Hypothetical Situation: Doctor's Office

[mons meg]

I will attempt to answer the original core question:

Anyway, when told they should go to the ER instead of here (which is our policy--emergencies must go to Emergency Rooms), they produce a gun and threaten whomever is working the desk.

I guess I would draw down on the individual threatening my co-worker/relative and shout "DROP THE GUN". If the individual turns the gun towards me, twitches the wrong way, etc. then I guess it's BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG. The Steyr M40 holds 12 in the mag.

I've never been in this particular kind of situation, but it seems to me that I don't care if this person is "normally" sort of decent when they're not under stress. If they're stressed enough to pull a gun in this kind of situation, they're stressed enough to SHOOT in this situation, and that is unacceptable.

 

[GRB]

My guess is under the original scenario, you would be justified in shooting someone who was threatening you or a coworker with deadly force. That is one thing, there is another. You would not be justified in turning away a gun shot victim by telling them they should go to the ER for better care. The doctor should be there on the spot pronto to administer at least first aid, while an ambulance is being called upon.

Let's twist this just a bit. Are you seriously telling me that all emergency cases would be referred to the ER without care from the doc in your office? If someone came into your waiting room for an office visit because of knee pains, then wound up having a heart attack while waiting - boosting the situation to one requiring emergency care - the doctor or you would in essence say tough noogies go to an ER. That is really poor policy as I see it.
Now imagine this scenario for a moment, and tell your doctor employer to do likewise please: Imagine you or the doctor are somehow shot and badly wounded. You require critical o intensive care for a traumatic injury. You go to a local hospital and immediately proceed to the Emergency Room. Therein the doc in charge of the ER tells you: "Please go to a local hospital, with a Trauma Center as they are better able to handle wounds like this." meanwhile you are bleeding/pumping badly from an artery - do you leave? How would you feel if told to do this by a DOCTOR?

The reason for that policy is because definitive care is available at the ER, and you are wasting time at the office.

As for this I think: no you are not wasting your time at a doctor's office if the doctor is any sort of an MD. That doctor should be more than aware of how to administer first aide while awaiting paramedics with an ambulance. A doctor not giving treatment and having a person who is not at all medically trained leave the office to then transport the wounded or sick person to an Emergency Room might actually be considered criminal or at least negligent. The person who brought the wounded or ill person into the doctor's office may have gone to the first available/closest medically trained person looking for help. This is a good thing. A doctor then turning away such a person is, in my opinion, a very bad thing. Sure maybe it would have been smarter to go directly to a hospital, but maybe the person requiring treatment is so badly injured that he or she require immediate first aid and the person who brought him/her into the doc's office does not have a clue how to do that.

 

[Dionysusigma]

Let's twist this just a bit. Are you seriously telling me that all emergency cases would be referred to the ER without care from the doc in your office?

I am not saying this at all. If someone calls in and says "My husband just had a stroke--we need to make an appointment" THAT is when we tell them to go to the ER.

You don't go to Jiffy Lube if your car got hit by a train...

However, as stated in both post 15 and post 19 (further emphasis added):

I brought up this matter with the doc, and he said the following:

"Yeah--I'd treat them as fast and as best I could, but then send them on with a priority referral to (a local hospital) where they're MUCH better equipped."

Situation: They've come to us for help (regardless of whether we were the best place to go first). We help them to the absolute f*#$& best of our ability. We then call an ambulance to come take them to the hospital.

 

[GRB]

Say the day is going how it usually is. People coming and going, when all of a sudden somebody rushes in demanding to see the doctor. They've been shot, or have someone with them who's been perforated. Or both. Anyway, when told they should go to the ER instead of here (which is our policy--emergencies must go to Emergency Rooms), they produce a gun and threaten whomever is working the desk.

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood. If you read what you wrote in your original post maybe you can see how someone would come to the conclusion that it sounds like you would tell them to leave and go to the ER without first getting care at your office. I still do not think that would justify them pulling out a gun and threatening you with lethal force, just pointing out why I thought what I did. Oh well, much clearer now. Thanks

All the best,
Glenn B

 

[Dionysusigma]

I apologize for that... It's the fruit of not thinking and not knowing.

 

[gutsngonads]

Good Samaritan and Doctor

Lots of people telling the Doc what to do. As a practicing trauma surgeon, I don't believe the Good Samaritan law as mentioned in a previous post) would apply in this situation. If the physician agrees to see this person and not wait for the arrival of an ambulance then a doctor-patient relationship has been entered and therefore falls outside of the Good Samaritan law. Now I agree that because this "relationship" was entered into under force, it is likely void..... but we all know that some whore / plantiffs attorney is going to claim that an established Dr - patient relationship has been created.

With this relationship created, it allows for full rights of the "patient" and therefore the option of malpractice suit..... and these are just the people who would file some baseless suit and cost the physician loads of cash in defense (which will likely end in a settlement out of court just to get rid of this nuisance suit).

If the guy is seriously injured, he won't last long standing up, he'll pass out and you can treat him without additional "hassle". If he is not seriously hurt, then waiting for the ambulance won't hurt him.

As far as all the hooplah about not offering emergent care to those who are asking.... a physician would be STUUUUPIIIIIIIIIID to advise someone who is calling on the phone with an emergency to come to their office. An office is not the place the person needs to be. NOTHING in the office can help them. They need a hospital. Go to the hospital. There are doctors at the hospital who want to help them.

Now if a person shows up at my office with a true emergency, of course you help them as best you can.... while you wait for the ambulance to arrive!