Hunting rifle and cartridge for west Texas deer

[JmacD]

270 wsm is VERY difficult to find ammo and brass for. Or so I’m told. The whole patent lawsuit thing really messed up the marketability of the wsm set imho.
I personally have never hunted with it, BUT, a friend of mine has set up 5 of the Ruger American predators in 6.5 creedmoor for various of his family members. They shoot half moa or better running a 143 ELD-X. Plenty of DRT one shot stops. I would not at all be afraid to run one for whitetails. Even the big “bread basket” Midwest/Plains whitetails I’m pursuing.

 

[Charlie98]

270 wsm is VERY difficult to find ammo and brass for. Or so I’m told. The whole patent lawsuit thing really messed up the marketability of the wsm set imho.
I personally have never hunted with it, BUT, a friend of mine has set up 5 of the Ruger American predators in 6.5 creedmoor for various of his family members. They shoot half moa or better running a 143 ELD-X. Plenty of DRT one shot stops. I would not at all be afraid to run one for whitetails. Even the big “bread basket” Midwest/Plains whitetails I’m pursuing.

Good info, there! I was still reading the gun mags back when the crazy hunting cartridges started coming out... Double Extra Super Short Mid Westerner Uphill Magnum... and I always wondered about the 'durability' of those kinds of rounds... whether they would be around in 20 years, or if you were stuck with Unobtanium factory ammos or something.

I am coming around on the 6.5CM. I have a fair stash of brass for it, and I already have some good loads worked up for the target rifles... it wouldn't be a stretch to swap to a hunting bullet and do a quick workup.

 

[OS/N]

270Win will deliver and out perform any of the 308 cased variants. Ammo is easy to come by also.

 

[.308 Norma]

It doesn’t matter your skill level…the flight time and all possible environmental factors combined with the potential of the animal moving all make any shots beyond 500 sketchy.

Exactly!

 

[.38 Special]

No, sir, you are not. If I knew everything, I wouldn't have posted my OP. I really, really do appreciate everyone's comments, even the negative ones. I've never hunted in 57 years, nor has my brother (except bunny busting back when he was a teenager.)

That is gracious of you, and I apologize for being overly harsh. I strongly dislike the trend toward long-range "hunting" and tend to go all red-faced and shouty when the subject comes up.

For what it is worth, I think the 6.5 Creedmoor is a fine choice, and I wish your brother the best. (I still hope he stays away from the idiots bragging about 1000 yard deer, though.)

 

[Charlie98]

That is gracious of you, and I apologize for being overly harsh. I strongly dislike the trend toward long-range "hunting" and tend to go all red-faced and shouty when the subject comes up.

For what it is worth, I think the 6.5 Creedmoor is a fine choice, and I wish your brother the best. (I still hope stays away from the idiots bragging about 1000 yard deer, though.)

Well... and that was one of the reasons I posted the question. His friends have money and time to dump into stuff like this, my brother does not. What I need is the straight poop, not a $5000 solution that has a tricky name, or is just the flavor of the day. I can help him work up a load for the rifle, and get it set up, and then we're supposed to go to this guys spread to work on the scope dope.

 

[LoonWulf]

Good info, there! I was still reading the gun mags back when the crazy hunting cartridges started coming out... Double Extra Super Short Mid Westerner Uphill Magnum... and I always wondered about the 'durability' of those kinds of rounds... whether they would be around in 20 years, or if you were stuck with Unobtanium factory ammos or something.

I am coming around on the 6.5CM. I have a fair stash of brass for it, and I already have some good loads worked up for the target rifles... it wouldn't be a stretch to swap to a hunting bullet and do a quick workup.

Ive never taken an animal with the 6.5CM, someone else is always holding mine for some reason..... Actually it's not a mystery, I used the 6.5 creedmoor as my primary loaner rifle because I'm confident in it on medium game in even novice hands.
(A Christenson Mesa in 7-08 has taken on that role of late, also a great option..... But then there's not really a whole lot of bad options....)

Ive seen maybe a dozen or so animals from 60-120 or so pounds taken with it, all using some form of hornady ELD. No bullets recovered, no animals needed tracking.

Ive also taken a 600ish lb feral bull at 50ish yds with a single 143Eld from my 6.5-284, it was a lung heart shot. Wasnt thrilled with the penetration, but that bullet was launched 150-200fps faster than the average CM load for it.

 

[.38 Special]

Well... and that was one of the reasons I posted the question. His friends have money and time to dump into stuff like this, my brother does not. What I need is the straight poop, not a $5000 solution that has a tricky name, or is just the flavor of the day. I can help him work up a load for the rifle, and get it set up, and then we're supposed to go to this guys spread to work on the scope dope.

I hope he asks for a 1000 yard demonstration. One shot from a cold rifle at an 8" target should do.

(I really do wish you and your brother the best. You might want to do a lot of polite smiling and nodding, while keeping your BS detectors at maximum strength. I'm going to quit now, before I get myself into real trouble. )

 

[Charlie98]

Ive never taken an animal with the 6.5CM, someone else is always holding mine for some reason..... Actually it's not a mystery, I used the 6.5 creedmoor as my primary loaner rifle because I'm confident in it on medium game in even novice hands.
(A Christenson Mesa in 7-08 has taken on that role of late, also a great option..... But then there's not really a whole lot of bad options....)

Ive seen maybe a dozen or so animals from 60-120 or so pounds taken with it, all using some form of hornady ELD. No bullets recovered, no animals needed tracking.

Ive also taken a 600ish lb feral bull at 50ish yds with a single 143Eld from my 6.5-284, it was a lung heart shot. Wasnt thrilled with the penetration, but that bullet was launched 150-200fps faster than the average CM load for it.

Do you think the 7mm-08 is a more reliable game cartridge than the 6.5CM? On paper they look quite close...

 

[Charlie98]

One shot from a cold rifle at an 8" target should do.

I talked to him about that. I said if he couldn't shoot inside of a paper plate at whatever range, he shouldn't take the shot. I've got a 12" plate... but it's out in NV right now.

 

[Nature Boy]

West Texas deer are on the smaller side and I’ve killed quite a few of them with a .308

 

[Dr T]

Nature Boy, that is about the same size as the one I saw right after I shot my yearling 6 point and was on the way to the smokehouse... Bet mine is more tender.

Back to the thread. The 6.5 cm, 6.5x55, 260 Rem, 7-08, and 7x57 are, in practice, so close as to be indistinguishable. Of these, the 6.5 cm has very good factory ammo readily available. The others are harder to come by and may have to be hand loaded to achieve the same results. It makes it easier to practice with.

As a first time deer hunter, your brother is going to need to practice. The first shot he gets may be the only shot he gets. And the first deer of the year you see always sends a big jolt of adrenaline into the system that he will need to manage before shooting. Muscle memory gained through practice is essential.

 

[Captcurt]

Its not that you take the shot if you're confident that you can make it - you take the shot when you're confident you can't miss.

Exactly, but you still have the risk of a gust of wind blowing somewhere down range or the target animal moving. I once took a poke at a mulie across a canyon. I guesstimated the range at 400yds, held about 4 or 5" over his withers and let one go. At that very split second Mr. Mulie decided to take a step. I saw him kick and knew immediately that I had hit him too far back. He made a couple jumps, stopped behind a bush, and then fell, rolling 2/3 of the way to the bottom of the canyon. My bullet had taken him in the center of the ham and took out the femoral artery. Elevation, though, was perfect.

 

[LoonWulf]

Do you think the 7mm-08 is a more reliable game cartridge than the 6.5CM? On paper they look quite close...

No, both produce similar wound tracks with similar weight/construction of bullets.
The 7s CAN launch significantly heavier projectiles, but IMO your getting into diminishing returns over 150-160, with a 08 size case. The 140-150 6.5s are pretty similar at that point.

When I bought that rifle it was between a 6.5 creedmoor and the 7-08. The only reason I went with the 7-08 was because I hadn't had one before.

I'd be comfortable with anything from 223 on up, but in terms of guns for loaning out. I want a bit more mass than then even the 6 mms can send downrange.
Both the 6.5 creedmoor and a 7-08 do well at that.....so do a host of other chamberings, so by no means do i consider either the only option.

If you guys feel you need/want more than Id step upto a long action. You can gain some MPBR with the 06 size cases and similar bullet weights.
If you want more (you really dont NEED it imo) then the standard 7mm or 300 magnums will give you extra bullet weight at similar velocity to the 06 cases....or you can launch screamers, in which case id suggest monos....

IMO pick the cartridge and rifle that you guys find the most interesting and have a form factor that fits what you want to do with them.
Unless either are way off the wall they will serve you well.

 

[OS/N]

Regardless of what range you can hit a pie plate it is important to keep in mind that the range at which the bullet crosses the 1500ft# energy level shoud be considered the maximum effective hunting distance of the cartridge you are using. At the same time you also have to keep it on target.

Sometimes a persons abilty to manage recoil comes into play but you will still have to realize the range limitations of the softer shooting choices. The distance you have to track and retrieve wounded game should also be a factor for anyone that cant manage much recoil.

You can use just about any bottle neck CF cartridge up to 200 yrds excluding 22s, 300 yrds narrows the choices, but when you start considering 400 and further effective shooting ranges the picks are fewer still and sub MOA becomes a must to make clean kills. Bullet design becomes aparent also because a lot of those 400 yrd + rigs basically act like exploding varmint bullets inside of 100 yards.

 

[JDeere]

Texas Hill Country. 1000 yard shot. Sorry, my bs meter just pegged.

I have hunted the hill country for over 60 years and there may be some places where it could be done- perhaps a long sendero in a big pasture in ideal conditions, but you have several big obstacles. Notably wind, brush, and visibility.

The lay of the land makes the wind behave whimsically. The brush makes it great deer country, but it also makes hard to get a clean shot. Deer have evolved to blend in very well.

Yep 1000 yds in the Hill Country is BS. Completey unethical for any true hunter even with long range experience. I to have been hunting the Hill Country all my life. My longest shot was 180 yds on a doe in a terraced pasture. I have shot really nice bucks at 65 yds. Used the .270 for quite sometime and now use the 7mm-08 with 140s. You don't need a mag for Hill Country hunting.

 

[EIB0879]

If I was looking for a new deer rifle, this is what I would probably buy.

Out the door for $700.

Bergara B-14 Hunter 7mm-08 22" 1:9.5"#4 Bbl Rifle w/Synthetic Stock B14S107C

Bergara B-14 Hunter 7mm-08 22" 1:9.5"#4 Bbl Rifle w/Synthetic Stock B14S107C For Sale

www.eurooptic.com

 

[Charlie98]

The 6.5 cm, 6.5x55, 260 Rem, 7-08, and 7x57 are, in practice, so close as to be indistinguishable.

No, both produce similar wound tracks with similar weight/construction of bullets.
The 7s CAN launch significantly heavier projectiles, but IMO your getting into diminishing returns over 150-160, with a 08 size case. The 140-150 6.5s are pretty similar at that point.

If I had my druthers, I'd tell him 6.5CM or .308. I'm tooled up for both, and I have experience handloading both. I've also shot both side-by-side (my Savage .308 next to a RPR in 6.5CM) and the 6.5CM is far easier to manage, recoil-wise, and, as I say, it's easy to shoot well. I'mma guess a ~140grn 6.5mm can't do 95% of what a 165grn .308 does, and likely would be even money at 150grn.

 

[Charlie98]

West Texas deer are on the smaller side

Very often I run down US281 to San Antonio... I see them giving me the eyeball from the side of the road. I'm glad they haven't stepped out to say Hi... I've already whacked enough deer as a OTR truck driver.

 

[horsey300]

I have a .270wsm, skip that one, it's dead, 6.8 western is the replacement to go with, something along the lines of 6.5 prc, 7 prc, .280ai, 7 rem mag, 6.5 cm would be good too since you've stipulated not to actually go to 1000, the old 6.5x284 would be good too, but any .264" bullet or larger, in a case that uses 45-60 gr of powder should do just fine with the right load.

 

[Dr T]

FWIIW, I use Hornady Superformance factory loads with the 129 gr SST bullets. I have also seen decent results from Hornady 120 gr factory target loads. The SST is one of the most effective bullets I have seen for deer.

 

[zdc1775]

Regardless of what range you can hit a pie plate it is important to keep in mind that the range at which the bullet crosses the 1500ft# energy level shoud be considered the maximum effective hunting distance of the cartridge you are using. At the same time you also have to keep it on target.

Sometimes a persons abilty to manage recoil comes into play but you will still have to realize the range limitations of the softer shooting choices. The distance you have to track and retrieve wounded game should also be a factor for anyone that cant manage much recoil.

You can use just about any bottle neck CF cartridge up to 200 yrds excluding 22s, 300 yrds narrows the choices, but when you start considering 400 and further effective shooting ranges the picks are fewer still and sub MOA becomes a must to make clean kills. Bullet design becomes aparent also because a lot of those 400 yrd + rigs basically act like exploding varmint bullets inside of 100 yards.

I know I'll never be able to convince people who think they know better, but first you don't need anywhere near 1,500 ft/lbs of energy to kill a deer. Using that metric a traditional 150 gr 30-30 Winchester would be inadequate at anything over about 50 yards and I can pretty well guarantee that millions of deer have been killed by that round at more than 50 yards over the last century.

And concerning excluding 22 centerfires, over the past 30 years I have been hunting, and the number of years growing up that we had deprivation permits on our farm, I have lost count of how many whitetails I have killed (easily over 100 probably closer to 150 total with around 30-35 of those being while actually hunting) with shots ranging from around 5 yards to 525, and have used everything from a 22 WMR to a 458 Lott and they have all worked within their limits, but the majority of those, including about half of the hunting number, were killed with either a 22-250 or 223 at ranges from around 50 to 400 yards. I've never needed a second shot on any of them, though I have taken one on two occasions, and they only deer I have ever "lost" was shot with a 30-06 and ran about 25 yards before collapsing on the edge of a river bank and tumbling down into the river, I could see him floating in the river obviously dead but wasn't able to get down to the river safely before the current took him out further than I was willing to go to try and retrieve him.

@Charlie98, in your situation, I would tell your brother to pick out a Ruger American, Savage Axis, Tikka T3x, or Mossberg Patriot in any caliber from .243/6mm up to .300/7.62 that makes him happy, doesn't matter what name follows the caliber or if it's a magnum or not, he'll be good on deer sized game out to 4-500+ yards using it if he practices enough to actually hit his target at that range. And if he ever gets to the point that the rifle is his limiting factor he'll actually know enough to make a more informed decision.

 

[ThomasT]

I hunt with a 7-08 most of the time and before that a 7x57 custom rifle. I would recommend the 7-08 with the one exception and that is that ammo isn't always easy to find. I reload for it so its no problem for me. On the other hand I would suggest the common 270. Excellent cartridge with easy to find ammo. I bought a lot of guns from a widow who just wanted them gone and in the bunch was a Savage Axis in 270 I shot a few times then sold. I wish I hadn't sold that one. I liked that Savage so much I just bought an Axis in 243.

As for long range shooting I try to stay away from it. My longest deer kill was 250 yards with a 243. It killed the deer grave yard dead where he stood. But I am a hunter not a long range sniper. Every other deer and two elk I have killed have all been 80 yards or less. Like I said I am a hunter and get a bigger thrill out of getting close. Its why I can hunt with open sighted BP rifles, 44 mag and 30-30 lever actions.

With a 270 or similar like a 30-06 or 308 200 yard deer kills are relatively easy to make. Remember the deer are the ones taking all the chances. Not the hunter.

 

[doubleh]

I have never even wanted to hunt the hill county of Texas but have seen the size of the deer there and the terrain. I would choose a medium caliber and completely forget about 1000 yard shots on any game animal. In fact in "real" West Texas where mulies are found I would not consider a shot that far. The animal is due as quick and painess death as possible and too many things can go wrong. I have some more thoughs about the long hunting subject will abstain to not ruffle feathers.

 

[ECVMatt]

TX hill country = .25/06 for me.

I'm sure that may be a dated choice, but I guess I am getting a bit dated myself.

It is a proven round in TX and has the range and power for most hunting scenarios out there.

Texas is famous for long range shots, Remington even made a rifle specifically for this type of shooting, the Sendero, but I never shot more than about 300 yards at deer in my time in TX.

I am curious to see what you guys end up with! Keep us updated.