I am still livid!

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CAnnoneer

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Yesterday, I watched a documentary on the shootout between two bank robbers and the LAPD. I am still flaming livid! :fire:

Prologue:
Two perps in body armor, jacked up on muscle relaxants, armed with two AK's in .223, one HK G3, and assorted smaller guns, hit a California bank branch, bag 300k, and try to haul a$$. Unbeknownst to them, two LEOs in a patrol car have seen them enter the bank with AKs exposed, so as the perps exit the bank they run into several detectives and uniformed cops waiting outside behind patrol cars.

Act I
Perps nonchalantly open fire, praying and spraying with .223. Patrolmen's body armor is useless and the detectives don't even have armor. LEOs answer with handguns and a shotgun, to no apparent effect. Several patrolmen are wounded very quickly, one of them seriously. Detective realizes if they stay at such close range without adequate cover, they are dead, so they pull out toward a nearby dental office. The heavily wounded patrolmen is trying to pull out in a different direction but one of the perps moves to finish him off and scores more hits. Officer manages to crawl a good distance, but is barely conscious due to loss of blood.

Act II
Policemen realize they need rifles and call SWAT. In fact, they have requested long arms in the past, but have been denied such (?!). In desperation, some officers run to the nearest gun shop and borrow several long arms and matching ammo. Other officers take cover behind a brick wall, but perps' .223 go through the wall like through butter and wound several! The wounded detective and patrolman make it to the dental office, where the dentist applies first aid to the wounds. The heavily wounded patrolman is bleeding alone by a tree.

Act III
SWAT is on their way from the police academy. Two patrolmen drive in their police car through a hail of .223 automatic fire to grab and evacuate wounded officers from the parking lot of the bank. Head shots on the perps are authorized through the radio (with what?! :banghead: ). The patrolman by the tree goes incoherent.

Act IV
The perps have been "suppressing resistance" at the parking lot for perhaps half an hour now. Having had enough fun with automatic fire for one day, they reload yet again and try to haul a$$ in a banged up escape compact car. One of the perps drives the car with their arsenal and the money bags while the other walks by and sprays autofire all around. Meanwhile, an armored bank security truck is given to patrolmen by concerned civilian security officers that have been watching the TV coverage. Patrolmen drive the truck into the area to use it as an evacuation vehicle for wounded patrolmen. The bleeding patrolman by the tree is finally picked up and transported to a hospital.

Act V
LEOs shoot off the tires of the escape vehicle. One of the perps falls behind, gets a stovepipe jam just as he is about to kill a patrolman, discards his AK, pulls out a handgun exchanges a few shots with the police, and shoots himself through the jaw as a police bullet dislocates his spine. The other perp gets out of the escape compact, exchanges his AK for the G3, sprays more, gets back into the car, drives for some distance, hijacks a truck but the fleeing owner has taken the keys. SWAT finally arrives but cannot use their MP5's because the 9mm won't penetrate the body armor. SWAT is limited to the few M16's they have. They engage the perp with M16's at a distance of less than 20 yards, firing under the stopped car and truck. The perp finally gives up for unspecified reason. He is taken into custody but bleeds to death on the street because a rumor of a third gunman keeps the paramedics away.

Epilogue
In light of the dozen wounded officers and civilians, a permission has been given to the PD to "start training SOME officers in the use of M16's".

One does not know to laugh or to cry...

One thing is certain. My elected officials will get an earful of a letter.
 
When Charles Whitman went on his shooting spree in the tower at UT Austin he was pinned down by return fire from civilians using deer rifles. The police had nothing that would reach him, only .38 revolvers and a 12ga shotgun. Bureaucracies underequipping officers is nothing new.

What really would have made a difference in that Hollywood bank robbery is if the police didn't bungle the arrest of the perps for armed robbery the previous year. Both robbers were in custody and the PD seized the weapons. They didn't even bother to check to see if they were legal or not. If anyone knew anything about weapons at that PD I think it'd have been apparent that those guns had illegal autosears in them and they could have kept them in jail and handed it off to the ATF. After the perps were released they gave the illegal MGs back to the robbers.
 
One thing is certain. My elected officials will get an earful of a letter.
Get an earful of letter about what? This thing happened in like 94 or something (I forget when). Your elected officials already took care of the situation by banning assault weapons and .50 BMG firearms in order to prevent this from happening again. :rolleyes:
 
estimated 1110 rounds from three fully automatic AK-47s, a .223 fully automatic Bushmaster rifle, a .308 semiautomatic H&K and a semiautomatic 9mm Beretta handgun :what: that musta been an earfull ;)
 
When Charles Whitman went on his shooting spree in the tower at UT Austin he was pinned down by return fire from civilians using deer rifles.
Yes, it's an interesting fact that armed civilians with long-range weapons played a major role in that situation. A lot of the time you hear the saying, "civilians don't need long-range weapons for defensive use" but it just isn't true.

Contrast this with the Columbine masacre where the police prevented civilians from taking any action and made sure the killers had complete freedom to do whatever they wanted to do. Police and civilians should be ready to cooperate with eachother and work together in situations like this, meaning armed police and armed civilians working together in such extreme situations.
 
Where could you go to get a video of this? I saw it on TV a long time ago, but I'd like an accessible video for reference.
 
Get an earful of letter about what?

About how I am going to vote against them in the next election unless they personally take steps that LEOs in my state are properly equipped to defend themselves and stop the next POS smackhead that decides to play Rambo in my backyard!

Where could you go to get a video of this? I saw it on TV a long time ago, but I'd like an accessible video for reference.

I saw it on the History channel. They likely offer a DVD/VHS of the program on their website.
 
CAnnoneer, that was OVER 10 YEARS AGO!

The response was to ban certain firearms in CA.
 
Yep they banned the civilian firearms that were donated to the police to end the standoff. If that stupid law had been in effect at the time I imagine the robbers would be off in Aruba or Cozumel somewhere living up the good life.
 
Actually it happened 8 yrs ago and since LA isnt a hot bed of people who love their PD, good luck to you.

Joe
 
About how I am going to vote against them in the next election unless they personally take steps that LEOs in my state are properly equipped to defend themselves and stop the next POS smackhead that decides to play Rambo in my backyard!
Woah! You are a little behind the times. Second, they don't care. Since this happened these people have banned all sorts of your guns and simply supplied those police forces with more. They don't care what you think. You must be a young idealist. I once was. Then I kept realizing that we lost when we shouldn't have. Now I don't count on California to get anything to go my way. Good luck with your campaign.
 
One armed citizen with a deer rifle or something like an M1A could have stopped those dirtbags dead in their tracks. It's too bad the liberal unrepresentatives have spent their time disempowering, and encouraging the disarmament of their constituents.
 
I find it a little ironic that a place that has made so much money (taxes,
tourism, and such) by block buster movies with GUNS... GUNS... GUNS hates
their own people having what I would call a state icon. :scrutiny:
 
About how I am going to vote against them in the next election unless they personally take steps that LEOs in my state are properly equipped to defend themselves and stop the next POS smackhead that decides to play Rambo in my backyard!

Unfortunatly, the only person who isnt in a position to defend themselves in your own backyard is you, that was the solution that was chosen for this problem.
 
first, nobody gets "jacked up" on muscle relaxants.

second, the only full auto rifle was the .308, the aks were both semi. if you watch the video and ignore or mute the sound you can see the perps firing individual, albeit poorly aimed shots.

third, could have been alot worse. if those jackasses knew how to hit a target, it would have been a bloodbath. luckily, they were terrible marksmen and the only deaths in the whole situation were their own.

lastly, ANY rifle in the hands of a capable marksman would have ended the problem quickly and decisively. a 10/22 could have easily scored a head shot at the distances involved. any bureaucrat who denies police officers the tools necessary to their job should be strung up by the toes and fed to angry crackheads. it is my belief that EVERY patrol vehicle should have at least one rifle AND one shotgun. officers need much more frequent firearms training and every officer should be able to pursue more advanced training at no expense to them, not just firearms training, either. police helicopters should have a door gunner armed with a .gov surplus m60. army isn't using them anymore, give them a good home. one six round burst into the engine compartment of a fleeing felon's vehicle would quickly and safely stop a dangerous pursuit. of course, we'll never see this happen. the public doesn't mind being endagered by these unbelievably hazardous chases but would perceive the judicious application of a few machinegun rounds as unacceptable. go figure.
 
Dude, they've equipped alot more police in your 'hood with AR's and some departments went to .45's.
LAPD now has M16's
http://www.cnn.com/US/9709/22/m16s/
And the ability to choose thier own caliber handgun
http://www.policeone.com/policeone/...&search=FRARM&operation=full_article&id=67659

You're only about 8 or 10 years behind the curve on this one.
Oh, and in response to people like you, demanding "something be done" the Kalifornistan legislature has enacted all kinds of new gun legislation, including the .50bmg ban. Oh, but the LAPD has .50's
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/836082/posts
 
For TV Movie was made
'44 Minutes - The North Hollywood Shootout'

It has the guy from Office Space in it. It was done 'okay'.

Secondly, Chop, have you seen the 'real' footage with sound? I am almost positive (if I remember correctly) that the AKs did have autosears, as others have stated. The firing rate is impossible (if my ears remember correctly) in semi mode. However, the 're-enactments' just have the guys pulling the trigger fast and sloppy to simulate it. They didn't even use the correct arms in the remakes (Romanian and MAK if I remember correctly).

p3
 
CAnnoneer!

If a shootout way back in 1994 (that'd be the second year of the first Clinton administration) pisses you off this much, wait until you hear about THIS one!

An entire unit of America's finest troops were wiped because the US Army REFUSED to arm its troops with the latest, rapid-fire rifles.

They were forced to use single-shot rifles that even had cartridge casings that swelled up on firing, thus jamming the rifle and making it useless!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Talk about LIVID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hillbilly
 
BTW, the "armored bank security truck" is an Armored Transport Level 5 armored truck, and the driver was an AT employee. LAPD wouldn't sign for truck and contents, so they piled all the currency up front behind the bulkhead, and the original driver piloted the behemoth during the entire incident. AT also provided the Unit 98 Van, AT's version of SWAT, which went to roadblocks handing out Mini 14s. A third armored showed up right after it was all over.
The movies screw everything up....
 
Contrast this with the Columbine masacre where the police prevented civilians from taking any action and made sure the killers had complete freedom to do whatever they wanted to do. Police and civilians should be ready to cooperate with eachother and work together in situations like this, meaning armed police and armed civilians working together in such extreme situations.

This doctrinal shift, that the citizens must be actively prevented from doing anything useful, "for their own protection", has done more to enfeeble the populace and set the police above us as an armed elite than anything other factor that I can think of at the moment.

It is also a central factor that cost us 3,000 lives on 9/11, when this was the official advice.

"When hijacked, do not resist. Do not draw attention to yourself. Wait for it to be sorted out on the ground."

Never again.
 
Dude, they've equipped alot more police in your 'hood with AR's and some departments went to .45's.LAPD now has M16's

Hmm. It seems I have been out of touch. I did not notice it in the news when it happened, so seeing the documentary was my first exposure and I assumed it was far more recent. It is good to know the LAPD has what they need.

This makes me think though, if the dumbass bureaucracy had armed the LAPD when they had requested, then the two perps would have been dead in 2min and probably the antis would not have gained nearly as much steam to push through the AWB in Cali. That gets me thinking that some sneaky POSs may have purposefully denied the rearming request just so that something like this might eventually happen and provide them with the pretext for the AWB. Naah, I give them too much credit for cunning. The same result would be produced by sheer stupidity.

An entire unit of America's finest troops were wiped because the US Army REFUSED to arm its troops with the latest, rapid-fire rifles.They were forced to use single-shot rifles that even had cartridge casings that swelled up on firing, thus jamming the rifle and making it useless!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That sounds like Custer's unit armed with Springfields in 1876, while the Sioux had large quantities of Winchesters. That one is even more appalling but better understood in the light of the rampant corruption in high places in the post-Civil-War period, especially during Grant's administration. At least we know where to point the finger.

:cuss:
 
Cannoneer, there's a post script to your epilogue......

The City of Los Angeles paid a huge (undisclosed) sum of money to the children of the second perp to avoid a wrongful death settlement since they didn't provide timely medical care for him.

The interviews with local residents on the History Channel made MY blood boil!
The locals were siding with the criminals, castigating the police for "inhumane" treatment of the wounded perp. They would have made compelling witnesses for some scumbag ambulance chaser in a jury trial.

The citizens of Los Angeles have the police department that they deserve. A huge bureauracracy rife with corruption, careerism, and abuse. Pretty much inept. An agency to be feared by the citizenery akin to the BATF. I'm certain that there are individual officers who serve honorably, but their department as a whole is nothing to be proud of.
 
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