I am a progressive liberal - I think Obama is as leftist

[jmortimer]

From what research I've seen - i.e. polling data - generic self-identified "Democrats" are about 1/3 pro- gun and 2/3 anti-gun. Seeing that self-identified "liberal/progressives" make up about 20% of the population one might estimate that at most 5% to 10% of the 20% self-identified "liberals" would be "pro-gun" - common sense would also dictate such a conclusion. This thread seem to be "troll" based. As for Veterans, they should vote Republican because active duty votes Republican 2/3 to 1/3 Democrat so in order to truly support our troops vote how they vote at least for President/Commander in Chief - just simple respect. In every election cycle that I can remember Democrats have gone to court to block active duty absentee votes. Few things are worse than that.

 

[outofpractice]

I understand where you're going, Cyclops. We shouldn't renege on the duty to point out when someone strolls/falls down a slippery slope. The trick, I think, is what's reasonable- but that's something that needs (a lot of) work.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

i do not think this is a troll thread, just a thr member venting and hoping some good can happen

if 1/3 of dems are pro gun and 2/3 are anti- i think that middle 1/3 would be turned to pro very quickly if they had just one positive shooting experience... the last 1/3 is as hopeless as the tea party folk...

but that's something that needs (a lot of) work.

that right there is the ONE point that keeps this argument from ever finding common ground... the extremists on both sides will not give any ground

kramer logic

love it!

 

[jmortimer]

The most fertile ground would be self-identified "independents" - If you are a member of a party dedicated to limiting gun rights, i.e. Democrats, then I think independents are the best place to spend time and $$$.

 

[sonick808]

gofastman: good thing they're for you! Without them, you wouldnt' be shooting today

I disagree with the NRA often but still pay my dues

I feel that anyone who is "turning in their membership" should also turn in their guns. Why would you want to weaken the ONLY lobby wielding that kind of power to preserve RKBA ? Even if you hated EVERYTHING about them, don't you agree with RKBA ?

It just doesn't make any sense to me. If you like to keep your arms, you should be a member, period

 

[cyclopsshooter]

Churchill said that a fundamentalist is one that won't change his mind and can't change the topic.

I do find the idea of independent candidates tantalizing... but the real problem facing our society is not politicians, but rather a population that screams out for what they (the individual) wants... without any consideration for their fellow citizens-

It has become much easier to hate and turn oneself off than to have empathy and understanding for your neighbor

Americans once prided themselves on their ability to compromise, (a true gift of democratic values )

 

[jfh]

jmortimer has nailed it:

he identified the group that most likely can be influenced on firearms issues.

Now, what's the proposal for an action plan?

Jim H.

 

[don]

Ilikelead, greetings. My name is Don. I am a liberal in the classical sense and am an avid shooter, reloader, hunter and strong supporterof the second amendment. Now you know two.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

The only action we have is to be thoughtful, respectable, responsible gun owners-

teach our values- power grows from the barrel of a rifle- we the people-

without overreacting to the election of a democratic president :banghead:

 

[gofastman]

cyclopsshooter, that was very well said (typed)
However, I would argue that some level of narcissism is not only good, but mandatory for survival.
The world is a much smaller place than it was even 10 years ago, and things are becoming less and less black and white every day, requiring new ideas and thinking. New ideas and thinking scare EVERYONE to some level.

sonik808, thats just fine, they still wont get a dime, or any other support from me.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

there is absolutely nothing wrong with new ideas! the only other option is to sit in the mud and pout

 

[gofastman]

I agree, but it is basic human psychology to fear change and the unknown.

 

[sonick808]

gofast: why not ?

 

[luigi]

FWIW this guy is posting over on DUng trying to get people to come here, and encourage liberals to join the NRA. He seems to think it's a big deal and had quite a bit to say about how nauseatingly Right Wing THR is

 

[UpTheIrons]

I totally don't believe that 50% of gun owners in the USA are liberals. I think it's more like 10-20 percent.

I only know 1 liberal gun owner.

Well, I'm glad that's settled.

Looks like someone else is making it up as they go along, too. I know several liberal gun owners, so does that mean I can claim the 50% figure is right and you are wrong?

C'mon everyone - this argument isn't helping anything. dogngun is trying to build support in the RKBA community and all 'we' can do is bitch and moan about his (admittedly suspect) statistics?

So what if he IS right? So what if he's wrong? Our ranks MUST grow if we are to keep our arms. That is not in dispute.

Infighting will not help.
Complaining about hunters who don't care about black rifles won't help.
Complaining about black rifle owners who don't like hunters won't help.
Complaining that the NRA is a bunch of doddering goofs won't help.
Complaining that "liberals" are all stoopid about guns won't help.
Complaining that "the right" is paranoid won't help.

Take the "High Road" and be positive about this stuff - take an anti (or a middle of the roader, etc.) to the range and show them why you like this sport so much.

Here endeth the rant.

 

[UpTheIrons]

FWIW this guy is posting over on DUng trying to get people to come here, and encourage liberals to join the NRA. He seems to think it's a big deal and had quite a bit to say about how nauseatingly Right Wing THR is

After reading some of these replies, I'm starting to wonder if he is right.

 

[ejbrush]

Take a minute to appreciate THR,

because it is one of the few places where liberals and progressives will actively post on a gun site and stir up the pot a little bit.

The great failure of the internet is that it sets up little echo chambers where we can hide and only hear people who think like us, talk like us, see the world like us. I don't think the RKBA folks can afford to be myopic in this day and age. Numbers like 1/3, 2/3, 99 44/100 get bandied about, but the fact is that unless more young people come into shooting to replace those passing on to their just rewards, we'll become relevant as the Shakers.

Yeah, there is a chunk of the left that would love to see the guns melted into glockenspiels so everyone could sing KumByAh around the campfire. I put their numbers at roughly the same as the number on the right who adamantly believe that getting rid of all taxes will magically make everyone rich enough to light stogies with $100 bills. They are irrelevant - they are loud, they bray like donkeys and they will always be so.

It is the vast middle where the future of shooting will be made or broken. I think the key to winning more people to the sport is to accept that not everyone that is going to come into the sport in the coming years is conservative. I'm a Democrat - a liberal - a progressive - and I love to shoot. I love talking about shooting, I love the mechanics of firearms, I love hunting. I'm not much of a killer, and have a large tally of whitetail I've watched through the crosshairs without ever bothering to take off the safety, but that's a personal choice.

I want to feel like I am part of the shooting sports family. What's more useful to that family - more parrots in the echo chamber, or more liberals who work within their party against gun control efforts?

As an aside, this particular progressive looks at President Obama as being at about the same place on the political football field as Richard M. Nixon - on the right side of the field, maybe at the 30 yard line.

 

[AKElroy]

I am a conservative activist, very political, but I spend time here to escape it. I welcome liberal gun activist here. At worst, we add to those defending our rights. At best, from a political standpoint, I see potential allies if/when these rights become threatened. Like the saying goes, there are no athiest in foxholes, and few if any gun owners pulling the lever for anyone intent on depriving them of their liberty, regardless the party.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

The great failure of the internet is that it sets up little echo chambers where we can hide and only hear people who think like us, talk like us, see the world like us.

very apt

 

[Nushif]

Fear not, because all of you know now know (of) one pretty leftwing "liberal." (I guess)
And he loves shooting stuff.

 

[jfh]

I'm all for feel-good relationships between people

who self-identify with different social groups and ideologies. But, that feel-good-ism has little to do with THR's mission statement for posts in activism.

The point is, discussions like this eventually--usually sooner than later--get derailed, either by a) one party who does take offense and offers a smack-down or other snarky comment, or b) a drift into a political argument.

That's why a THR requirement for posting in this 'activism' forum requires a plan. an action plan--without it, this thread will self-destruct and / or be closed.

See this sticky post at the top.

Jim H.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

yeah, it is hard to moderate these kind of threads but sometimes it is fun to play. the mods have my appreciation for letting this one ride this long

 

[dec41971]

I also think there are more lefties on here than most of you will ever guess. They are just not as vocal as the righties. And then there are a bunch in the middle still. No such thing as just one uniform group when it comes to 2A rights. I personally know an extreme righty and a couple of really Lefty guys. You would never guess it, because they mostly act as if they are disinterested, but what I have found is they are just as passionate, just maybe a terd shy compared to those on the right.

Now can we all just get along? Please??

 

[jfh]

Speaking as one who has been through these kinds of discussions before--I've come to the conclusion that they are mostly a waste of time. The "issues" we end up discussing are typically simple excursions in to faulty syllogisms and the terms we use for self-identification are easily deconstructed. The end result is that we can all sit around and feel a slight buzz from our latest pass at kumbaya, sung online. Mental masturbation, no more than that.

At the end of the day, that buzz and $4.00 (or whatever) will buy you a Starbucks coffee. Unless we have definable, behavioral-change goals combined with specific, concrete and discrete, well-organized plans to effect those goals, the discussion belongs over in APS.

Jim H.

 

[goon]

Ilikelead - now counting the OP and me, you know three!

I don't know where I fall on the political spectrum, but it ain't conservative.
Not that I have much else to add to the conversation...