How to Use a Rifle Case Gauge to Speed Case Prep

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And to add one thing to this mess, the idea here is to make reloading as simple as possible for the person just starting out. I tell people to start small, low investment, Lee Classic Turret kit is a great place to start because it will grow with you as your skill set increases. Buying more gear and trying to complicate things actually turns people off of reloading which is why I dont bother telling people to buy case gauges.

You need only a couple skills to reload:
You need to be able to read a scale
You need to be able to use a digital calipers
You need to be able to read and understand simple instructions

If you cant do those 3 simple things, then reloading is not for you. The process itself is pretty simple, dont make it harder than it needs to be.

Ive mentored a handfull of people, and I always break it down to the most simple explanations and the most basic gear to get the best result. Anything more is just fluff and a waste of time and money.
 
The first photo was just to illustrate an case before sizing, not something done on every case.... It seems you are reading more into the text than what was there. This wasn't about press setup. It wasn't about speed, and it had nothing to do with other ways to measure. It was showing how to use a case gauge. I have a hard time understanding how the first post gets us into "loading for a bolt gun". In my simple attempt to show how a case gauge works, we ended up with multiple paragraphs on how you process your brass, set your dies, how many cases you process at a time and per hour. Again, wow.

No, it came off as "I do this before I size any brass" which is grossly misleading to anyone that is new to reloading which I why I spoke up. Sizing brass needs to be done in batches. Trimming needs to be done in batches. Thats the way people need to be taught. If you want to gauge every case before and after every step, go for it, but most people will soon realize its a waste of time. Thats all Im pointing out.

And before the "wow" comment, realize this. Because I do it as much as I do, chances are I have a pretty good lock down on how you actually do it. The chance for failure is very magnified when you start adding large quantities and speed into the equation, like I do. Im using it to prove a point. Even though I do 1000's of pieces a year, the same basic steps I use are applicable to anyone who is doing 100 pieces a year. But hey, Ive only been loading for 30 years, so I dont know much I guess.
 
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What Im pointing out is that using a case gauge before you size and trim is a waste of time.

For you perhaps, but not for others.

As I stated, I've been using a case gauge to assess LC once fired machine gun brass before sizing to determine how bad they've been blown out. If they sick out of the gauge as far as the one in the OPs picture, I cull them. Others may go ahead process them anyway and don't care.
 
No, it came off as "I do this before I size any brass" which is grossly misleading to anyone that is new to reloading which I why I spoke up. Sizing brass needs to be done in batches. Trimming needs to be done in batches. Thats the way people need to be taught. If you want to gauge every case before and after every step, go for it, but most people will soon realize its a waste of time. Thats all Im pointing out.

And before the "wow" comment, realize this. Because I do it as much as I do, chances are I have a pretty good lock down on how you actually do it. The chance for failure is very magnified when you start adding large quantities and speed into the equation, like I do. Im using it to prove a point. Even though I do 1000's of pieces a year, the same basic steps I use are applicable to anyone who is doing 100 pieces a year. But hey, Ive only been loading for 30 years, so I dont know much I guess.
Here's an idea! How about starting your own thread! You can boast your process on how great it is.

Again, I started this thread to help people just starting out with reloading. Not to hear how may years you have been reloading, how fast you are, how knowledgeable you feel you are, etc.... Your comments and input are not helpful. They are your opinion. Make your own thread.

I am not impressed. I expect others are not ether. I do understand that you don't like case gauges. Your choice. Funny thing, Lyman, Hornady, and many others recommend them. Maybe you should contact them and explain the error of their ways. No disrespect, but I hold Lyman, Hornady, Lee, and many others opinion in little higher regard. Again, make your own thread.

33862309552_8c8f8179a5_c.jpg
 
And to add one thing to this mess, the idea here is to make reloading as simple as possible for the person just starting out. I tell people to start small, low investment, Lee Classic Turret kit is a great place to start because it will grow with you as your skill set increases. Buying more gear and trying to complicate things actually turns people off of reloading which is why I dont bother telling people to buy case gauges.

You need only a couple skills to reload:
You need to be able to read a scale
You need to be able to use a digital calipers
You need to be able to read and understand simple instructions

If you cant do those 3 simple things, then reloading is not for you. The process itself is pretty simple, dont make it harder than it needs to be.

Ive mentored a handfull of people, and I always break it down to the most simple explanations and the most basic gear to get the best result. Anything more is just fluff and a waste of time and money.
Curious how you properly measure/confirm proper headspace/shoulder setback from the case head to the datum line with calipers... can you post your method please?
 
Here's an idea! How about starting your own thread! You can boast your process on how great it is.

Again, I started this thread to help people just starting out with reloading. Not to hear how may years you have been reloading, how fast you are, how knowledgeable you feel you are, etc.... Your comments and input are not helpful. They are your opinion. Make your own thread.

I am not impressed. I expect others are not ether. I do understand that you don't like case gauges. Your choice. Funny thing, Lyman, Hornady, and many others recommend them. Maybe you should contact them and explain the error of their ways. No disrespect, but I hold Lyman, Hornady, Lee, and many others opinion in little higher regard. Again, make your own thread.

A case head gauge is fine. Please stop twisting my words. You telling people that they should gauge every piece of brass pre sizing is a waste of time. Just because Im refuting what you have said does not make me wrong anymore than it makes you right.

All Im pointing out is that using a case gauge prior to loading is largely a waste of time. Some people feel the need to gauge beforehand. Im not stopping you. Ive loaded enough that I can feel if for example a piece of 7.62x51 LC MG brass is way blown out. Did I need to gauge it to figure that out? Nope, I just stop the sizing operation and toss it as mil brass is cheap. But then again, I first run size MG brass with a different method which makes it a little more time consuming but gets more consistent results. But I wont go into that here because it doesnt involve a case gauge and I think Ive posted it elsewhere on this forum.

I chose to give the info on my process because it allows you to NOT use a case gauge, and get the same consistent results. A correctly set sizing die, and a consistent trimming method removes the need to gauge anything more than a check piece to get started.

Have a great day!
 
Curious how you properly measure/confirm proper headspace/shoulder setback from the case head to the datum line with calipers... can you post your method please?

Hornady comparator tool allows me to do that pretty easily actually. If you dont have one? You should buy one. Great addition and has really allowed me to get my bolt gun reloads on point.

I wont go into it anymore than that. It isnt about a case gauge and I dont want to derail the thread anymore than it is... /rollseyes
 
I use one for 308 and 300 BLK. I load a lot of these and don't have time to check each one. But I do check a few when I am setting up and a few now and then when I am about done. I don't want to load 1K and then find out I goofed them up. So I guess you could say I use one for quality control. If one doesn't fit, I get out the small base die and fix it right then and there.
 
cool... you didn't mention that in your list above.

Largely because I consider a comparator to an advanced loading technique : )

Its not for everyone, and to be honest, the only gun I use it religiously for is my bolt guns. SA's need a full length resize to SAAMI spec to them to guarantee to chamber. How to I know Im at SAAMI spec with a caliper? I can check it without a comparator as well. A quick measurement to the shoulder in 2 places will let me know if Im in the right place. OAL length post trim is easily measured. Sizing dies have the exact internal dimensions as a case gauge. If the sizing die is set correctly, then the gauge becomes redundant other than a tool used as a QC pass to verify your settings before you run thru 50, 100, 2000 cases.
 
I will reiterate what Kaldor is telling you guys, and give my thoughts on best practices and efficiency. I know efficiency isn't a high priority for a lot of you since you enjoy the process, but for many of us with limited time/a lot of brass to process it is very important.

1.) As stated a case gauge or using a comparator/caliper is a way to verify your equipment is calibrated properly to produce brass that will headspace correctly. A case gauge will also tell you if it needs to be trimmed as will dial calipers. This is a safety and quality control issue, that has to be adhered to in order to produce safe, reliable ammunition. Always verify the sizing die is adjusted properly with one of these two tools, just because the die manufacturer tells you to screw the die down all the way and back off 1/4 turn or whatever doesn't mean that will always work. The case gauge or comparator gives you a real number to verify off of, the die instructions are only a starting point.

2.) Kaldor points out, and he is 100% correct, that case gauging fired brass or using a comparator/caliper on fired brass tells you basically nothing of any value at all. Nothing. All you manage to accomplish by measuring fired brass is to waste time (to be brutally honest), and to verify that: yep it's been fired... theres carbon on it, a dent in the primer, and the brass is expanded, all surefire signs it went boom and got ejected out of a firearm. Your powers of deduction are keen!

So let's talk about this fired brass that you propose to process. Some of you are now irritated at me telling you you're wasting time case gauging this fired brass before you resize it in a properly set sizing die (that you set with your case gauge or comparator/caliper), you no doubt will point out that some of that brass really wouldn't fit in the gauge! It's all swollen at the web you say!

My response is: so what? I don't care how big the chamber it was fired in is, that doesn't matter. What matters is how well it resizes back to spec in your sizing die. This can usually be felt during the sizing process, every now and again it requires abnormal effort to size a case that is clean and lubed. More often than not if you yank that case after resizing you find it doesn't have a shoulder bumped back like other cases that resize normally and gauge just fine, this tough case doesn't gauge just fine. My suggestion is to throw it away. Obviously there is an issue with it, probably not once fired and it is now work hardened, who knows what other problems are lurking in the case web or primer pocket. So toss it. When you feel it takes abnormal force to run a piece of brass in your resizing die, always always always measure that case in your gauge with calipers, or comparator compared to other pieces, if it doesn't measure to spec toss it, even if it does best practice is to toss it. There is something wrong with that case, and it needs to go in the trash not in your rifle's chamber!

Notice that you discover problems with brass during actual resizing, not before. Many times that case you found to be larger than the others if you wasted time gauging it in fired condition prior to resizing, will resize just fine meaning you learned nothing of any value gauging it before resizing.

3.) Case gauges or comparators are great tools, but once dies are set up properly are only really used to verify proper adjustment before starting a batch and to periodically spot check brass to ensure adjustments are holding. With the exception of the occasional problem child brass that will have to be tossed after it fails gauging after resizing.

4.) Gauging every case prior to resizing is a waste of time, sorry but there it is. If you are processing a large batch of brass your best practices to maximize productivity mean handling individual cases as little as possible and letting your tools do the work. If you have good tools, and you know how to adjust them and check the adjustment your quality will be just as good or better than someone who laboriously fiddles with every case. Frankly this obsession with OCD levels of case prep is a distraction, and probably results in no actual improvement to the ammo. If your brass gets properly cleaned, resized with appropriate headspace, and trimmed to appropriate length it will work just fine once final loaded. The process is not rocket surgery, and no amount of futzing around with the brass outside of those basic steps will improve the function or accuracy of the ammunition. I have discovered this the hard way, and so have others who obsessed over things like run out etc. One fellow who posts on M4carbine.net vented his frustrations at how good Black Hills match ammo is, even though all of his runout gauges and other measurements suggested his hand loads should outperform the factory stuff; yet when sent downrange the results were the same. Not just for 3 shot anecdotal groups, but for multiple 10 shot groups, and long range shooting. So I'll reiterate, buy good tools and dies, adjust them properly for your application, use them correctly and process your brass and load your ammo. Then get out and shoot! Stop obsessing over minutia that don't mean anything, you gain nothing.

Good luck everyone!
 
A case head gauge is fine. Please stop twisting my words. You telling people that they should gauge every piece of brass pre sizing is a waste of time. Just because Im refuting what you have said does not make me wrong anymore than it makes you right.

All Im pointing out is that using a case gauge prior to loading is largely a waste of time. Some people feel the need to gauge beforehand. Im not stopping you. Ive loaded enough that I can feel if for example a piece of 7.62x51 LC MG brass is way blown out. Did I need to gauge it to figure that out? Nope, I just stop the sizing operation and toss it as mil brass is cheap. But then again, I first run size MG brass with a different method which makes it a little more time consuming but gets more consistent results. But I wont go into that here because it doesnt involve a case gauge and I think Ive posted it elsewhere on this forum.

I chose to give the info on my process because it allows you to NOT use a case gauge, and get the same consistent results. A correctly set sizing die, and a consistent trimming method removes the need to gauge anything more than a check piece to get started.

Man, unbelievable. You talk of "twisting my words".... I have NEVER said people should gauge every piece of brass pre sizing.. Where are you coming up with this stuff??? Again, giving your OPINION of what is or isn't a waste of time has NOTHING to do with showing how a case gauge works.

You are making stuff up, and pretty much destroyed the intent of my original thread....good job. You are not helping anyone but your own ego. Again, how about you go start your own thread and quit the destruction of others.
 
I will reiterate what Kaldor is telling you guys, and give my thoughts on best practices and efficiency. I know efficiency isn't a high priority for a lot of you since you enjoy the process, but for many of us with limited time/a lot of brass to process it is very important.

1.) As stated a case gauge or using a comparator/caliper is a way to verify your equipment is calibrated properly to produce brass that will headspace correctly. A case gauge will also tell you if it needs to be trimmed as will dial calipers. This is a safety and quality control issue, that has to be adhered to in order to produce safe, reliable ammunition. Always verify the sizing die is adjusted properly with one of these two tools, just because the die manufacturer tells you to screw the die down all the way and back off 1/4 turn or whatever doesn't mean that will always work. The case gauge or comparator gives you a real number to verify off of, the die instructions are only a starting point.

2.) Kaldor points out, and he is 100% correct, that case gauging fired brass or using a comparator/caliper on fired brass tells you basically nothing of any value at all. Nothing. All you manage to accomplish by measuring fired brass is to waste time (to be brutally honest), and to verify that: yep it's been fired... theres carbon on it, a dent in the primer, and the brass is expanded, all surefire signs it went boom and got ejected out of a firearm. Your powers of deduction are keen!

So let's talk about this fired brass that you propose to process. Some of you are now irritated at me telling you you're wasting time case gauging this fired brass before you resize it in a properly set sizing die (that you set with your case gauge or comparator/caliper), you no doubt will point out that some of that brass really wouldn't fit in the gauge! It's all swollen at the web you say!

My response is: so what? I don't care how big the chamber it was fired in is, that doesn't matter. What matters is how well it resizes back to spec in your sizing die. This can usually be felt during the sizing process, every now and again it requires abnormal effort to size a case that is clean and lubed. More often than not if you yank that case after resizing you find it doesn't have a shoulder bumped back like other cases that resize normally and gauge just fine, this tough case doesn't gauge just fine. My suggestion is to throw it away. Obviously there is an issue with it, probably not once fired and it is now work hardened, who knows what other problems are lurking in the case web or primer pocket. So toss it. When you feel it takes abnormal force to run a piece of brass in your resizing die, always always always measure that case in your gauge with calipers, or comparator compared to other pieces, if it doesn't measure to spec toss it, even if it does best practice is to toss it. There is something wrong with that case, and it needs to go in the trash not in your rifle's chamber!

Notice that you discover problems with brass during actual resizing, not before. Many times that case you found to be larger than the others if you wasted time gauging it in fired condition prior to resizing, will resize just fine meaning you learned nothing of any value gauging it before resizing.

3.) Case gauges or comparators are great tools, but once dies are set up properly are only really used to verify proper adjustment before starting a batch and to periodically spot check brass to ensure adjustments are holding. With the exception of the occasional problem child brass that will have to be tossed after it fails gauging after resizing.

4.) Gauging every case prior to resizing is a waste of time, sorry but there it is. If you are processing a large batch of brass your best practices to maximize productivity mean handling individual cases as little as possible and letting your tools do the work. If you have good tools, and you know how to adjust them and check the adjustment your quality will be just as good or better than someone who laboriously fiddles with every case. Frankly this obsession with OCD levels of case prep is a distraction, and probably results in no actual improvement to the ammo. If your brass gets properly cleaned, resized with appropriate headspace, and trimmed to appropriate length it will work just fine once final loaded. The process is not rocket surgery, and no amount of futzing around with the brass outside of those basic steps will improve the function or accuracy of the ammunition. I have discovered this the hard way, and so have others who obsessed over things like run out etc. One fellow who posts on M4carbine.net vented his frustrations at how good Black Hills match ammo is, even though all of his runout gauges and other measurements suggested his hand loads should outperform the factory stuff; yet when sent downrange the results were the same. Not just for 3 shot anecdotal groups, but for multiple 10 shot groups, and long range shooting. So I'll reiterate, buy good tools and dies, adjust them properly for your application, use them correctly and process your brass and load your ammo. Then get out and shoot! Stop obsessing over minutia that don't mean anything, you gain nothing.

Good luck everyone!
NO where was it suggested or stated to "case gauge brass before sizing" other than Kaldor's post. I never said that or even suggested it. Did you read any of the original postings? This was a simple attempt to show the features of a case gauge. Nothing more. Focus was folks new to reloading. Kaldor's ramblings has changed and pretty-much destroyed the thread and you are perpetuating his thoughts on things that were never said. Good job guys!
 
Man, unbelievable. You talk of "twisting my words".... I have NEVER said people should gauge every piece of brass pre sizing.. Where are you coming up with this stuff??? Again, giving your OPINION of what is or isn't a waste of time has NOTHING to do with showing how a case gauge works.

You are making stuff up, and pretty much destroyed the intent of my original thread....good job. You are not helping anyone but your own ego. Again, how about you go start your own thread and quit the destruction of others.

I think you are a little unhappy that I proposed a counter point which is very well reasoned out and viable to yours. This is a discussion forum after all. How about we discuss this, and you tell me your method is superior to mine instead of insisting that Im destroying your thread with an opposing point of view.

No, you actually said "For all of the rifle cals I reload I use a case gauge to help with sorting cases as to what needs to be done before reloading." which implies that you are using a case gauge to sort before any reloading. Your first pic, upper left says: .308 Win Fired Case Doesnt Fit which doesnt jive with your second statement of This photos shows results after sizing .308 Win cases. So which is it? Maybe Im confused and this is my point of contention as you did not offer more than a few pics with a semi vague description.

Im simply reading what you are proposing and disagreeing saying that you might be wasting a little bit of time. Im not saying you are wrong and neither is Coal Dragger, but what we are saying is that what you are proposing people do is gauge cases both pre (?) and post (?) sizing is probably a waste of time. What you are absolutely correct on is how to use a case gauge.

My personal feelings on the matter are that case gauges are a useful tool for some people. For me, I can gather all meaning full data with a good calipers, a steady hand, a sharp eye, and if I really want to get down to brass tacks, a comparator. If you really want to put some very useful info out there, do a write up on how to use a comparator, as most people look at mine and do a double take. As I stated before a slotted case gauge is far more useful in my honest opinion providing the gauge is cut to the exact dimension that your chamber is and would be another excellent thing you can demonstrate the very positive and useful strengths of.

Recommending that a new reloader buy a case gauge can be argued either way. Id prefer to show people how to check their cases with just a caliper, and I do. Lots of new reloaders get overwhelmed by the sheer amount of equipment out there and I can cut thru the baloney pretty quickly telling them what to buy, why, and then show them how to use it.
 
Sizing dies have the exact internal dimensions as a case gauge.
Hmmmmmm....

3.) Case gauges or comparators are great tools, but once dies are set up properly are only really used to verify proper adjustment before starting a batch and to periodically spot check brass to ensure adjustments are holding. With the exception of the occasional problem child brass that will have to be tossed after it fails gauging after resizing.
That problem child brass is indeed the problem. Some brass springs back more than others, despite Kaldor's repeated insistence that whatever goes into a die comes back out with those exact dimensions.

And if you (rhetorical you) don't check each one you will inevitably let the problem child brass slip through into your loaded ammo and may cause problems. That may be a level of risk that some people are comfortable with and the chances of problems may be very small. However it is an increased risk.

Whether you choose to gauge every piece of sized brass or periodically check, or whether you use a comparator or check loaded rounds with a cutaway gauge, I don't think anyone would argue that it is important, particularly with ammo intended for semi-autos, to CONFIRM proper sizing/case headspace at some point in the process.

But I could be wrong. :D

Lots of drama for a reloading niche thread on the supposed high road. LOL
 
Lots of drama for a reloading niche thread on the supposed high road. LOL

Indeed. We'll call it a day. Too bad, it could have been a great thread. I just don't understand why some people cannot disagree without making it personal. There is no place for in in grown up discussion and debate.
 
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