss ninny sheeple lockstep that the rest of my family adheres to...
Now ask me if I really care...I promised not to help any of them with my evil guns if the need should arise....
And if they wish to destroy them? You won't care because you'll be dead, but what about the fact that someone still living could really use those guns?
If my kids were antis I would never leave it up to them to decide what happens to the guns.
Alter your will so that a friend who can be trusted with keeping your guns alive will be able to do so...
First step...The kids don't get the combo to the safe.
The simple fact is that some of us have family that think with emotion and are just plain stupid when it comes to logic...
and then some of us are just going to be the black sheep and we should relish that role...
someone has to fill it...
I got disowned by my father because I wouldn't fall into the bliss ninny sheeple lockstep that the rest of my family adheres to...
Now ask me if I really care...I promised not to help any of them with my evil guns if the need should arise....
And if they wish to destroy them? You won't care because you'll be dead, but what about the fact that someone still living could really use those guns?
If my kids were antis I would never leave it up to them to decide what happens to the guns.
Alter your will so that a friend who can be trusted with keeping your guns alive will be able to do so...
First step...The kids don't get the combo to the safe.
Harve Curry
Member
How to argue with an anti-gun parent?
Books. Buy some good books on the topic and give a copy to your parents. A good one to start with is "Second Amendment Primer" by Les Adams. Palladium Press. A google or ebay search will show results. A verbal argument with your parents probably won't go anywhere but hard feelings. So don't do that.
Books. Buy some good books on the topic and give a copy to your parents. A good one to start with is "Second Amendment Primer" by Les Adams. Palladium Press. A google or ebay search will show results. A verbal argument with your parents probably won't go anywhere but hard feelings. So don't do that.
Hoplophile
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The closest I ever got from my anti-gun family was "I wish you didn't own one, but I support your right to.".
Whatever you do, stay cool. Heated arguments are counterproductive. You need to show them that you aren't a powder keg.
And it isn't worth damaging your relationship to prove that you are right.
Find things that you can agree with them about. He says "that people are basically fundamentally irrational, irresponsible, emotional powderkegs who can’t be trusted with weapons." Tell him you agree that there are a lot of people that fit that description in the world, but the fact is that they already have weapons. That may be the reason that you feel the responsible thing to do is to take steps to be able to protect yourself.
And it isn't worth damaging your relationship to prove that you are right.
Find things that you can agree with them about. He says "that people are basically fundamentally irrational, irresponsible, emotional powderkegs who can’t be trusted with weapons." Tell him you agree that there are a lot of people that fit that description in the world, but the fact is that they already have weapons. That may be the reason that you feel the responsible thing to do is to take steps to be able to protect yourself.
I hate to say it, but don't bother arguing with them. Some people's minds cannot be changed, no matter how logical your argument is. That's the difference between the pro-gun and informed anti-gun crowds. When presented with the facts, they still cannot admit they're wrong, because their argument is an emotional one.
Just vote for logical people and support what you know makes sense. Don't damage your relationship with your parents with an argument you can't win (not because you're not right, just because they'll never admit they're wrong). Remember, they have an emotional point of view on this subject, and any argument will probably be taken as an attack on their personal beliefs. It's like trying to convince a devout Christian that God doesn't exist (just an example, not trying to offend anyone here).
Just vote for logical people and support what you know makes sense. Don't damage your relationship with your parents with an argument you can't win (not because you're not right, just because they'll never admit they're wrong). Remember, they have an emotional point of view on this subject, and any argument will probably be taken as an attack on their personal beliefs. It's like trying to convince a devout Christian that God doesn't exist (just an example, not trying to offend anyone here).
bdickens
Member
Before I read the whole thread, I'm going to answer the question of How to argue with an anti-gun parent with one word: don't.
No offense to your parents, but in general:
It is hard to argue LOGIC with an IRRATIONAL person.
THe only way I know to effectively argue/debate is to use their own points against them, but also be able to defend your own.
for Civilians: basically you can argue there will always be irresponsible/unlawful people regardless of the law, and there will be those who are responsible/lawfull. Any reason for the majority of lawful citizens to suffer due to the minority of unluful. Do your parents have any issues with ALCOHOL, DRIVING, or dare I say ABORTION, all issues of responsibility? Should we revisit PROHIBITION or limit driving? Have them read some of the ARMED CITIZEN articles, you can even show them articles in your state that never make the news.
For LE: You have to point out that they too have accidents regardless of traing and bad cops/corrupt government who misuse/abuse their power. Just read an article at policlink.com of mistaken identity in which officer fatally shot homeowner in his yard with his pregnant newlywed wife inside. Also read up on such cases as WACO and RUBY RIDGE.
Remember, guns don't shoot people, people shoot people. Do your parents trust YOU with a GUN?
It is hard to argue LOGIC with an IRRATIONAL person.
THe only way I know to effectively argue/debate is to use their own points against them, but also be able to defend your own.
for Civilians: basically you can argue there will always be irresponsible/unlawful people regardless of the law, and there will be those who are responsible/lawfull. Any reason for the majority of lawful citizens to suffer due to the minority of unluful. Do your parents have any issues with ALCOHOL, DRIVING, or dare I say ABORTION, all issues of responsibility? Should we revisit PROHIBITION or limit driving? Have them read some of the ARMED CITIZEN articles, you can even show them articles in your state that never make the news.
For LE: You have to point out that they too have accidents regardless of traing and bad cops/corrupt government who misuse/abuse their power. Just read an article at policlink.com of mistaken identity in which officer fatally shot homeowner in his yard with his pregnant newlywed wife inside. Also read up on such cases as WACO and RUBY RIDGE.
Remember, guns don't shoot people, people shoot people. Do your parents trust YOU with a GUN?
Seenterman
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Weird Emotions
It was AFTER I had a gun shoved in my face that I realize gun countrol doesn't work as supposed to. I can still remeber it was a Glock about 7 inches from my face and me thinking exactly "Oh ****, I'm ****ed". I cant remeber the guys face but I damn well remeber that gun.
Thats when I got increasingly into self defence and started buying firearms. I want to get a CCW, but I live in NY and NY hates gun owners and thinks we suck, Havn't applied for the pistol permit but I plan on it, then I plan on applying for my CCW which is doubtful but oh well. I guess after an incident like that you can go one of two ways, Pro or Anti. Glad to say I came over to the Pro side.
It was AFTER I had a gun shoved in my face that I realize gun countrol doesn't work as supposed to. I can still remeber it was a Glock about 7 inches from my face and me thinking exactly "Oh ****, I'm ****ed". I cant remeber the guys face but I damn well remeber that gun.
Thats when I got increasingly into self defence and started buying firearms. I want to get a CCW, but I live in NY and NY hates gun owners and thinks we suck, Havn't applied for the pistol permit but I plan on it, then I plan on applying for my CCW which is doubtful but oh well. I guess after an incident like that you can go one of two ways, Pro or Anti. Glad to say I came over to the Pro side.
The only defense against deadly force is deadly force.
Even the president's body guards have to operate with that premise.
Therefore, dialing 911 is not a defense against deadly force, it's just a defense against it lasting longer than 5 to 25 minutes (depending on response time).
As to whether they will be convinced or not?
Guns are a very emotional issue for many people, part of that is fear from a lack of understanding that is derived from a lack of experience. Most people won't argue the substantive nature of the argument because they're so caught up in the emotional portion of the argument, so much so that the emotional portion of the argument actually becomes an identity argument: who they are to themselves is based on their belief in the truth of their viewpoint.
You can't argue substantive to somebody on an emotional level. you can barely discuss emotions on a purely emotional level, but once somebody is arguing on an identity level, nothing logical, factual, or any other type of rational will have any effect.
The goal should be to try to get them past the identity level and emotional level, so they can discuss issues on the rational level, the substantive level.
To do this, you'll somehow have to get them that experience they lack so they can overcome the fear and other emotions. Shooting a firearm in a safe enviornment can replace that fear with a thrill and a confidence in understanding. Maybe at that point, they will be able to start moving away from their identity crisis: that gun ownership means you're a bad person (or a criminal, or you will be a bad person in the future because the gun will make you--or give you the opportunity to--do bad things), and all good people strive to stomp out gun ownership.
Even the president's body guards have to operate with that premise.
Therefore, dialing 911 is not a defense against deadly force, it's just a defense against it lasting longer than 5 to 25 minutes (depending on response time).
As to whether they will be convinced or not?
Guns are a very emotional issue for many people, part of that is fear from a lack of understanding that is derived from a lack of experience. Most people won't argue the substantive nature of the argument because they're so caught up in the emotional portion of the argument, so much so that the emotional portion of the argument actually becomes an identity argument: who they are to themselves is based on their belief in the truth of their viewpoint.
You can't argue substantive to somebody on an emotional level. you can barely discuss emotions on a purely emotional level, but once somebody is arguing on an identity level, nothing logical, factual, or any other type of rational will have any effect.
The goal should be to try to get them past the identity level and emotional level, so they can discuss issues on the rational level, the substantive level.
To do this, you'll somehow have to get them that experience they lack so they can overcome the fear and other emotions. Shooting a firearm in a safe enviornment can replace that fear with a thrill and a confidence in understanding. Maybe at that point, they will be able to start moving away from their identity crisis: that gun ownership means you're a bad person (or a criminal, or you will be a bad person in the future because the gun will make you--or give you the opportunity to--do bad things), and all good people strive to stomp out gun ownership.
22-rimfire
Member
My Dad strongly disaggrees with my position on EBR's. He is not anti-gun from my perspective, but EBR's just don't fit into his world except for use by the military or police.
I have learned the hard way. No gains made discussing or arguing. Folks just get mad.
So as Gem said, just let it drop and don't bring it up. If you still live there, abide by their rules. If you don't, you and the law define the rules.
I have learned the hard way. No gains made discussing or arguing. Folks just get mad.
So as Gem said, just let it drop and don't bring it up. If you still live there, abide by their rules. If you don't, you and the law define the rules.
ColinthePilot
Member
I proved my folks wrong about responsible gun ownership, though they don't know it yet. When I was in college, I lived in their investment property. I wanted to bring a few guns down to school, but mom wouldn't let me. She seriously thought that I couldn't possibly store a gun safely in a house with beer and college students. Dad is pro-2a, but not a gun owner himself (I inherited those guns when my Grandmother died when I was 16) but he tends to agree with mom. My solution? I went and bought my own guns and didn't tell them. I lived for 2 years with a rifle, and one year with a CCW and a pistol. Now that I'm not under any of their roofs, they know about my guns, that I carry, and they're fine with it. I'm gonna wait a while before I tell them I violated their rules and say "told ya so 
"
"after re-reading, that quote of what your dad said about individual with training vs. cohesion kind of shows that he is not the kind of person to argue with on the subject.
That is easily one of the most anti-individual, single-minded things I've ever heard this week. You really don't want to argue with that, or the name-calling will ensue from both sides. He's never going to see any compromise on the gun rights, if that is how he feels about our society.
That is easily one of the most anti-individual, single-minded things I've ever heard this week. You really don't want to argue with that, or the name-calling will ensue from both sides. He's never going to see any compromise on the gun rights, if that is how he feels about our society.
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