I ALMOST, had to clear my house today.

[ezypikns]

Good Lord.....

I don't have a thing to hide from the police in my house. When my wife and I came home from vacation and found the door to the garage open (NOT the garage door), we both knew there was something wrong. We always triple check that. She called 911 while I CAREFULLY investigated (not cleared) the house. Of course it was with a drawn 1911. My front door had been kicked in and a few things taken (nothing of any value). I believe they took off when they heard the garage door opener go off.
Of course, the police officer got there about fifteen minutes later and was very polite. Said we were lucky and I'm sure we were. He also advised me to avail myself of my 2nd ammendment rights if I hadn't already done so. I assured him I had.
Bottom line: Of COURSE I'm going to call the police when something like this happens. Not to save me and mine, I'll assume that responsibility, thank you. But because I've been led to believe that's what you do. I also think that LEO's are on OUR side. I don't see them as a threat. Every traffic stop I've been involved in since I got my CHL has been a non event, with the officers and MYSELF being courteous.......and that's all I have to say about that.

 

[sacp81170a]

BUT I do a 360 degree exterior perimeter check first and I'm peeking in windows looking for activity and I'm looking for signs of forced entry.

Exactly what I mean by recon, but, let someone know you're doing it, especially if you don't have communications gear available. The last thing you want is for the local PD to show up just as you round the corner with rifle in hand. That makes for a bad day...

 

[GLOOB]

Obvious omission here

So you think someone broke into your house, and you're thinking about going in there to "clear" it? ***. I'm thinking about CATCHING the guy and RETAINING my property. To that end, your best bet is to ID the guy, not find and wrestle him to the ground. Even if you have a gun, he will have "the right" to run away, and you can't (technically) legally detain him at gunpoint or shoot him if he is trying to escape. So if you really want to catch him without pulling some UFC moves, the first thing to do is try to identify any unusual vehicles in the vicinity (esp trucks or vans which may already be loaded with various appliances you may recognize) and record the license plate numbers. Check round back, too. Also, you may want to watch out for an accomplice/lookout. Now, if there's a BG, and he gets away, you'll have a plate number. Oh, and if you find a moving van with your big screen TV in the back, you could check to see if the key is in the ignition and take it (or stick a knife in the tires) before calling the cops and retreating to your car to watch the ensuing fun.

 

[cambeul41]

The door between house and garage does not always latch properly, so if it is open, I suspect that it was not careful enough. No reason to panic yet. If the dog and cat act normally, no resaon to panic at all. If the dog and cat do not act normally, then I will decide whether to call 911 or not.

 

[bruss01]

If you KNOW or have substantial reason to believe someone is inside your house, I agree with those who said call the cops and let them deal with it.

However, like others have said, if you found something "not right" that may or may not be evidence of an intruder (i.e. there is a plausible alternative explanation) then will you call the cops and take up their time for a bogus call? How many times of you finding something "not right" will it take before they get that final call, heave a sigh "oh it's scaredy pants... AGAIN..." and decide to top off the tank and stop for donuts on the way over.

I was asleep in my home (just recently took up occupancy, still did not have the furniture moved in and sleeping on an air mattress) when all of a sudden about 2AM there was a horrendous crash. I struggled up from sleep wondering what happened, did someone break in? I'm listening for voices, footsteps, any kind of further noise that would lead me to believe an intruder is in the house. I look for flashlight beams darting about in the hallway... nothing. Why is the dog not barking? Did the dog make that noise? I couldn't call the cops... I had no evidence of needing them. I got my revolver and proceeded to very carefully creep from room to room investigating, almost holding my breath. It turns out a ceiling fixture had picked that particular moment to let go it's bonds and come crashing to the floor. All was secure but I had a heck of a mess to sweep up. Dog slept thru the whole thing.

Finding a door open - well, could the wife or a roommate have left it ajar? Landlord have a plumber in there fixing a leak? There are alternate suggestions for why the door may be ajar. Look around - is there a plumber's truck on the curb... hmmm, another clue. Now if it's a U-haul on the curb with what looks like your tv and stereo in the back, whups, uh-oh, I think it's time to call the cops because you have some kind of tangible evidence that the "something not right" has now become "Houston, we have a problem". At that point you just stand back and be a good witness (assuming the cops are called) and how much better if you can get a digital camera from the neighbor's house. Likewise, if you peek thru a window and see someone strange moving around and it doesn't look like they're fixing a pipe or some other authorized activity, you have a problem and it is a good idea to call those who get paid to deal with such problems.

Checking the situation when there is cause for concern is part of the duties that come with having a household. I don't believe it is right or fair or even practical to push all of these duties onto LEO's - if everyone did this there would be no manpower left over for fighting REAL crimes. But if you do strongly believe that someone is in your home (as opposed to the possibility that maybe, there MIGHT be someone in your home) then it is time to think of the safety of your household first, which includes calling the cops and taking whatever action is needed to make sure the PEOPLE you care about are taken care of. Usually this will mean either leaving the home or calling everyone into the master bedroom to hole up. But it DOESN'T include scouring the downstairs because dad-gum it, you really loved that TV and don't want it stolen. You will not care so much about that TV when your little pre-schooler is crying over your bed in the ICU because some punk got off a lucky panic shot because he was afraid to get caught violating his parole.

In some jurisdictions, strictly speaking, it is LEGAL to use lethal force in defense of property. But is it a wise decision? A good investment? For most of us, in most cases, it is not. Things can be replaced. People you love... not so much. And remember, to someone, YOU are the people they love!

 

[eatont9999]

I would keep a piece in my car at all times, school or not. If I came home to that, I would clear the house my self. Good idea about calling first.

I do not want cops in my house making up stories and getting me in trouble for a little ammo or a rifle or two.

The $20 bill is a novel idea, but not every one is in your house to steal from you. Still, it is a good thing to do.

I think you got lucky. If no one answered and you not having a piece, things could get ugly quickly.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I wonder how many people who are saying just call the cops and let them deal with it are the same people who bash cops whenever they can on internet forums. Seems like it would be a skoash hypocritical to want them to risk their lives for you while simultaneously calling them power tripping thugs.

 

[sacp81170a]

I wonder how many people who are saying just call the cops and let them deal with it are the same people who bash cops whenever they can on internet forums.

I was just thinkin' the same thing myself... As for the folks who don't want the cops in your house - have you ever gotten to know who your local officers are? There's nothing wrong with seeing us cruising down the street and waving us over to have a chat. Knowing the folks in the neigborhoods we patrol is something that's supposed to be part of our job. That way, when the call does come in for "suspicious activity at 123 Main St", we won't be going "I wonder who that is..." We'll be going, "Hey, that's Mr. So-and-so, the guy with the bass boat (or whatever, you get my drift)."

As for the guys who are paranoid about us finding an "arsenal" in your homes, as long as nothing's illegal and we're familiar with you, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Familiarity goes a long way toward dispelling fear.

Of course, don't call us if you've got something under grow lights in the spare bedroom that you'd rather we didn't see... Not having us as a "personal security service" at your beck and call is part of the price of illegal activity.

 

[simpleguy]

My only thought is........bring your gun to school with you. In Oregon it's legal if you are legal to carry. That said, I think you did fine.

 

[Treo]

Those Awful Cop Bashers

Quote: "Of course, don't call us if you've got something under grow lights in the spare bedroom that you'd rather we didn't see... Not having us as a "personal security service" at your beck and call is part of the price of illegal activy"

So does the fact that I don't want you in my house automatically equate to " I'm engaged in some type of illegal activity?"

Of course it could never be something like I enjoy my privacy, or simply that its a matter of principal.

And you wonder why I don't want you in my house?

 

[sacp81170a]

So does the fact that I don't want you in my house automatically equate to " I'm engaged in some type of illegal activity?"

Of course not. It makes sense, don't you think, not to invite law enforcement officers in to a place where a law is being conspicuously broken?

Of course it could never be something like I enjoy my privacy, or simply that its a matter of principal.

But then, you are the one asking law enforcement officers to take all the risks. There is no time when we're off duty, give "freebies" or let things slide because you were afraid to risk clearing your house yourself. You want it private, you take full responsibility. Law enforcement has only the power to look where you allow us to look.

I was addressing the knee-jerk reactions on this thread with some cold facts. "Oh no, don't ever trust a cop." Well, how do you propose we put selective blinders on? Ask the police to clear your house for you as most sensible folks on this thread advise and you get the whole package. If you're that worried, don't call us. It's that simple. If that's your choice, then don't complain about how we only get there in time to pick up the pieces and start the investigation. Looks like we're damned if we do and damned if we don't, which is about par for some on this board.

And you wonder why I don't want you in my house?

OK, I get it. Reminds me of that Rudyard Kipling poem... Tommy, I believe it was:

"But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind."

 

[kd7nqb]

My only thought is........bring your gun to school with you. In Oregon it's legal if you are legal to carry. That said, I think you did fine.

No, we lost right to carry with the Katz Case, until her case is overturned the schools conduct code carries weight. It sucks.

Anyway not to create a thread drift but I felt it was important to mention.

BTW you guys have convinced me that the kel-tec that will float between my pocket and my center console is something that my next paycheck should bring me.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i've got insurance i could give a rats patootie if some one takes stuff. i just want/need to know if its safe for me and mine to go in . large dogs are a good tell tale. heck in my neighborhood i would tell em they get a free getaway holler to come on out and run its a freebie. of course there is only one way in and its a long way out to highway you would get caught on the way out.
but my ego is no longer involved vis a vis preservation of things i have insured. was once but i've gotten mellow or smarter in my old age you take your pick

 

[hollywoodfl]

I was burgled twice in Miami-Dade. One time I accidentally interupted the crime and they ran out the back door. Both times I called the police and they were nice and actually caught one of the guys, although I didnt get any stuff back.

Now that I live in Hollywood, FL, I am reluctant to call the police, largely because they are notorious in this town. They are known as criminals in their own right; most people I have talked to in my neighborhood are scared of them. They sent a few of the worst to prison just a little while ago, but like I said, they are notoriously evil.

I would be scared to go in to the house with people inside it, but I might, depending on my anger levels. You cant trust the courts to get your stuff back or to keep anyone in jail anyway. It is my house, my castle, after all.

 

[Treo]

To The Cops Posting In This Thread

THIS IS A TWO PART POST
please bear W/me while I'm getting it posted.

I am really sorry if my distrust of the police offends you. I really am.

I am sure that some decent cops post here, there are even a couple that I respect. Unfortunately, however, because there is such a huge disparity of power between you and I , I am required to distance myself from you in my own self defense.

As an example if I'm involved in an interaction W/ you , you are allowed to handcuff me. For my own safety of course. the problem with this is that because I have ,at that point lost all control over the situation I'm twice as scared as you are so why can't I put you in handcuffs?

When I'm going about my lawful & private business & I run into a roadblock/check point (HELLO THIS IS AMERICA WERE AREN'T SUPPOSED TO HAVE POLICE CHECKPOINTS HERE. THAT'S ONLY SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN IN COMMUNIST COUNTRIES.) shouldn't I be a little fearful? Shouldn't I be a little ( a lot) mistrustful?)

When I hear of police officers confiscating firearms from citizens in violtation of the Constitution, is there not cause for alarm? When I here police officers again & again speak against private firearms ownership. Should I not get scared

My freedom is precious to me. Because you have the ability to take my freedom ( even if only briefly) at whim, I view you as a dangerous , but necessary evil.

Don't ever think for a second that you somehow "protect" me. You may potentially protect me when you take some petty criminal off the streets, but how often are you really in a position to actually stop a real crime in progress? Bottom line when the chips are down I'm NOT going to depend on you to protect me I 'LL do my best to handle it on my own. Then ,if required I'LL call you to come take a report



.

 

[Treo]

To The Cops Posting In This Thread Part 2

nother thing, all this "thin blue line" crap is offensive to me you aren't all that stands between civilization & anarchy. I think some of your fellow officers have proven that some of the worst crooks ARE the cops.

If my giving you my honest perspective offends you I'm sorry, but please remember that unlike "Tommy" you aren't a conscript and I CERTAINLY never asked you to be a cop.

When all the evidence points to America becoming a police state I think it's only natural to mis trust the police

 

[sacp81170a]

If my giving you my honest perspective offends you I'm sorry, but please remember that unlike "Tommy" you aren't a conscript and I CERTAINLY never asked you to be a cop.

Nevertheless, there it is. Sworn officers may not be conscripts, but they have sworn an oath to go into situations that others would be more than happy to avoid. Would you put yourself in very real harm's way for a friend? How about for a total stranger? How about time and time again for everyone who calls? I'm not looking for sympathy, but think about what you're saying. Would you rather that every officer on the force in your town decide for him or herself what calls were too dangerous to go on?

I'm only offended in the sense that I expected better use of logic. The basic assumption that folks make in advising others to call the police to clear their home is that the physical danger is too great a risk for the homeowner to bear when there are public servants being paid to do it for them. Dependence on police to take the risk of physical harm and then using that as evidence that we're sinking into a police state illustrates the logical disconnect.

Don't be offended when I point out reality. If you're really that scared of and offended by the police (and I'm sorry that you are) then get the training and equipment, man up and take care of your own. The only other option is to abandon your home to whatever the BG's want to do with it. That may sound a little harsh but I believe that should be every citizen's choice. YMMV.

Oh, and thanks for painting with that broad brush you're using...

Edit:

Just to carry your logic to its end:

If your house catches on fire and the firemen find evidence of a crime while they're saving your house from burning down, they will report it. Better not trust those darn firemen!

If you keel over with a heart attack and the EMT's find evidence of a crime in your house in plain view, they will report it. Better not trust those darn EMT's!

Gee, it's gonna be expensive to buy firefighting, medical and home defense gear. Hope ya got a good job...

Just a little bit about myself:

I am a part time officer. I volunteer. I don't get paid.

I must meet and maintain all the qualifications of a full time officer. I also have a day job, I'm the IT Manager for a very large property owner's association with over 50,000 members. That takes about 60 hours of my week. I still have to work at least two shifts a month on the street. I have a BS in Industrial Engineering and an MS in Management Information Systems.

I have to buy my own equipment. The only thing I'm issued is a badge and two sets of uniforms. I train on my own dime, though some of it is tax deductible. A vacation for me is taking a week off to go through a patrol rifle course or an accident investigation course.

I still have to meet to same PT and firearms qualifications as a full time officer. Why do I do this? Because I'm too old (48, 49 next month) to go back into the military, but I couldn't sit on my duff and do nothing to contribute after 9-11. I was in Security Police in the Air Force for 10 years, so that's what I know how to do.

I'm a CCW instructor and a strong advocate for citizens being able to own and use any firearm that the police do, although that's sadly still not the case in our current situation.

Excuse me now, I have to go run a couple miles and hit the gym. Got a PT test next month.

 

[hollywoodfl]

sacp81170a - What do you do in a situation like the one where I live, where the police are noted criminals and harassers of the public? I just try to steer clear of them, not make eye contact and go quietly about my business.

 

[sacp81170a]

What do you do in a situation like the one where I live, where the police are noted criminals and harassers of the public? I just try to steer clear of them, not make eye contact and go quietly about my business.

I don't know all your circumstances, but try going to a few city council meetings, learning about your PD, and trying to build some bridges. At the very least, if they know citizens are interested and watching they may begin to change their behavior. If you're suffering under a bad PD, it's the city or county executives who are responsible. Bring your problems to them and if they're not addressed, work on getting some executives who will address them. It's the American Way.

I have to say that I did pick what I considered to be the best small town department in the area to work for. They needed the help and I can feel good that the chief and the mayor are really concerned about working with the community. You may not be in a position to pick where you're living, so you gotta do the best you can to work for change. I'm not looking at this through rose colored glasses, I know there are some PD's out there that have bad reps. I also know that once a department has a bad reputation it seems to go on forever. Incidents from 3 administrations and 10 years ago will still be causing distrust 20 years from now. Just goes with the territory I guess.

 

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder how many people who are saying just call the cops and let them deal with it are the same people who bash cops whenever they can on internet forums. Seems like it would be a skoash hypocritical to want them to risk their lives for you while simultaneously calling them power tripping thugs.

No, not exactly.

Police have sworn an oath to do uphold law and order, to serve and protect the public.

Bad cops have broken that oath, and deserve our contempt.

I must meet and maintain all the qualifications of a full time officer. I also have a day job, I'm the IT Manager for a very large property owner's association with over 50,000 members. That takes about 60 hours of my week. I still have to work at least two shifts a month on the street. I have a BS in Industrial Engineering and an MS in Management Information Systems.

Thanks for supplying us the resume, but this is not Monster.com.

 

[sacp81170a]

Thanks for supplying us the resume, but this is not Monster.com.

And what service have you rendered to your community lately? I'm merely pointing out to treo a few things about me that he may be unaware of. It's good to let the other person you're having a conversation with know your perspective.

Bad cops have broken that oath, and deserve our contempt.

I agree.

 

[hollywoodfl]

A little taste of our finest in action:

"In Hollywood, Florida, two Hollywood police officers pleaded guilty April 25 on heroin trafficking charges. Detective Kevin Companion and Officer Stephen Harrison admitted running a protection racket and using police vehicles to escort heroin shipments for people they thought were traffickers, but who were really undercover FBI agents. According to court documents, they also transported stolen diamonds from New Jersey, protected an illegal card game on a yacht, and trafficked in stolen bearer bonds. The pair face 10 years in federal prison when they are sentenced on July 20. Two other Hollywood police officers involved in the racket, Sgt. Jeffrey Courtney and Detective Thomas Simcox, are expected to plead guilty as well, but no hearing dates have been set in their cases."

Part of the problem has been that when the department was confronted by reporters, the reporters were harassed in their homes. A few of these guys are on their way to prison right now, but supposedly the FBI found so many infractions that if they had indicted everyone, it would have been over 80 officers. This would have left the town with no one. Oh, and when the Chief realized that the FBI was on site, he told the whole department, blowing the rest of the investigation. His response was that "nobody told him not to mention it." Now we have a new chief, but he has worked his whole career in the same department with the same corrupt cops. Hopefully he can rise above this, but I am not holding my breath.

I am not interested in going to a city council meeting and getting persecuted by the police. I will continue to vote against taxes and budget increases for the department.

 

[sacp81170a]

I am not interested in going to a city council meeting and getting persecuted by the police. I will continue to vote against taxes and budget increases for the department.

Sounds pretty grim. Not much advice I can give you on that one, but when the whole department is corrupt then that ain't the only place corruption exists. If being active isn't an option, I'd give some serious thought to finding another place to live. Sorry to hear about your situation.

 

[Sans Authoritas]

Taurusowner wrote:

I wonder how many people who are saying just call the cops and let them deal with it are the same people who bash cops whenever they can on internet forums. Seems like it would be a skoash hypocritical to want them to risk their lives for you while simultaneously calling them power tripping thugs.

They're only power tripping thugs when they're not protecting A) Life, B) Liberty and C) Property. (And all of these should be done by privatized police forces anyway, not the police with a town and statewide monopoly on the business.)

Unfortunately, in this day and age of the "War on Drugs," car registration, drivers' licenses, bans on prostitution, safe alcohol consumption, smoking in bars being banned, laws prohibiting peaceful carrying of firearms by any adult who is able to walk the streets, protesters getting arrested for holding signs where the police don't want them to, arresting people safely skateboarding on public property, confiscating firearms after 'emergencies,' DUI checkpoints (and whatever other checkpoints the Supreme Court irrationally decides are just), people getting Tasered to "shut them up," Tasered as a means of punishment, or Tasered for peacefully exercising free speech... well, let's just say that in this day and age, cops seem to do very little of the "big three:" protecting life, liberty and property. Mostly, they protect the power of the State. They're revenue officers, in great part. I have a problem with that.

Don't get me wrong. I believe that abusing drugs, prostitution and drunkenness are immoral. But I don't think there should be a law against them. There should only be laws against the actions that in themselves violate the rights of others. (Violent or dangerous acts, whether done under the influence or not.) Civil law has no place restricting freedom in order to prevent what people might do, and it has no place trying to directly protect the rights of God, or the power of the State.

If the only thing cops ever did was actually protect life, liberty and property, while making their money from competitive, voluntary insurance-company style subscription to their services, I would have the utmost of respect for all such police officers. As it is, we're living in a police state. The police enforce the moronic "laws" made by the congressmen you all despise. To support their doing such, even if they're "just following orders," or "doing what they swore to do," (does Nuremburg come to mind?) is the only hypocrisy I see. And for those who would have me "Move to China if you don't like it here?" Thanks. Don't need to move to China. It's coming here to us, unless people wake up. Which is why I'm here: trying to wake people up.

-Sans Authoritas

 

[hollywoodfl]

This thread is getting a little heated. I like the idea of social services, but in execution, they seem to go terribly awry. I don't believe that this society is capable of ethically handling power and large sums of money. Perhaps other countries are able to, Finland comes to mind.

This country, which I love and call home, has uniformly abused and misspent whenever given the chance. I would rather keep my money, my guns and my freedom and exercise my altruistic predilections directly through volunteering and charitable donations.

Unfortunately, no official that I have ever seen up for election has ever agreed with my positions. I am not a Christian. I am socially liberal. I am fiscally conservative. I believe personal freedom and privacy are supremely important. I am uniformly unimpressed with either ruling party.