Hunters shooting my dogs

[conw]

Hi guys,

Thought I'd post here with this question in hopes of getting friendly and reasonable responses, which is the norm at THR.

Short background, my parents (and I, until recently, I'm 21) live on a 28 acre tract of land in the NC foothills. Gorgeous woodland with some fields and meadows, plenty of streams. Prime deer hunting country also. They do not hunt but maintain a friendly relationship with a few hunters, whom they allow onto their land for access to thousands of acres of woods. They express clearly to each and every hunter that there is to be no shooting near the house or our driveway, which constitutes the majority of our land.

Basically, the rub is that sometimes people tend to sneak in and hunt closer than they should, or they wander onto our land and ignore the no trespassing signs. And of course any hunter would be tempted to stalk a deer that happened to cross our property line.

But what is really the problem is that we have had two, and now maybe three, dogs shot by hunters. One barely made it into the carport, bloodied, when I was about ten and then expired. Another never came back. And now my parents heard a gunshot this morning - I am at college - and another dog is yet to come back.

I told my mom to get in touch with a game warden and perhaps he or she could help her look; I don't know of any other solutions. She's already been looking around and calling for him, with no luck. Hopefully he'll come back, but that's still two family dogs gone because of these *******s.

I've persuaded them to adopt an "absolutely no trespassing" policy except for one or two friends of the family, but how do we enforce this? Any tips on interpersonal relations with selfish trespassing hunters? Also, we know who shot at least one and maybe two of the dogs. I am not going to lose my cool if I see him, but how can I enforce this policy? We're a good 40 minutes from the sheriff's dept.

Thanks for any input, and thanks for reading a rambling post from a distraught THRer.

C

 

[conw]

Oh yeah, before anyone asks, the dogs do not wander off my property. They actually stay fairly close to the house. And even if they did wander off the property, they have collars, and anyone hunting in this immediate area accessed it through our driveway (which is about a mile long and unpaved).

 

[kawhead71]

conwict,
I can relate. When I was a youngun I found my rabbit dog shot dead a few days after deer season. He was a good beagle, a little too tall by classic beagle standards, (my grandpa suspected some foxhound in the mix) but he was broke off of deer (not fun, but neccessary). My family let a few hunters on our farm, and I'm sure none of them would have shot my dog, so I assumed it was a trespasser. Some hunters will shoot dogs, especially if they see them running deer, but as I said, JJ was broke off deer, so I figured it was some POS that just wanted to kill something.
Be careful!!! "Interpersonal relations" with trespassing hunters can go awry pretty quickly. Witness the Hmong debacle in Northern Wisconsin a while back. 99% of hunters are good decent people that ask permission and close the gates behind them, but that remaining 1% could be armed lunatics for all you know. If they'll cross your posted line and shoot your dog, what else will they do? Don't mix it up with these guys, if you run across them. I believe in sticking up for what's right and what's mine, but in this case you need to let the law handle it. I realize it's gonna take the Sheriff a while to get out by your folks, but I'd rather see you wait than catch a .30-.30 round in the gizzard because you miss your dog.

Hang in there, Brother.

 

[ArmedBear]

No Trespassing
Blaze orange on the dogs. Cheap, and worth it.

And I'm sorry to hear this.

 

[Javelin]

Probably the same wannabe's that are talking about hunting wolves in the other post are shooting your dogs. If you ever see one burned up by a flamethrower then they read the "best gun for a wolf pack" thread.

It makes me so mad to see people killing such great animals. I have a soft spot for all canine animals. Every last one of em. Probably shoot to protect one of them than some two legged type.

It just burns me up.

 

[kawhead71]

I like my dogs more than I like most people I know.

I wouldn't get up at 2am to clean up my bosses puke!

 

[conw]

kawhead and others,

Thanks for the words of advice. I was not going to openly accuse anyone of shooting my dog, but rather play it back and forth. "Sorry fellas, we aren't allowing any more hunters here, had a dog shot recently." Wait for a response..."Well that's too bad you don't know who did it, but NO one is going to be allowed here from now on. Please leave."

I don't want to escalate it, by any means. I am also interested in knowing what the legal ins-and-outs are here: if I ask a group of people to get off my property, and they don't, and appear threatening, what is in my legal right to do? I plan on having a gun at hand (it being my property, and with ne'er-do-goods about), but what is my backup plan if they aren't polite? If they say, for example, "Make us?" Guess I could whip out the cell and call the sheriff and then be prepared to defend.

The Hmong thing came to mind for me, also.

 

[conw]

ArmedBear, you mean blaze orange collars?

 

[kawhead71]

You could go sneaky-style on them. Try to appear as if it isn't your property, and tell 'em, "The cat that owns this land is a real hard case. He's up behind the house right now, diggin' a hole just for you guys! I'd get lost if I were you." Maybe not...

I don't know, bud. It's a hard situation. There's no telling what people are going to do in this day and age. If you're going to approach these guys, be polite but firm, be prepared and most of all, be alert. If it's an honest mistake, and the hunters cop to it, everything's ok. If it's possible, take a two-way radio with you, and keep in contact with your folks at the house, that way you don't seem isolated to the bad guys (if that's what they turn out to be). The lower element of society seem to like to pick on the unprotected, and if they see you're strapped and in contact with someone they can't see, they might think twice about starting something. The whole idea of self-defense is to never have to shoot anyone. Defuse the situation before it blows up.

Good luck, and be careful. None of us want to lose a friend we've never met.

 

[1 old 0311]

If you see their truck be carefull NOT to pour a bottle of Iodine into the gas tank. It WILL take out the fuel pump, fuel regulator, and ALL the injectors.

 

[conw]

0311,

That would really be a shame. Then, they'd be stuck with no ride home on property they had no right to be on. I would feel really bad for them!

 

[Javelin]

If you see their truck be carefull NOT to pour a bottle of Iodine into the gas tank. It WILL take out the fuel pump, fuel regulator, and ALL the injectors.

Be careful not to get yourself shot in the process....

 

[R.W.Dale]

Oh yeah, before anyone asks, the dogs do not wander off my property. They actually stay fairly close to the house.

Unless you have them fenced in I'll wager money your dogs roam well beyond your property boundary. People have this silly notion that once they buy a couple acres and move out to the country they can "free range" their mutts. Of course they're shocked when their darling pet meets it's demise chasing cows 3 miles down the road. cause after all "They actually stay fairly close to the house".

As a pet owner it's your responsibility to care for your animal. That includes keeping it under your control.

If you find your dog dead on your moms place than you have a problem with trespassers. If you do not find your dog's corpse then YOU have a problem not taking care of your pets.

 

[kawhead71]

"Free range dogs" They taste so much better than fenced-in dogs! kidding.

Good point, krochus. A dog that is shot on someone else's property might not have deserved it, but it's a case of wrong place, wrong time. Come to think of it, there is no right time for Fido to be chasing someone else's chickens.

 

[conw]

krochus,

One dog is very old, can't wander far, and the latter tends to stick with the former. Chasing cows 3 miles down the road, I'll give you, is not a valid reason for me to get angry. However, the land we own is the only way to access any of the hunting land for miles around (other than a public road and cutting your own trail)...so if you think it's okay for someone to trespass on my land to access hunting land nearby and then shoot my dog, I'm going to have to STRONGLY disagree.

Whether the dog was technically shot on my land isn't the point, the point is that whoever shot my dog crossed over my land to get to their stand. And their stand is not far from my land. As far as I'm concerned, if they crossed my land to get to land that they basically squat on to hunt, shot my dog, and crossed back over, they are trespassers.

Your point about keeping track of one's dogs is well received, but it is easy to tell how far my dogs go simply by the amount of time they're gone. Generally they don't leave the house for more than 20-30 minutes, meaning they can't go farther than a couple of miles round trip. The nearest house (or sign of civilization) is farther than that, down the driveway a mile and 3 miles or so down a paved road. And it sure as hell pisses me off to think someone would use my land for access - which I generously allow - and then shoot a collared dog, whether or not it was "running deer." If the dog is a problem, they simply need consult me about it.

 

[R.W.Dale]

So you live in the middle of a Natn'l forest with no neighbors whatsoever for miles and miles. I think you're making a LOT of assumptions. Do you even know WHERE the dog was shot?

I'm not saying that trespassing is OK but I am saying it's much more likely your dog was somewhere where he shouldn't have been.

Again find the corpse and you'll know what kind of problem you have.

Doesn't it seem rather silly for someone needing to keep a low profile (tresspassers) to draw attention to themselves by shooting the neighborhood pets?

 

[retrieverman]

Oh yeah, before anyone asks, the dogs do not wander off my property.

If I had a dollar for every time I have heard that statement, I would be rich and retired right now.

I am sorry about your dogs, but I put the responsibility of protecting your dogs on you and your family. We are only getting one side of this story, and I would bet that there is more to it.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I agree that no one should shoot your dogs on your land -- that's a crime, and they should be prosecuted.

But the evidence you give doesn't support the accusation:

1. A wounded animal might travel a long way before dying -- I've tracked deer for a mile or more after shooting one. Your property is small, and your dog could be just a hundred yards away and not be on your property.

2. Hearing a shot, and then claiming that was the shot that killed a dog whose carcass was never found is quite a stretch.

3. I've heard the old song, "My Dogs Don't Get Off My Property" too many times to believe it -- I've had people say that when I've seen their dogs harassing livestock miles from home.

4. It doesn't make sense for a hunter to shoot a dog -- why would he do that? What's in it for him? It does make sense for a hunter not to fire a shot until he has deer in his sights.

 

[paintballdude902]

i know a guy that had is best plott hound shot 3-4 years back and he was sooo pissed off he set up a live fire range on half of his land

he did a 3ft barbed wire fence with "live fire gun range beyond this point" signs every 4 ft (made em himself for $$ reasons) then every day at 530 hed go fire off a box of ammo, some times we would shoot for 6-8 hours

 

[kawhead71]

Who recorded that song, Hank Williams?

 

[Javelin]

4. It doesn't make sense for a hunter to shoot a dog -- why would he do that? What's in it for him? It does make sense for a hunter not to fire a shot until he has deer in his sights.

+1

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Who recorded that song, Hank Williams?

I forget if it was him or Whoopie Goldberg.

 

[conw]

So you live in the middle of a Natn'l forest with no neighbors whatsoever for miles and miles. I think you're making a LOT of assumptions. Do you even know WHERE the dog was shot?

I'm not saying that trespassing is OK but I am saying it's much more likely your dog was somewhere where he shouldn't have been.

No, not a national forest. Parents heard a gunshot and dog has been missing since, and all kinds of things could be the cause: broken leg, female in heat nearby, chasing chickens (yes, it's a possibility), or what I originally assumed. There is a lot of empty land around, though, and I feel I am a good judge of the dog's habits. He's been around for about eight years and I think I know what he is up to most of the time. Since there is not anything much nearby, and he is never gone for long, it seems reasonable to assume he doesn't bother the neighbors (who are as I stated 3 miles away).

So if the dog was shot within auditory gunshot range, my initial assumption seems valid. If not, again, I have no idea what happened. The other dog, who was shot and made it up into our carport, was most definitely shot on or very very near the property. So you can see why I would think what I think.

 

[Steve H]

If you see their truck be carefull NOT to pour a bottle of Iodine into the gas tank. It WILL take out the fuel pump, fuel regulator, and ALL the injectors.

Right after that doesn't happen make sure nobody calls the local law enforcement and doesn't report any tresspassing

 

[conw]

1. A wounded animal might travel a long way before dying -- I've tracked deer for a mile or more after shooting one. Your property is small, and your dog could be just a hundred yards away and not be on your property.

2. Hearing a shot, and then claiming that was the shot that killed a dog whose carcass was never found is quite a stretch.
...
4. It doesn't make sense for a hunter to shoot a dog -- why would he do that? What's in it for him? It does make sense for a hunter not to fire a shot until he has deer in his sights.

Regarding 1), and I'm not really to keen on spending your time and my time explaining all the ins and outs, it is a fact that you can't hunt on land near my property without crossing it. That's what infuriates me.

As for 2), I agree, and am currently withholding judgment. Heck, I hope it didn't kill the dog. He's only been gone since this morning, which is very unusual for him.

And 4), maybe in your circles that's true. Where I'm from in NC, lots of hunters are absolute jerks. Just the fact that you're in the InterWeb tells me something about you. You are literate and you put a modicum, at least, of thought into your actions. Heck, you're on THR. But what makes you assume all hunters are like you (if you do hunt)?

Word got around to me about my other dog because the hunter who shot him told a neighbor. So I also happen to know that some of the hunters around my area do not think the way you think.

If the dog was 100 yds off my property, fine. My point is that if he was off my property and was shot, whoever did so crossed my property.

I'm not really trying to defend my actions or my parents' choices. I agree with most of what you're saying, just not the assertion that I can't possibly know my dogs' habits, or that I am making false assertions about my parents' living area.