I don't understand Shotgun reloading recipes

[berettaprofessor]

Please enlighten me; I've loaded rifle and pistol for nearly a decade now and I'm used to the drill; find something similar to your bullet, look at a chart that suggests a minimum and maximum charge of your chosen powder for that bullet, and then, if you need to, do a powder ladder and refine your load.

But shotgun reloaders everywhere are adamant to stay strictly to specific recipes...and it's dangerous or supposedly dangerous, to substitute even another brand of hulls! 9mm reloading or 308, the Hodgdon manual doesn't specify the brass and demand you use no other brass manufacturer or primer maker within the minimum and maximum loads. Wad types, I can understand would affect the load, but why can't there be a similar chart for shotgun as for rifle reloading? One that gives a minimum and maximum charge of H110, for pushing 1/2 oz of shot out of a 410 hull...any hull. Heck, specifically with 410, the wads seem to be completely all the same, so why aren't their charts that say "1/2 oz loads of H110 start at 14 grains and go to 16 grains" and use any hull, 209-like primer, and wad combo you want?

Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me, especially when every rifle is loaded to far higher pressures than most any shotgun comes near.

 

[Boom Vang]

You have already been enlightened. They are stunted reloaders.

But seriously, shotguns generally have relatively weak actions and thin-walled barrels compared to metallic cartridge firearms, and operate at lower pressures maxxing out around 12-14K psi, depending on the load. There's not as much of margin for error. Additionally, you are dealing with more component variables than metallic: shot weight (never exact), shot hardness, wad variations, propellant weight (never exact), primers, and an overall weak shell design (plastic/paper with a tiny brass/steel head) which varies as to internal volume according to brand.

Given those factors, pressures can vary and sticking to specifics is a good idea.

Another issue is fitting all those components into a given hull. If it doesn't fit just right, it will not crimp, or crimp poorly, and have poor ignition. So there is a lot more going on that just seating a bullet. The published and tested shotgun loads.... were tested for success.

However, having said that.... while working shotshell pressures are 11-13K psi, the SAAMI proof pressure is 20,500 psi and with the variation allowed in proof loads, the guns as manufactured have to be able to potentially withstand 25,100 psi. That is double most shotshell loads. You're not gonna blow a modern shotgun up substituting one brand of primer for another (assuming the same type spec), or likewise a wad of similar construction.

 

[Soonerpesek]

One that gives a minimum and maximum charge

I have manuals that give up to (3) charge loadings for a specific hull/wad/primer combo, as with metallic reloading there is a "min" and a "max".

Given those factors, pressures can vary and sticking to specifics is a good idea.

Fantastic advice...!!

Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me, especially when every rifle is loaded to far higher pressures than most any shotgun comes near.

As previously stated, shotgun actions are much more fragile than rifle actions.
And most any 9500-10000 PSI shotshell load will get most any job done...(12 Ga loads anyway)

You're not gonna blow a modern shotgun up substituting one brand of primer for another (assuming the same spec).

More than likely not, however excess pressure can/will weaken the hulls for future use.



@berettaprofessor, I can't speak for 410 bore stuff but shotshell loading is MUCH easier than metallic loading........IMO

 

[Arkansas Paul]

The internal construction of hulls can vary quite a bit. Most brass rifle casings are similar enough that it doesn't matter. Not hulls. They vary a great deal between brands (sometimes) and then you have the European hulls. Some are tapered internally and some aren't, and you need the correct wad for the type of hull you're shooting.

I don't think the primers make as much a difference as many shotgun reloaders are afraid they do, but hulls can be tricky.
Now my experience is with 12-gauge. I'm not sure if .410 is any different.

 

[Boom Vang]

Here's a good read on shotshell pressures.

N.B. NOT intended to embolden the foolhardy, but to reassure the nervous....

Shotshell Pressures

 

[NMexJim]

Having been 4 stations away in 5-stand when a barrel blew, I can tell you it is an interesting experience. Luckily the guy wasn’t hurt badly. When he called the factory, one of the first questions asked was if he was shooting reloads which he was. The factory refused any sort of help or further comment. This was not a cheap shotgun. They are built to withstand both barrels going off a time or two.

We were finding bits and pieces for a couple of weeks.

He was a highly experienced shot shell reloader and competitive shooter.

Pressure can be raised by the simple act of not getting the wad down on powder. That’s what the recipes are all about - getting a good match-up of components to ensure the crimp will have be right.

Back in the ‘50s, much of the powder and shot column length was adjusted using various felt and fiber wads and cards. Buckshot still requires some of this. Modern plastic wads have “legs” which will flex allowing some degree of error.

Again, I will suggest that you buy Lyman’s Shotshell Reloading 5th edition. I see it’s $20 on Amazon right now. Best $20 you’ll spend.

 

[FROGO207]

The above posters have covered things well. I am new to shotshell reloading as well. Been reloading metalic since 1968 or so. I have some brass 410 as well as several types of plastic hulls. They are indeed all made differently. I cut one of each down the middle and compared the internal volume/ hull wall construction. 410 are close but 12, and 20 GA have 2 basic types of hull wall construction and many different volumes due to base wad construction. The base of the hull and the wad allow the propper amount of propellant volume and seal to propell the load out of the barrel. The wad height will assure a good seal and allow the pressure to build up before releasing. I figure if they took the time to work up good loads I might as well not reinvent the wheel. They say after you do it for a while you can figure out some substitutions that work but for the beginners to stick to the printed data. Ballistic Products offers inexpensive wads, nitro cards and felt wads. Also load books for their wads and buckshot data. Check them out.

 

[Bill M.]

There is no need to "adjust" or "tune" shotgun loads. There is no real way to "read" pressure of a shotgun load. The combination of components does make a real difference in pressure and velocity. Shotgun loads work best in a narrow range of pressure. Shotgun powders are very fast burning compared to rifle powders and thus are more sensitive to the components. Shotgun barrels and actions are weaker than rifles. Following the recipe "exactly" is a very good way to load shotgun shells. It is not the "only" way but you better know what you are doing to vary. The Hodgdon website does list loads for 3 or 4 different powder drops so you can load to different velocities. The Alliant data has always been a little frustrating to me with just 1 drop shown, That is one reason I favor Hodgdon powders,

 

[berettaprofessor]

Again, I will suggest that you buy Lyman’s Shotshell Reloading 5th edition. I see it’s $20 on Amazon right now. Best $20 you’ll spend.

I have it and have read it. Didn't help my question since 9/10th's of it is all individual loading recipes...unfortunately few or none of which are with currently available components.

 

[N555]

Shotguns are operating on the edge of disaster already.

I have it and have read it. Didn't help my question since 9/10th's of it is all individual loading recipes...unfortunately few or none of which are with currently available components.

What are you missing?
209 primers are available everywhere unless you're stuck having to use a certain magnum one.
Cheddite is the go to standard primer used to replace non magnum Winchester, Remington and standard federal primers.
Shot is available.
Most wads are available unless you're loading Russian stuff.
Slugs are available.
Most powders are available somewhere.
Hulls are everywhere and cheap.

 

[MEHavey]

but why can't there be a similar chart for shotgun as for rifle reloading? One that gives a minimum and maximum charge of H110, for pushing 1/2 oz of shot out of a 410 hull...any hull.

Because hulls are different, wads are different. And Primers are differenct
Otherwise with a given hull/given wad /given primer you have exactly what you asked for in the load tables:
MIN/MAX for 1/2 oz / H110 -- along w/. pressure/velocities/

I recommend not exploring too far from these tables.

individual loading recipes...unfortunately few or none of which are with currently available components.

What are you unable to get?

 

[MEHavey]

-- delete dupe --

 

[berettaprofessor]

What are you missing?
209 primers are available everywhere unless you're stuck having to use a certain magnum one.
Cheddite is the go to standard primer used to replace non magnum Winchester, Remington and standard federal primers.
Shot is available.
Most wads are available unless you're loading Russian stuff.
Slugs are available.
Most powders are available somewhere.
Hulls are everywhere and cheap.

Only Cheddite 209 primers and CCI 209Magnum were available near me, so I had to do some research since none of my (at that time) manuals told me the Cheddite were interchangeable with Winchester or Federal 209's. Slugs are not available at all, which was why I was thrilled when MEHavey, in another thread, told me I could load (3) 000 buckshot rounds as "slugs". 410 Hulls are not available from online resources at all....so I'm using once-shot Fiocchi of my own, of which load recipes are hard to come by. And I found 410 wads online, but not by any name listed in a manual; but they're compatible I've since learned. I had H110, so that's covered.

But I've pieced it together and I think I've got a safe plan now...Cheddite primers, Fiocchi Hulls, CB5050wads, 15.0-15.7 grains H110, and a 1/2 oz load. I've got #8 shot and soon will have some 000 buckshot.

 

[MEHavey]

could load (3) 000 buckshot rounds as "slugs".

Those are 0.360" diameter
You need .375 roundball to stack correctly

 

[berettaprofessor]

Oops. Thanks MEHavey. Anyone want to purchase an unopened box of 000 buckshot I have on the way from Midway?

 

[gns4me]

Interesting Read on shotgun reloading. I have a Q? for any KNOWLEDGEABLE Shot shell re-loader, Given a safe listed Primer/Hull/ wad/powder combo , can the 1oz payload be varied without problems ( ie #6 shot , #8 shot , 1 oz slug, 1 oz #4 buck)? Reasons as to Why or Why not.

 

[MEHavey]

1oz payload be varied without problems ....{?}

The problem isn't so much the equal weight, as it in the different "stacking" height of the different diameter balls/slug.

You can get away with switching out close matches -- like #8s for #9s. but as you get bigger, the stack height gets taller
and you have to use a different-depth wad cup to accommodate when crimping closed.

No big deal.. Wad cups are cheap. Claybuster has`em all by the bag-full.
Any style, any gauge, any weight.
(They're like P-nuts... can't have just one type)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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But always go back to the books (from the Lyman shotshell book above)
Straying too far can get you surprised -- and then chronographs are your best friend.

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.

 

[blue32]

Interesting Read on shotgun reloading. I have a Q? for any KNOWLEDGEABLE Shot shell re-loader, Given a safe listed Primer/Hull/ wad/powder combo , can the 1oz payload be varied without problems ( ie #6 shot , #8 shot , 1 oz slug, 1 oz #4 buck)? Reasons as to Why or Why not.

Going from 8 to 6 is no big deal but a slug is unlikely to fit in a shot cup for those two. Same for the buck and while it may fit, I can almost guarantee you the stack height will be such that you will run into crimping problems and thus pressures beyond what was tested for a given component.

 

[N555]

Interesting Read on shotgun reloading. I have a Q? for any KNOWLEDGEABLE Shot shell re-loader, Given a safe listed Primer/Hull/ wad/powder combo , can the 1oz payload be varied without problems ( ie #6 shot , #8 shot , 1 oz slug, 1 oz #4 buck)? Reasons as to Why or Why not.

I have used "1 ounce data" with #2 lead shot and T shot in 12 gauge.
How the shot stacks becomes much more important in 410 since #2 shot starts in a 410 starts to stack like buckshot in a 12 gauge.
The only 410 guns I have are break action single shots with really thick barrels so I'm not real worried about following the load data precisely.
I have been using cheddites in place of Winchester primers since about 2018 in 12ga.

 

[MEHavey]

I have used "1 ounce data" with #2 lead shot and T shot in 12 gauge

Are you simplly weighing the actual shot that will fit in (a) specific wad cup -- and it's 1 oz ?
Case in point:
- 1 oz of #6 shot will fit in a 1⅜ oz Winchester WA12R wad designed for much heavier loads.
- There I'd load [the powder] for 1 oz data -- but making sure that I'd re-adjusted the wad ram depth to juuuuust start compression.


The 12ga shotgun is a remarkably flexible weapon.
But the handloader has got to know what s/he's* doing.






* My DEI donation for the day
(quota now filled)

 

[N555]

I just use the mec loader slide bar could be 7/8oz, 1oz or 1+1/8. I have to hand weigh shot 1+3/8 ounce shells.
That's just in general I'm using the same data on 12ga for. My guess would be that if I drop a load of shot form the mec a load of #9 will weigh more and be more consistent than a load of #2.
For 410 I hand weigh the shot and use an over shot card and rtv.

 

[MEHavey]

the mec loader slide bar

In that case you're loading by shot volume (whatever the weight is)
And the bigger the shot, the lighter the weight for that volume

 

[gns4me]

Thank you for all the reply's. I'm going to be loading Lee Key-way slugs as per the recommended supplied Data and #4 buck for home defense. A couple of us practice with falling steal target and that is what the #6 was/is for. In a couple months , when back surgery is thru , I will let you the progress and how it all turns out. Now i understand the stacking and Height issue better and may have to add another wad or 2. In the mean time I'll be accumulating supplies ( lead , molds , melting pot, loader, hulls, wads etc)

 

[berettaprofessor]

Hodgdon's Annuals list shotgun loads for 12 gauge...and has some nice tables for interchangeable wads and volumetric powder drops. Tables are in similar format with their rifle data....must be jousting at windmills.