I could not get arrested

[MAURICE]

Arkie,
I do most of my gun shopping there.
Not as of late though. Broke.
Cuz I am building an AR

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

This is why I quit going to places like wal-mart, cabelas, etc. Now, I only go to mom and pop gun shops.

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

This is why I quit going to places like wal-mart, cabelas, etc. Now, I only go to mom and pop gun shops.

 

[CrazyIrishman]

Skidmark,

Congrats on your self control. You have much more patience than I do! After reading your post "anal-retentive" isn't the first thing that comes to mind! LOL

After having problems buying ammo at HELL-MART because of the morons they hire I no longer go there.

I learned a long time ago NOT to have a "Battle of the WITS with an unarmed person" ! OH, GEEZ, I'm REALLY sorry y'all. I should have said don't have a "Battle of the WITS with WALMART ASSOCIATES" !

Asking a Wally World employee a question is worse than trying to teach a PIG how to sing! The PIG will get confused and you'll become frustrated and PO'ed!

 

[Optical Serenity]

Policeman #2 handed the form to me and said I was free to go. Policeman #2 told "Manager," "Asst. Manager," "Security" and "Associate" that they had come very close to making him place a person (me) under false arrest, and that he was not happy about that.

Next time, I'm going to walk out of the store and let them arrest me. I could use the money.

If the officer had arrested you for the store, its just that, for the store. Here in GA they fill out a "private arrest form" and hand it to us, we transport you because they cannot, and they have 4 hours to obtain a warrant to keep you in jail, and bring official charges. It is not on us unless somehow we hurt you during the arrest...We, as the law enforcement officer, are not the reason you are under arrest, it is the store...

Skidmark, life is too short to worry about such silly things. It comes down to this, don't you have better things to do in your life than give this walmart employee so much hassle? Who cares? You know the poor guy was probably just trying to do his job...I agree, its a PITA trying to buy a gun from them, but I'm very thankful Walmart still sells guns...They could be like K-mart and stop all gun and ammo sales. Then maybe you will be happy?

I don't care when people ask me for a form of ID even though I know the GA firearms permit is good enough, i just show them...Big deal, move on...

IMO it really isn't worth my time to sit there and try to prove all this stuff to a bunch of people...I'd rather have spent that extra time at the range with my new gun

Unfortunately I have dealt with the cops and I don't think highly of them and I sure in the hell don't believe or trust them. When You take advantage of someone's trust and honesty it truly shows how much of a lowlife you are.

Such a ridiculous post that I won't even respond to this. You obviously didn't read the whole post...as the officers were only there to do as walmart was requesting...

 

[MrTwigg]

I have met associates similar to this guy...

...at the Dick's Sporting Goods in Leominster, Massachusetts. :banghead: !

Now I drive 10 miles further in the other direction and go to Keen, N.H. (and don't have to pay any sales tax!) !

 

[dmftoy1]

...at the Dick's Sporting Goods in Leominster, Massachusetts. :banghead: !

Now I drive 10 miles further in the other direction and go to Keen, N.H. (and don't have to pay any sales tax!) !

Yup, bought exactly 1 gun from Dick's and never will again. I got a lecture from one of their associates about the "evils" of handgun ammo and how they would never carry it because it couldn't be used for hunting. (was trying to buy .50 S&W) I pointed out to him that there was .45acp FMJ on the shelf right behind him . . . .go some mumbled response under his breath. Most of the guys who work there are hunters (in our area) but if the company policy is that they won't even order ammo for me then screw'em.

Have a good one,
Dave

 

[Molon Labe]

Skidmark, life is too short to worry about such silly things. It comes down to this, don't you have better things to do in your life than give this walmart employee so much hassle? Who cares?

IMO it really isn't worth my time to sit there and try to prove all this stuff to a bunch of people...I'd rather have spent that extra time at the range with my new gun

Have you ever done anything based on principle? Or are all your decisions based on expediency and convenience?

I always stand up for my rights, even if it means inconveniencing myself and those around me.

 

[skidmark]

Originally Posted by Optical Serenity
Skidmark, life is too short to worry about such silly things. It comes down to this, don't you have better things to do in your life than give this walmart employee so much hassle? Who cares?

IMO it really isn't worth my time to sit there and try to prove all this stuff to a bunch of people...I'd rather have spent that extra time at the range with my new gun

Response by Molon Labe
Have you ever done anything based on principle? Or are all your decisions based on expediency and convenience?

I always stand up for my rights, even if it means inconveniencing myself and those around me.

I forget who said it first, or if these are the precise words, but: The only way to ensure your rights are regognized is to exercise them."

I had nothing in mind about giving "Associate" any hassel, except that involved in clarifying that my VA CHP was acceptable. Please recall that "Associate" was agreeable to checking with the State Police on that, and that he made the call. Once he found out the CHP was OK, he started to proceed with the paperwork. It was after he irked me with his officiousness that I decided, as you say, that "life is too short to worry about such silly things" and wanted to pack up and leave it all behind.

I did not mind too much that "Associate" said I could not take the Form 4473 with me, but minded the escalation of "Asst. Manager,' "Manager," and "Security" who all threatened to have me arrested. All "Associate" did was realize he was in over his head and called for those who were supposed to be wiser and more experienced.

I'd also like to stress that this was not intended as a Wally World bash-fest. It just happened to take place there, but the same sort of thing goes on every day a other retail sites - maybe just a different product. Remind me never to tell you the story of the soccer mom trying to buy a video game for her young son. Kid was obviously under the PG-13 or whatever rating on the box, but was so excited that Mommy was going to get it that the attention of (I'm guessing) the "official store rule-enforcer of public morals" came over and tried to eject soccer mom & kid. As I know soccer mom, I know that the affair was settled out of court and there was enough cash for young son to buy a video game a week for the rest of his life.

If "Asst. Manager," "Manager," or "Security" had offered to check things out with BATFE, instead of calling the cops before I had even walked out of the store with the form, you would never have heard about this episode. What got my feathers all ruffled was the BS "reasons" that were given as to why I could not walk out with the form. It started with "it's Wal-Mart property." I'm not sure if things went downhill from there, as that's pretty far into la-la land as a leadoff statement. When we agreed to disagree, they played their "trump card" - call the cops.

Once policeman #1 & policeman #2 arrived, they wanted to get clarification of the law, rules and regulations before they ended up arresting anybody. In Virginia, private security can either arrest and then needs to either issue a citation/transport to a Magistrate for a warrant & bail hearing, or call the cops. The cops will arrest on the basis of probable cause and written complaint of the store - if they agree with what the store says meets probable cause. Since most private security do not bother to obtain the citation forms, and do not want to risk transporting, the custom has been to detain and call the cops to make the actual arrest.

Policeman #1 was obviously younger than policeman #2, and was most likely also the junior man on the team. Policeman #2 seemed to recognize that arresting somebody over the taking away of a form had the potential for turing into a "Big Deal" and he did not want to get involved in that unless there was no alternative. Policeman #2 took charge by saying that he was going to check and find out if I in fact could leave with the Form 4473 in my possession before anything else was done - like arresting me.

Now one Wally World knows that a Virginia CHP is an acceptable form of secondaty ID, and that until the firearms transaction is completed BATFE has no interest in the Form 4473 being filed.

I do not think my time was wasted. I do not think the incident will cause that Wally World, or the entire corporate structre, to stop selling firearms.

I do think that "Asst. Manager," "Manager," and "Security" still think they know everything they need to know and that this incident will not change how they behave. But that's OK, because I do not expect anything else.

Wally World has its reasons for existing, and I have my reasons for shopping there or not.

In the meantime, it's clear and cold out. I'm going back to the range to shoot.

stay safe.

skidmark

 

[jtward01]

I would have just crumbled up the form, set it on fire, drop it on the floor and walked out of the store

After which you most likely would have been arrested for attempted arson of an occupied building, a most serious felony.

 

[jtward01]

...as the officers were only there to do as walmart was requesting...

As much respect as I have for most LEOs, I do have a problem with this concept. To say that they were there to "do as Walmart was requesting" implies that Walmart (or other big business) has a privileged position in society above that of the individual. Shouldn't the law, and therefore the police, be neutral? In this case you had a difference of opinion between the customer and the store management. The officer, by his own admission, was ignorant on the subject, but ready to arrest the customer based on the store's request. To me the most the police should do in this situation is to take the IDs of all involved and pass them to either investigators or the state's attorney so once the correctness of each party's position is determined charges, if warranted, can be filed. In this case the officer found a third solution and it all worked out, but I doubt many other officers would have gone to the trouble. Most, apparently, would have arrested skidmark which would have subjected him to the cost of bail and attorney's fees, at the least.

As far as recovery from a false arrest charge as long as both the store management and the police were acting in good faith (in other words, believed their actions were correct) it's unlikely there would have been any significant monetary reward.

 

[Meplat]

If the officer had arrested you for the store, its just that, for the store.

So I am to understand that Wal-Mart has at its disposal its own private secuirty force to order about at will in the form of tax payer funded police departments? Or can anyone call you at any time to have you arrest someone who happens to be on their property for any reason they might pull out of their asses, and you'd do so? I don't think so. Don't think the courts would look favorably on this policy of false arrest by sworn officers of the law, either, no matter what policy dictates.

Here in GA they fill out a "private arrest form" and hand it to us, we transport you because they cannot, and they have 4 hours to obtain a warrant to keep you in jail, and bring official charges.

"Hey, officer, this guy walked in with a booger in his nose hair - I want him in jail!" and you are going to blithely tote him off to the hooch and give me four hours to obtain a warrant to keep him there while the police department is held blameless for what is obviously false arrest? I somehow don't think your department is going to come out toooo far ahead when the matter reaches civil court. If it does, Georgia needs some REAL reform to its laws.

It is not on us unless somehow we hurt you during the arrest...We, as the law enforcement officer, are not the reason you are under arrest, it is the store...

So, I can buy me a piece of Georgia property, put up a sign enticing the public in, decide for any or no reason to have De Man come and arrest someone, and you guys are going to do my bidding in a "yassuh" fashion? Or are you going to tell me, "Sir, there is no law against nose-hair boogers and we can't arrest this man for that."? And BTW, when an individual is arrested by uniformed law officers that are under color of authority, it IS incumbent upon the police to have probable cause for arrest. Otherwise, LE has just become a private goon squad for hire.

Skidmark, life is too short to worry about such silly things. It comes down to this, don't you have better things to do in your life than give this walmart employee so much hassle?

Do the police in Georgia also decide what things are worthwhile for each individual? If Skidmark found to be a worthwhile and entertaining repast from his daily life to show up arrogant jerks, and broke no laws in doing so, then I would suggest he was doing EXACTLY what he wanted to be doing with his life at that time. And probably saving some other poor soul aggravation down the road.

Who cares?

Perhaps the people who refuse to put up with ignorant arrogant <>'s

You know the poor guy was probably just trying to do his job...

Not as Skidmark's story told it. He was being a snot-nosed arrogant punk who has no personal power, and wanted some.

I agree, its a PITA trying to buy a gun from them, but I'm very thankful Walmart still sells guns...They could be like K-mart and stop all gun and ammo sales. Then maybe you will be happy?

AAMOF, I WOULD be happy to see Wally-World close its doors completely. I know that when I buy a firearm, it is from a local dealer. One who will special order certain reloading components for me, or go out of his way to get a handgun I might want to purchase in stock....you get the idea. When I bought my son his first shotgun for squirrel, I had a choice. Get one at Wally-World, or from my local dealer and pay sixteen bucks more. Chose the local gunshop, he threw in two neat camo baseball caps with his company logo on them. Eight bucks a piece for matching Father/Son hats wasn't exorbitant to me. When I bought my daughter's first deer rifle, I wanted a certain stock on it. Nothing fancy...just a Savage 110 with the stock I wanted. While the locals at WM would still be standing at the counter, one finger in their mouth, my local dealer said, "Sure thing," and got the rifle I wanted on the way. Paid about twenty dollars more. Sadly, he's no longer in business. Short-sighted people kept wanting to save that twenty bucks. I wish them luck getting Wal-Mart to order that caddy of H-110 they want for their .357 and .44 mag reloads.

IMO it really isn't worth my time to sit there and try to prove all this stuff to a bunch of people...I'd rather have spent that extra time at the range with my new gun

That is your perogative. Just as it was Skidmark's perogative to show idiots a mirror. Free country - every man is entitled to his own entertainment as long as he's not voilating any laws. My only question in the matter is why anyone would WANT to buy a firearm from WM, as some others have asked. I certainly don't doubt his RIGHT to, though.

Such a ridiculous post that I won't even respond to this. You obviously didn't read the whole post...as the officers were only there to do as walmart was requesting...

If officers of the law are taking the stance that they can and should arrest anyone at anytime for anything WM requests, then I begin to understand the mistrust of some towards LEO's. Fortunately, I've been blessed in most of my dealings with LE to have run (mostly) into people like Officer No. 2 in Skid's story - ones who have enough initiative to rationally decide what is right and legal to do.

Once again, will you arrest someone at Wal-Mart's request for errant nose hair boogers? And if you do, would you let me buy tickets to watch when you explain that to your boss so he can explain it to hair-booger's lawyers and the local press?

 

[entropy]

Nobody works at Walmart because they're highly intelligent... they work there because they're not good enough for McDonalds.

Perhaps you should consider that there maybe be some Wal-Mart employees who are members here at The <not-so in gonzo beyondos case> High Road.

I am a Wal-Mart employee who happens to be highly intellegent, (is a 124 GT score good enough for you?) and chooses to work overnight stock at Wal-Mart so my sons don't have to be 'latchkey' kids.

There certainly are some Associates who act as has been described, unfortunately, and yes, I too have been on the customer side of the counter holding in my frustration with sporting goods sales associates that don't know every caliber and gauge in stock and have to have it pointed out to them.

But to paint every Wal-Mart associate as an ignoramus because some don't know 9mm from .45 ACP, or are afraid to lose a badly needed job over the company's overbearing restrictions concerning firearms sales, (makes me glad I don't work in Sporting Goods; Ironically, I also work at a gun shop, where I have done 4473s and thus know the feds' requirements.) is not very High Road.

 

[Optical Serenity]

No, I would not, nor would any officer, make an arrest simply because Walmart, Target, Parisian, etc, would fill out a private security arrest form. But it is the same as a "citizen's arrest." Basically you are making a sworn police report stating you witnessed a crime. You explain to me what you witnessed, and if I feel you have probable cause, then I transport them for you.

Now, that being said, I can't think of anyone around here making these type "transport arrests" without video evidence. Me, personally, and all the other guys I work with, would say "its a piece of paper, let the dude go.." or how about.."Lets all walk to the LP office and use a shredder, and get rid of it..."

That would have resolved it. Me personally, I wouldn't have even bothered calling a BATFE office, I would have either resolved it by shredding the paper or just told walmart to copy the paper, and take a warrant themselves later. Walmart (and anyone for that matter) can certainly apply for a warrant for shoplifting or Theft by Taking of the paper at a later time with the guy's information.

I never said I agreed with the clown walmart associate's way of handling things..in fact I don't...and the one time I bought a gun at walmart it was pretty unpleasant. But I did it because of price...

 

[tellner]

I would have just crumbled up the form, set it on fire, drop it on the floor and walked out of the store

Now that would have been a good reason to arrest you. Starting an uncontrolled fire in a public place is dangerous.

 

[Turkey Creek]

Congrats on your perserverence in this situation- acting on principle is to be commended especially if you have nothing better to do- my aging father is the same way- his speciality is to lead on telemarketers until they finally realize they are being had and hang up on him- I am less than a year from retirement and plan to follow in my father's and your footsteps- now for the coup de gras, you need to go back to this particular Wally World and make another purchase that you decide at the last minute to void and see if they learned anything- my guess will be that they haven't- cudos on your actions in this fiasco- in retirement I plan on thinking of myself as and educator when faced with similar stupidity- I'm impressed and can only hope to be worthy of you and my father

 

[hillbilly]

Okay, here's a curmudgeonly hillbilly's take on this.

As for all the talk about "principles" around this thread, here's a principle I stick to.

I don't buy stuff from people who are arrogant buttheads to me.

The second that Wal-Mart twit lectures me that he has been trained in gun sales and the law and that I have not, and therefore I should shut up and quit trying to telli him the law, that principle kicks in.

My principles require me, at that very moment, to tell that Wal-Mart associate he's an idiotic horse's ass and that Wal-Mart will not be getting any of my money and to walk out the door.

hillbilly

 

[adaman04]

UPDATE UPDATE!!! L L!

I really can't stand the knobslobberers wally world hires to man the counters. Half the time, I think the door-greeters are more knowledgeable about firearms and forms. I mean, I like the prices so... guess I just try and time my visit to coincide with one of the good employees... but this is why it's so damned important that we help keep *Private FFLs* around. (The good ones, the kitchen table guys.)

Imagine trying to get a transfer at walmart, for an AK from gunbroker, yeah right! LOL!

Wow. Do what I do. Print off the gun you want to buy off walmart.com and take it to Bass Pro, etc and they will usually match the price. My way of sticking it to the man. Also, my local guy will usually get within 20 bucks or so of Wal-Mart, so I spend the extra 20 and support my local guy.

 

[Meplat]

My principles require me, at that very moment, to tell that Wal-Mart associate he's an idiotic horse's ass and that Wal-Mart will not be getting any of my money and to walk out the door.

hillbilly

Sir, I salute you!

 

[possum]

Now either Wally World does not do much in the way of training,

Your right I used to work there many moons ago and i never recieved official trainning in gun sales, but with a little common sense, you can sell all day! We never had to have to forms of id!

 

[tom barthel]

arrested

Not worth the argument. I would take my blue pin and cover the information with blue ink, hand it back to them and leave. My next act would be to call the main office in bentonville, AR. The officers were just doing their jobs responding to a complaint. Sounds like a lot of things could have been done differantly. Let it go and just get on with your life. It;s not worth the hassle.

Tom

 

[Steelcore]

Take a sharpie with you and blot out the form and leave it.luckily mao mart doesn't carry any guns I'm interested in.

 

[Harry Stone]

Perhaps you should consider that there maybe be some Wal-Mart employees who are members here at The <not-so in gonzo beyondos case> High Road.

I am a Wal-Mart employee who happens to be highly intellegent, (is a 124 GT score good enough for you?) and chooses to work overnight stock at Wal-Mart so my sons don't have to be 'latchkey' kids.

There certainly are some Associates who act as has been described, unfortunately, and yes, I too have been on the customer side of the counter holding in my frustration with sporting goods sales associates that don't know every caliber and gauge in stock and have to have it pointed out to them.

But to paint every Wal-Mart associate as an ignoramus because some don't know 9mm from .45 ACP, or are afraid to lose a badly needed job over the company's overbearing restrictions concerning firearms sales, (makes me glad I don't work in Sporting Goods; Ironically, I also work at a gun shop, where I have done 4473s and thus know the feds' requirements.) is not very High Road.

All Wal-Mart employees are not idiots, I agree. My brother works there while he's trying to get a music career off the ground. He's not an idiot either.

The problem is that Wal-Mart trains these people in a way that allows them to be idiots, if they already are. Training someone that the only way something can be done is by rote procedure, instead of teaching them why something is done and then how, is fertile ground for bad customer relations.

 

[Dima]

Looks like all Walmarts are same! I had almost indentical story - I was going to buy .22 and, because I'm permanent resident, they told me that I have to have hunting license... Even after my application was approved by state police! I had it, but refused to buy anything in this store - sales people are absolutely non-competent! So, I went to Gander Mountains and bought nice CZ!

 

[GoBrush]

Way to go skidmark you really need to go on a letter writting campaign and send a letter to the district office, and Wally World head quarters in Bentonville. I would also file a complaint against the county for illegally detaining you.

NICE JOB