I am still livid!

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I saw that History Channel program also. Note that the officers only had politically correct and departmentally approved side arms. That would be 9mm with approved safety and trigger action mechanisms. Not having all ranks of officers running around with rifle options is very likely a political decision.
 
I've watched that video several times.

One thing I have never been able to understand is the failure of the officers to make a head shot on the one that was walking.

OK, I recognize that most police officers are not pistoleros and I also realize that I have way better than average skill with a handgun. I've qualified in the Marines with a Beretta 92, and I know that I could have scored a headshot at 50 yds, especially if in a position to rest the pistol on the hood of a patrol car or up against a tree/corner of building. There were officers all around the area, and they were not all being directly engaged at all times during the encounter. I just will never understand this.
 
About how I am going to vote against them in the next election unless they personally take steps that LEOs in my state are properly equipped to defend themselves and stop the next POS smackhead that decides to play Rambo in my backyard!
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With all due respect to any law enforcement officers here, am I the only one distrusting enough to be skeptical of giving police officers anything constituting real firepower? I have had too many bad run-ins with police and not enough good run-ins to trust police with much more than their service pistol, if that. Maybe police in Montana are just morons, I don't know, but I think efforts would be best spent, if not more effectively then at least more nobely, requesting your representatives restore your right to defend yourself rather than supplying an arsenal to the police force that enforces current laws to deny you this right...
 
With all due respect to any law enforcement officers here, am I the only one distrusting enough to be skeptical of giving police officers anything constituting real firepower?
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They don't trust you, so you're even. :evil:
 
It occurred Feb 28th 1997. The AWB was already in effect. California AWB went into Effect Jan 1 2000. I say that because people keep saying 1994 the AWB wasn't a result of this well atleast not the fed one.

I believe it was a B&B gun shop which has since been run out of state.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9702/28/shootout.update/
Police borrow guns, ammo from a gun shop
Officers who initially responded to Friday's robbery, carrying standard-issue 9 millimeter Baretta handguns, were in trouble.

"Tactically, the first officers that arrived were at a severe disadvantage," weapons expert and former LAPD officer Dave Butler said. "Police carry 15 rounds. They would need to re-load."

Stunned officers were out-gunned to such a degree that at one point they burst into a gun store, and walked out with more powerful guns and ammunition.

Police "came in a panic because their weapons weren't good enough to fight these people," said the store's president, who would identify himself only as Bob.

"These people had body armor and they needed something that would break body armor," he said. "We supplied them with slugs that would at least break bones on someone wearing body armor."

Added the LAPD's McBride: "We have many suspects who have multiple guns, and they continue to out-gun us and fire at us at will."
 
Forget that documentary. This is the video you want:

North Hollywood Shoot-Out

Loaded with real footage taken by camera crews on the ground and in choppers. Lots of close-ups of the action, you can even see the folding stock on one rifle. The perps obviously had automatic weapons. This is not a documentary like you would see on the History Channel. Most of this video is explained by a news photographer who happened to be there when it happened. He and a friend actually followed the bad guys around to witness all the action and he explains everything as he saw it. It also has commentary from a local gun shop owner who was called for help when it started, the PD went to his shop for help and he loaned them a bunch of rifles with mags and ammo. Also has commentary from several of the cops who were involved, they explain what was happening, what they thought was happeneing, why they did this or that, why they didn't do this or that, etc. Sheds a whole different light on the subject when you hear it from the guys that were in it, not from someone narrating a documentary. Also shows the kill shots when both bad guys went down (one killed himself, one was shot by the PD). And one cop explains why they didn't give the guy they shot immediate medical attention (it wasn't negligence, like the media portrayed it).

Ignore the TV movies and documentaries narrated by people that get paid to talk up a good story. This video shows what happened, and you'll hear the story from the horse's mouth (the cops that were in it) and witnesses.
 
Police "came in a panic because their weapons weren't good enough to fight these people," said the store's president, who would identify himself only as Bob.
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B&B is the shop, and Bob is the owner. He appears in the video explaining his part in the whole thing.
 
A couple of questions:
Which guns were full-auto? And where did the bad guys get them? (They're illegal for felons to own. New full-autos can't even be made for civilain use, so these had to be pre-86 weapons, right?)

I thought the borrowed guns never made it into the fight? SWAT showed up (in squad cars, in their shorts!)
 
Did anyone catch this statistic and wonder about it?

1,100 rounds fired by the armed bank robbers
800 rounds fired by the police

How many wounded and dead??? Something like 2 dead (2 perps) and 8 wounded.

Granted body armor for both the perps stopped a lot of the police's 800 rounds, the history channel said something like only 15 rounds were found in the body armor of one perp (so I assume about the same of the other).

Pretty crappy if you ask me. I know this is very armchair commando of me to say this, but GEEZ, that's some pretty low numbers statistically. Almost below 1 percent hit ratio.

Enforces the second rule of gun fighting. Hit what you aim at. (first rule of course is "have a gun").
 
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Granted body armor for both the perps stopped a lot of the police's 800 rounds, the history channel said something like only 15 rounds were found in the body armor of one perp (so I assume about the same of the other).

Pretty crappy if you ask me. I know this is very armchair commando of me to say this, but GEEZ, that's some pretty low numbers statistically. Almost below 1 percent hit ratio.
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IIRC, from watching the history channels program on it last night, that roughly 30 rounds combined(perhaps just shy of 30) hit the 2 perps combined.

Which guns were full-auto
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@ least one AK & one AR...
the hk91 is clearly semi-auto in the video footage
 
This is a stupid arguement but it does somewhat hold true.

If AW/machine guns were so deadly like the VPC and Swinestein say, don't you think the entire city of Burbank would have been devastated when these 2 perps let loose with 1,100 rounds of "evil" assault weapons ammo.

I'd thought there would at least be few thousands dead, a couple of jet liners blown out of the sky, police cars reduced to a pile of scrap metal and all the wankers of the every male citizenry (within a 4 mile radius) to mysteriously fall off???

I think the VPC and Swinestein may have been fibbing a little.
 
They never tire of this video. They'll be showing this for another 20 years I'll bet.
 
The LAPD has many problems but they have a GREAT publicity team. The videotape will be cut and edited with professional quality equipment. The LAPD brass will come out smelling like a rose.
 
I just saw The Great Raid. I'm livid, I'll be writing a letter to my elected officials about the treatment of US POWs by Japanese military :rolleyes: .
 
In the infamous Miami shootout it was not a "long range" issue, it was a "pure firepower" issue. The FBI had revos, semi autos and shotguns. They were outgunned by two guys with serious full auto firepower. The two guys in question also had no fear of death and would not stop fighting even though both had potentially fatal wounds (Hence the famous quote: "they were already dying, they just weren't dying fast enough."

It becomes a question as to whether it makes sense to issue "MILITARY BATTLE RESPONSE LEVEL" hardware to all officers to respond to events which happen maybe once every ten years...?

In theory, bad guys could easily get RPG's and .50 caliber machine guns. It's just a question of where you draw the line.
 
Bountyhunter, actually I think Matix and Platt had a semi-auto Mini-14 and a pump shotgun (Winchester 1200?) All of the casualties were inflicted by the Mini-14 armed gunman.

Agree with you though, they were certainly some serious badguys.

Personally I'm all in favor of cops having rifles in their cars. In a situation like this, (or the many many others that don't get news coverage) I want them to be able to take an accurate, powerful shot, and end the problem. Rather than have a 2,000 round running gunfight take place through my neighborhood. :)
 
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