Hypothetical for the brand bashers out there

[cskny]

So I've read a lot of "brand bashing" on this board (and others). So let me pose a hypothetical question:

If Manufacturer A produces 5000 guns and has a 5% failure rate, they will have 250 guns with problems that require repair.

If Manufacturer B produces 50000 guns but only has a 2% failure rate, they will have 1000 guns with problems that require repair.

Now, on the internet do you suppose I'm more likely to hear about Manufacturer A or B?

Will I hear about the brand with the higher failure RATE or the higher NUMBER of failures?

See the problem? Without actual data, word of mouth and internet chatter can sometimes be useless. Worse, it can paint highly inaccurate pictures.

Be careful out there folks and stop bashing other people's choices unless you have the data to back up your trash talking

 

[General Geoff]

I don't think anyone blames a manufacturer for occasionally producing a lemon, as it is an inevitability with a mass-produced complex mechanical item. The problem comes when they don't stand by their product and fix the problem and/or replace the malfunctioning gun in a timely fashion, without additional cost to the purchaser.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Worse, it can paint highly inaccurate pictures.

That's it right there.

 

[gwnorth]

It's an internet forum - by definition it's not an unbiased sample of any products or manufacturer. I'm constantly amazed by how much emphasis people seem to put on opinions and comments posted on any of the general firearms forums (same thing could be said about any number of other things with popular forums on the web).

And if you actually frequent several of the most popular firearms forums what you quickly find is it's the same opinions being posted in multiple places, either without any additional supportive information, or simply building on other (equally biased) opinion posted elsewhere.

And like any internet forum, those experiencing negative aspects of a purchase or product are much more likely to post them then someone with no complaints (not criticizing those who do either, it is the basic human nature that when everything goes well you just get on with things, but when things go badly, it feels good to vent a bit and share your frustration).

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I think it goes back to people thinking that their stuff is a cut above other people's stuff. If someone owns brand a, they're going to think it's the best thing ever. Of course if they sell it and buy brand b, then brand b is suddenly much better.

I have been guilty of this from time to time and I try to watch it. That being said, there are a few brands I would never own. (I'm talking about the throwaways and the paperweights. You know the ones)

 

[M2 Carbine]

"brand bashing"

If the person doing the "bashing" hasn't owned the gun, or claims to have a lot of experience with the gun, I pay them little attention.


The FN 5.7 pistol is a good example.
It seems like the gun has magical powers in that a person can just look at one at a gun show and they instantly becomes experts on the gun and ammo.


Personally I start out every post with something like,
I've owned the gun for five years and.....
or
I don't own the gun but friends do and I've shot the gun a lot and........
or
I practice with lasers an average of three times a week and.......

 

[MrCleanOK]

You have a good point, that without production numbers the number of failures that we hear about are pretty meaningless. But, I absolutely will fault a company for shoddy customer service or manufacturing processes, which have nothing to do with data that we don't have access to as consumers.

 

[armchairQB]

To answer your question you are more likely to hear screaming to high heaven about the 1000 lemons even though their failure rate is lower.

The rule is: If you hear it on the internet you either, A dont believe it, or B use the rule of 1%. Only believe it 1% of the time. You will be far more accurate in your beliefs then.

 

[jakemccoy]

People brand bash because they enjoy getting other people riled up.

 

[Nasty]

A lot of folks just aren't happy unless they are feeling superior or putting other people down. It's usually an attempt to make up for whatever they are missing in their own lives.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

As long as the brand is a top shelf company (not Lorcin, Raven, etc.) I put little stock in reports of accuracy achieved, failure rate, or anything other than general impressions. I have confidence that every top tier mfr. is going to create a usable product, and will at times produce a lemon. Its up to me to decide which one I like the best.

 

[Big Bill]

Be careful out there folks and stop bashing other people's choices unless you have the data to back up your trash talking...

Or else what? Opinions are like hairs, almost everybody's got some. Anyway, who takes anything posted on an internet forum as gospel?

 

[smoothdraw]

But not only failures right.. there's customer care, there is value, there's perceived quality. Gee i own a couple of Kimber and I still bash kimber from time to time.. I bash it because of it's cost relative to its quality is poor. I agree there's a lot of trash in the internet and in forums but there are valuable information also. So you have to use your brain also and see what make sense for you and what's not. Do not say anything bad to people because they have different opinion than you.

You will not be able to test and get information to majority of the products. These informations are valuable. You let people spend and test products for you. All you have to do is make a wise decision who you listen and who you ignore.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

there's perceived quality.

One of these days someone is to going adequately define that. Just what IS quality anyway?

 

[Erik M]

I have always held the opinion that people who brand bash are themselves trying to justify spending $1000 on a gun who's job could be done just as reliably by a $500 gun.

ITT: I hate Taurus! That makes me look cool & sophisticated!

 

[cskny]

Quote:
Be careful out there folks and stop bashing other people's choices unless you have the data to back up your trash talking...
Or else what? Opinions are like hairs, almost everybody's got some. Anyway, who takes anything posted on an internet forum as gospel?

It's not about "opinions", opinions are welcome when they are real. it's when someone's doing a good review of a particular gun and a poster comes in and says "oh, so and so says that brand is crap so you're screwed". That's not an opinion.

The "or what" should be us as a community pushing back for DATA and INFO to support some of the silly claims being made OR telling those posters collectively to shut the hell up because their wasting everyone's time.

You know what, as a side note, it's scary how many people DO take what they read as meaningful and walk around parroting it.

 

[BigO01]

Fact is some people aren't happy unless they are complaining about something even if ther's nothing wrong to complain about , let me illistrate with a true short story .

My second job as a teenager was working in a bowling alley as a porter/general gopher .

Every week night the place was full at 6 pm with leagues .

Monday was all ladies for the early shift and every Monday I had this one particular women who would moan and groan and comlain to the manager about how dirty the lanes she was on were , I swear to listen to her you would have thought a herd of horses had spent the day pooping where she was every week .

After a few months of this I got so sick of it I went in 30 minutes early on my own time and cleaned her area and the ones on each side to the point a Doctor could have used them as an OR room yet once again within 5 minutes she was up to her usual routine complaining away , the funny part was I used so much Pine cleaner and bleach every other women within 50 feet of her lanes were complaining how strong the odor of all the cleaning products were !!!

 

[mljdeckard]

I have pointed out this idea many times. Brand bashers don't care.

 

[pingpingping]

As a gun lover, I love all guns. Would I buy all guns? No, some are better than others. If someone showed me a gun I thought was junk, I would still want to check it out and shoot it, and probably think it's neat...hey, at least he's got a gun.

I can't understand why gun-loving people bash gun-loving people's guns.

 

[SwampWolf]

My sentiments exactly, pingpingping.

 

[Big Bill]

I had a Hi Point once and didn't like it and will never buy another one. If I voice that opinion here, then am I a brand basher?

 

[EddieNFL]

The problem comes when they don't stand by their product and fix the problem and/or replace the malfunctioning gun in a timely fashion, without additional cost to the purchaser.

Bingo.

What I look for are comments such as, "My model 12345X constantly malfunctioned. I called and they told me how to fix it. Hmmm. Known problem, simple fix, but it left the factory anyway. Next.

 

[EddieNFL]

I had a Hi Point once and didn't like it and will never buy another one. If I voice that opinion here, then am I a brand basher?

At least to those who like Hi Points.

 

[Big Bill]

At least to those who like Hi Points.

Well then, they must be perdy thin skinned. I didn't realize that some gun owners liked to be stroked so much. So, I guess we all just need to tell people here what they want to hear. Right? No dissenting opinions allowed!

 

[bikerdoc]

You all can write what you want, if it is backed up by personal experience it is not bashing, just what happened to you. If I dont agree I will either move on or answer politely based on my experience. In the end everyone should be able to make up their own mind over time with facts not opinions.

That what the The High Road is - learn a lot, teach a little, make friends, and have fun.