Load Master
Member
For all of the rifle cals I reload I use a case gauge to help with sorting cases as to what needs to be done before reloading. This photos shows results after sizing .308 Win cases.
How to Use a Rifle Case Gauge to Speed Case Prep
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Paddy
member
Tip I learned recently is that if a case won't fit a lot of times it's because of a nick in the rim from the extractor. Take the case a put it in the gauge backwards and give a twist. This will iron out the nick.
243winxb
Member
Case gauges are not all the same. What brand are you using? I would guess Lyman, as the fired brass will not fit.
OP
OP
Load Master
Member
Yes sir, it is in fact the Lyman.
1KPerDay
Member
Might want to add that if loading for a semi auto, particularly a Garand or M1A, you want to size to the lower step on the gauge.
OP
OP
Load Master
Member
Good to know. I wish I had a Garand or M1A. I normally trim to the lower value. It allows a couple reloads before having to trim again.
Nothing against your method, but Ill pass.
I batch process my brass, most calibers in 500 to 1000 piece runs, and using a case gauge would be extremely tedious. Its far easier, even processing a 100 pieces, just to set up, size 100, and then trim them all using something like a WFT2, and then tumble. If sized and trimmed correctly, I personally feel a case gauge is a waste of time in the sizing and trimming steps and is more useful using a slotted case gauge to troubleshoot and verify loaded ammo.
I batch process my brass, most calibers in 500 to 1000 piece runs, and using a case gauge would be extremely tedious. Its far easier, even processing a 100 pieces, just to set up, size 100, and then trim them all using something like a WFT2, and then tumble. If sized and trimmed correctly, I personally feel a case gauge is a waste of time in the sizing and trimming steps and is more useful using a slotted case gauge to troubleshoot and verify loaded ammo.
Nature Boy
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The before pic looks like some once fired LC machine gun brass I have. 1 out of every 10 or so are blown out like that. If they're sticking up that far I usually just pitch them
OP
OP
Load Master
Member
I truly don't know the background of them. For all I know they could have been from something full auto. Once sized they seem to dimension well and I have a couple of reloads on some of the cases. The second sizing after shot in my AR size very easily. I'm not running hot rounds so I'm not too concerned about them.
1KPerDay
Member
Problem is if the loaded ammo is over headspace you have to pull it. Check the cases beforehand, takes 2 seconds, and you are good to go. The other issue is some brass springs back, particularly if it's been fired/sized more than once. I size a batch of HXP, say 100 cases, and 5 or 6 won't pass the gauge. I have to crank the die down a bit more and size those so they gauge properly. If you don't gauge cases you never catch those.
For a bolt gun it probably doesn't matter but in semi autos with floating firing pins it can be the difference between a safe round and a slamfire or out of battery explosion.
20000+ 223 loaded just for ARs in the last 3 years. My method is on point. Full length resize, slightly undersized expander during sizing, M-Die in station 1 while loading to set neck tension. This sets the headspace because I know the case is sized correctly to SAAMI for an autoloading rifle. My trim run with my WTF2 sets the OAL of the case correctly. Those 2 things guarantee I never need to drop a case into a gauge. If those 2 things are set correctly, why would I need to check the cases before I size? My average bulk loading run is 500-1000 pieces and sizing runs could be 2000+. That means Id have to gauge that many cases. I have NEVER had to worry about a round being able to chamber, and my reloads have been run through some tight 223 Wylde chambers.
Now, if I was only loading 50 rounds at a time, and I wanted to waste some time, I guess I could gauge the cases pre sizing. What exactly is the purpose of this, I guess Ill never know. You size and trim correctly and you do them all in a single batch? The gauge only confirms that. Thats the point Im making. Nobody in their right mind gauges a case, and says "Oh, its fits the gauge, I dont need to size this one" if its in the fired brass bucket.
The pictures above:
308 Win Fired Case Doesnt Fit - No kidding huh? Its in the fired brass bucket, so maybe you should just size and trim it because it goes without saying it wont fit
Case Neck Exceeds the Gauge Limit and Will Need to be Trimmed: Well if you would have just sized and trimmed it in a batch immediately post sizing you dont need to do this
The other 2 pics? If you want to gauge a few cases to verify post size and trim? Go for it. I wont tell you not to. Myself, I know my method is solid, so I dont screw it it. I check the first case I trim, make adjustments if needed, and the rest are good My dies havent moved since I did the initial setup and they never will unless I move them to a different press. Presses, sizing dies, trimmers, etc dont just magically change settings between uses.
All posts like this do is just make a relatively simple process into something way more complicated than it needs to be. The ONLY time reloading is remotely hard is loading ammo that has very specific neck tensions, OAL, and such, in other words, things that are needed for extreme long range shooting.
Case gauges can come in very handy for any kind of shooting. Do you have to have them to load and shoot? No, but they are quite useful, especially if you have tight chambers, or want to be sure your ammo will run in any SAMMI spec chamber.
No need to knock other folks methods, no one is telling you how to do it at your bench, just putting out info that may be helpful to others.
No need to knock other folks methods, no one is telling you how to do it at your bench, just putting out info that may be helpful to others.
Blue68f100
Member
Not necessarily. I use a Redding Type S Body die. With these all you need to do is remove the bushing and size. No need to break down the round.
I'm like Kaldor processing large quantity of brass. It takes me less time to trim (Drill Press mounted Trim-it II) than it does to check them with a test gauge. One of my AR has a minimum spec chamber which makes it tighter than most. Slam fire can and do happen but it's not related to brass not cambering in a AR. The way the bolt is design in a AR, it will keep the hammer from hitting the FP if not fully locked. Yes the hammer will fall but it will not hit the FP. M1 Grand, yes it can have an out of battery condition.
I load on a AP, and do not have any problems with rounds not loading in my guns, or any one else. It's all about knowing how to setup your dies correctly.
VinnAY
Member
Bravo, Sir. A+
243winxb
Member
Its best to check the FL sizing of a progressive press with a gauge at set up.
My shell plate was different at each station. The worst station pushed the shoulder back .014" , causing case separations in my M16A1.
Setting the FL die to make full contact with the shell plate , didnt work for me in 1979. Had to buy these to find the problem.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
I see case gauges like any other tool in a reloader's toolbox. Some people use them, some people use them extensively and some people simply don't use them at all. I don't know of any rule cast in stone which defines using them or not, pretty much a matter of personal choice. I will say for those choosing to use them it is important to know which features your gauge(s) measure and how to use the gauge you have. Gauges like the Wilson & Lyman as well as several others will not for example measure case base diameter and gauges like the Sheridan Engineering Slot Gauges will.
Personally while I have a wide variety of gauges I can turn to I generally don't use any. Without getting out my SB (Small Base) or other match dies I generally load .223 Remington and .308 Winchester using standard full length resizing dies. Running the die down to hit the shell holder and then adding about 1/8th turn works for me, I then trim to length. If my .308 Winchester brass sized and trimmed chambers in my .308 Winchester bolt gun it will run just fine in my AR 10T or my M1A, the same is true of my .223 Remington, if it runs through the bolt gun it will run fine in any AR I have. I typically load about 200 cases at a time by caliber and if the first ten I resize and trim chamber I am pretty confident the remaining 190 will do fine. I keep my brass uniform as to head stamp.
Anyway, using a case gauge is a matter of personal choice. The fact that some do and some don't does not mean some are wrong while others are correct. Reloaders find what works for them and apply it.
Just My Take....
Ron
Personally while I have a wide variety of gauges I can turn to I generally don't use any. Without getting out my SB (Small Base) or other match dies I generally load .223 Remington and .308 Winchester using standard full length resizing dies. Running the die down to hit the shell holder and then adding about 1/8th turn works for me, I then trim to length. If my .308 Winchester brass sized and trimmed chambers in my .308 Winchester bolt gun it will run just fine in my AR 10T or my M1A, the same is true of my .223 Remington, if it runs through the bolt gun it will run fine in any AR I have. I typically load about 200 cases at a time by caliber and if the first ten I resize and trim chamber I am pretty confident the remaining 190 will do fine. I keep my brass uniform as to head stamp.
Anyway, using a case gauge is a matter of personal choice. The fact that some do and some don't does not mean some are wrong while others are correct. Reloaders find what works for them and apply it.
Just My Take....
Ron
Coal Dragger
member
Feeding a semi auto mandates use of a case gauge. I don't measure every case, I set my Dillon size/trim die to render headspace at the low step of the case gauge, and adjust the trimmer to trim to appropriate length. Once this is set I run a few cases to verify they headspace correctly and are trimmed to specified length. Then it is on like Donkey Kong for running brass through case prep.
Once I have the die set for headspace I don't willingly adjust them again, the tool head stays intact as a unit. The trimmer has to be adjusted any time I change calibers, otherwise it stays on the die in adjustment.
As long as no adjustments are made I will set up to run brass, and simply verify the brass in the case gauge and spot check periodically.
Processing brass sucks. Especially on a 2000+ piece run of 223 or 9mm. My goal is to make it simple and fool proof. I want to be able to stand in my garage, have a beverage, smoke a cigar, listen to the radio, and more importantly, work with my son while Im doing this. Not worry about some nit picky stuff that if you are setup correctly for in the first place doesnt matter. I feel the only time that a case gauge is worthwhile investment is when you are verifying a few pieces to make sure you are good to go. And that happens POST sizing and trimming. I dont own a single one though. I can measure a case with a caliper, and I size all my SA brass to SAAMI. My bolt stuff is a little different, as I just bump the shoulder back a few thou while full length sizing. I use a Hornady comparator tool, which gives me far more information than a gauge ever will. My Hornady dies arent small base, but they are tight enough to get a good sizing on even the the most blown out piece of 223 or 308.
I have on hand about 15k pieces of 223 brass, decrimped, sized, trimmer, and tumbled in SSTL media. Before I do anymore serious brass prep, Ill be switching to a Dillon or Honey Badger trimmer. Then the process changes slightly, but the end result is exactly the same. And I still wont need to gauge a case...
I agree with you Ron. The case gauges are useful, but not really needed. They dont tell you any information you cant easily pull with a caliper. However, the slotted gauges like the Sheridans are useful, especially if you are having some weird issue where the loaded ammo doesnt fit the chamber. But even then, I refer back to sizing and trimming. If the case is sized and trimmed correctly, providing you didnt mess something up while loading, it should drop into the slotted gauge with no issues. I think if you have some funky custom chamber, then having a custom slotted case gauge might really be worth the investment to ensure everything is good to go. Fortunately these are actually pretty easy to get ahold of as you would would have the smith cut a blank at same time they are cutting the custom chamber.
OP
OP
Load Master
Member
Wow, if you have a process, system that works for you, great! The original post shows how to use a case gauge, nothing more. In your choose not to use a case gauge, for whatever reason, does that mean no one else should?
The post was for the benefit of new users who may not have the confidence or skill set to use calipers or other measurement tools just yet. For them the case gauge may be a good choice once they understand how it works. Again, the whole point of the post.
Of course its my opinion, but those that see it as an inconvienience are missing something important, at least with rifle rounds.
I use a bunch of case measureing gauges and comparators to initially set how much the shoulder is set back during resizing.
Doing so can allow you to set it back the minimal amount required, giving your brass a longer life.
Once done, they get slipped in one quickly to make sure all is good. As others have said, a few cases will still not fit without the sizing die turned down slightly further.
I use a bunch of case measureing gauges and comparators to initially set how much the shoulder is set back during resizing.
Doing so can allow you to set it back the minimal amount required, giving your brass a longer life.
Once done, they get slipped in one quickly to make sure all is good. As others have said, a few cases will still not fit without the sizing die turned down slightly further.
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Coal Dragger
member
I agree with your methodology, we're pretty close actually in how we go about this. I use a case gauge you use a comparator, once dies are set to spec no need to measure every case. That's why we set the dang dies to spec in the first place! So we can run brass, as you point out what size it is prior to processing is moot, it's what it measures when it comes out!
If you decide to go with a size/trim die solution with a powered die mounted case trimmer like the Dillon or Honey Badger I think you'll really like it. I wish I would have taken the plunge years ago. I went Dillon (RT 1500) and have been pleased so far.
I'm running on a Dillon XL650 so I'm admittedly a hopeless blue Koolaid drinker, but the set up works well. Using SS wet tumbled brass, I lube it up, dump it in the case feeder, and get to work. My current case prep tool head is set up with a universal de-cap in station 1, and the size trim die and RT 1500 in station 4. I wanted to run the size trim in station 3 but the short case and die combined with the girth of the output snout on the trimmer make this impossible with the stock tool head retainer pins. So I am unable to run a neck expander ball on this tool head. Instead I run the neck expander ball in station 1 of my final load tool head.
So far I'm able to easily do about 650-800 cases per hour with this set up, and I am by no means fast. I run a few test pieces that I gauge, and once I verify everything is working properly run brass and spot check periodically. Then SS wet tumble again for final cleaning (and because I hate case lube on my loaded ammo). The SS media, as mentioned, knocks all the trimmer flashing off, making debur and chamfer totally unnecessary, although I will note that the angled cutter on the Dillon leaves very little flashing anyway.
Depending on your press the size trim die vacuum port may be down very close to the top of the tool head giving minimal purchase to your lock nut on the die for something .223/5.56 length. The trimmer makes enough start up torque to loosen the die from the tool head if the lock nut doesn't have adequate purchase. I bought a second lock nut and tightened the die from the bottom side of the tool head as well as the top, haven't had the issue re-occur since then. The top lock nut partially obstructs the vacuum ports on the top of the die, but this has proven to be a non issue since I am running a pretty stout shop vac.
My next upgrade is a press mounted primer pocket swage. Upgrading to an XL650, meant upgrading to a case feeder, that lead to a power trimmer on the press, now I need to upgrade my primer pocket swage... next I suppose a bullet feeder. Then press automation. OK maybe not that far. Ha ha ha.
This was no dig on you, but the failing of the OP came in with the original statement:
"For all of the rifle cals I reload I use a case gauge to help with sorting cases as to what needs to be done before reloading."
What Im pointing out is that using a case gauge before you size and trim is a waste of time. Post trimming, go for it. I can get the data easier and faster ways, and once the run is started, its not like the sizing or trimming is going to change, and if it does then you need to get back to fundamentals and setup correctly. I check the first case, and the fifth case, and then I do a 1000. The 1000th case will be the same as the 1st case providing the setup is right.
As far as new people starting loading? Ask? The simple answer and where you should start for setup of sizing die is cam over, plus a 1/4-1/2 turn and call it set. Every reloading manual and set of instructions for the dies tells you this. The only time it gets remotely complex is when you are loading for a bolt gun and are just bumping the shoulder or only doing neck sizing.
Im right there with you. I love my LnL, and mine has been extremely tuned to get it working as well the case feeder will allow. I am considering buying a 650 this year just to run high volume 223 and 9mm on, keeping the LnL for large primer stuff like 45 and 308. Then between me and my boy we should be able to process a couple thousand 9mm an hour. I will probably just buy the 1500 at the same time, which then I should be able to size and trim 800 223 an hour on. I still will cut my crimps with the RCBS cutter though, but I do it the easy way with a jig and my drill press rigged up with a foot pedal. Although, a SwageIt on a 650 sounds pretty handy
OP
OP
Load Master
Member
The first photo was just to illustrate an case before sizing, not something done on every case.... It seems you are reading more into the text than what was there. This wasn't about press setup. It wasn't about speed, and it had nothing to do with other ways to measure. It was showing how to use a case gauge. I have a hard time understanding how the first post gets us into "loading for a bolt gun". In my simple attempt to show how a case gauge works, we ended up with multiple paragraphs on how you process your brass, set your dies, how many cases you process at a time and per hour. Again, wow.
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