I guess I didn't understand "mixed range brass"....lesson learned.

[berettaprofessor]

Based on recommendations here, and tired of Starline new 45ACP brass at 20 cents apiece, I tried an on-line source of "mixed range brass". The source doesn't matter because they lived up to their end of the bargain, I just didn't understand what I would be getting. The source noted that there "may" be some pieces with small primers, and they add a few extra cases to make up for those, and it also clearly stated the brass was "previously fired". But for 4 cents apiece? Where do I sign up??

Well, I missed the difference between what I wanted, which was "once-fired", and the stated "previously fired." And I expected "mixed range brass" to be three or four headstamps, because three or four headstamps is all I've ever purchased. As a warning to those novice reloaders like me (I've only been loading 5 years compared to some of you), what I got was:

218 total cases (200 ordered): 169 Large primers, 49 small primers (I don't want to load small primers in 45ACP or keep the cases around because I don't want to watch for them, so if you want'em, let's make a deal for shipping! They were Speer, Federal, Blazer, and a single lonely Win NT headstamp).

Of the 169 large primer cases, they were as follows:

Federal: 48 cases
Winchester 39 cases
Sig: 28 cases
RP: 15 cases
PMC: 10 cases
CBC: 7 cases
GFL 5 cases
S&B 3 cases
PPU: 2 cases
A USA: 2 cases
Extreme: 2 cases
Perfecta: 2 cases
1 case each: Starline, MPR, DRT, Hornady, RWS, Hrtrs

So what's wrong with that? Well, some of the above, say 15%, were quite used, and showed signs of reloading, so I'm not sure how well they can be used again. And, although I don't stick to loading just one headstamp, I like to load and shoot 50 identical cases in a batch for consistency of aim...and didn't reach 50 of any single headstamp. I really don't want to just load all mixed headstamps and take the variation that results, even for plinkiing, so a lot of these cases probably will sit around and pass on with my estate in 30 years. The headstamps from my own new ammo that I have saved are all Winchester, RP, and SB...so I essentially gained 57 cases that I'll maybe use in regular rotation.

57 cases/$8 for the lot + half the shipping cost of $15, so 57 cases divided into $15.50 = 27 cents a case For brass with an unknown history. I could have bought new commercial ammo for that and saved the brass....

I don't think I'll do that again.

 

[bullseye308]

I don’t buy brass but pick it up at the range. Basically the same with no cost as I get once fired, reloaded, smal, primer, large primer, ... You never know what you will get till you sort it. I do pick out steel, aluminum, and small primer in 45, but the rest get processed and stored till I need to load it. I have never sorted headstamps in any caliber and still manage to shoot fairly good.

 

[mcb]

All of my 45 ACP brass is range pickup and its never really made any difference. I have a five gallon bucket of 45 ACP picked up at the range after USPSA/IDPA matches. 45 ACP in general does not seem particularly picky about brass. My reloading press eats it all (except those pesky small primer cases, but I just save them up until I have enough for a batch {300-400 pieces} of small primer). My 45ACP guns (An XD-45 and S&W 625) have never given me any feeding issues with mixed brass. Last time I loaded 45 ACP I found I had reloaded some military cases from the 40's. It still worked. Maybe if I was a bullseye shooter I might but for killing cardboard, poppers, and Texas-stars mixed head stamp works just fine.

 

[joed]

I'll pay the $.20 a piece for new brass. I won't fall for the mixed brass nonsense.

 

[ATLDave]

I've never bought used brass, but I have picked it up at the range. I do sort by headstamp (for a variety of reasons beyond just "consistency"). For any given caliber, I have either a plastic tray or a gallon-sized freezer bag... containing more ziploc bags, each of which has its own bunch of brass. One of the sub-bags (often the biggest, unfortunately) is for "miscellaneous." That's where I put the headstamps I have only a few examples of. Once I get enough of a particular headstamp, it gets its own sub-bag. The first few times you encounter a headstamp, you may not collect enough to make it worth reloading it... but you may accumulate more over time and gradually get a useful amount.

As for the SPP 45 brass, I have only one use for it: making dummy rounds for dry-fire reloading practice.

 

[lauderdale]

Who did you purchase from? Thats your review. I did the same thing off of our BST forum as i purchase a ton from our community. trying to remember who.

 

[rsrocket1]

45 ACP is a straight walled low pressure (21 kpsi SAAMI) round. Compare that to 9/40/357 which is 35 kpsi plus you aren't roll crimping the case so there is virtually no wear and tear on the brass. I have many 45ACP brass where you just about can't read the headstamp any more and they still shoot great. When I deprime/resize the cases, there is very little resistance of the case going through the die so it's not getting worked very much.

The only thing I am vigilant of is looking at the size of the primer before putting the case into the press. All small primer brass go into a separate bin where I load them at a different time, mark the heads with a double stripe and store them away for either an exclusive SP shooting session or when I go out into a field where I may lose some brass (or if I ever go to a range that won't let you pick up your brass ).

 

[Skgreen]

Yeah, I tend to stay away from 'mixed' 45 ACP just because,,,,,,,, well,,,,,, mixed primers.

Once fired does not mean fired only once,,,

Couple good things though,,,

1. Takes quite a while to 'wear out' 45 ACP brass,,,

2. You can now test / record any and all differences in performance between your 20 cent brass and your 4 cent brass.

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that I can't shoot well enough to see a difference, but perhaps some can.

 

[LiveLife]

tired of Starline new 45ACP brass at 20 cents apiece
... 57 cases/$8 for the lot + half the shipping cost of $15, so 57 cases divided into $15.50 = 27 cents a case

FYI, RMR sells indoor range fully processed large primer 45ACP brass for 10 cents a case shipped - https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/cases/45-acp-brightfired-large-primer-fully-processed-brass-cases-1/


Member nambu1 is selling deprimed wet tumbled and polished large primer 45ACP brass for 5 cents plus shipping - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/once-fired-brass-f-s-wv.836684/


I have bought brass from member ljnowell (who is a bullseye match shooter) and pistol brass arrived clean (even inside of case - these were not wet tumbled, they were cleaned/polished with walnut/corncob) polished and appeared mostly once fired indoor range brass. He no longer sells brass on THR as he now sells at gun shows but you could PM to see if he will sell you some large primer 45ACP (BTW, his prices were just about lowest I have ever seen - Was 4.6 cents shipped!) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/brass-for-sale-9mm-380-45-40-il.820011/

Here's picture of brass when they arrived - Most pistol brass were clean on the inside of case and most 223/5.56 brass still had crimped primer pockets (meaning they were once fired)

 

[Patocazador]

I shoot it all. Mixed brass doesn't bother me although two primer sizes would be a pain. I have cases that I bought new and have been reloaded and fired at least 8-10 times. When they fail, I toss them but not until then.

 

[LiveLife]

As to "mixed" range brass, I believe (as many bullseye match shooters do like my reloading mentor) mixed range brass is one of many significant factors that attribute to "flyers" or deviation from shot group due to case wall variation, internal structure and volume of case which affect bullet setback, neck tension, chamber pressure build and peak pressures.

In recent myth busting thread where I measured bullet setback, I found significant difference in case wall thickness .1" and .2" below case mouth (mid to base of bullet) which I believe contributed to bullet setback - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10711682

At .1" below case mouth, case wall thickness ranged from .010" to .014" depending on headstamp - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10712225

At .2" below case mouth, case wall thickness ranged from .010" to .015" depending on headstamp - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10713822

Based on my findings, all future accuracy testing will be done with brass that does not produce bullet setback with bullet I am testing with.

although two primer sizes would be a pain.

When I bought a batch of Tula SP primer with thicker cup that would not consistently ignite in my 9mm/40S&W pistols (Glocks, M&P40), I found loading them in small primer 45ACP ignited them all without issues in 45 pistols (Sig 1911, M&P45, Taurus MilPro P145).

So yes, I save all the small primer 45ACP brass. If you don't want them, send them to me.

 

[Texas10mm]

I'm sitting on right at 10 gallons of .45 AP brass, not counting the 2-3k rounds I have loaded. I pick up brass at the range every trip. I sort out the steel and aluminum and sort the SPP on the press. I throw the SPP brass in a separate container. When I get 500 or so SPP I'll load them up and shoot them in lost brass matches.

I did have a piece of military brass from '44 that still had a crimped primer pocket. That one threw me for a second.

My shooting ability is far less than perfect. If I can keep them in the 0 ring of a IPDA target at 20 yards I'm happy.

 

[kmw1954]

I've only been loading again for a couple years and when I started I had no brass so I had to buy it. I found a guy right here in Wisconsin that sells on both GunBroker and Armslist. He lists his brass as cleaned, sorted range brass and I believe it's all indoor brass. 1st purchase was 3000 9mm and I believe that was 2 cents a pc. as I recall it cost me $60.00.. Next was 45 acp and that was 2000 pcs. and I believe that was $80.00.. It was all brass and all large primer and all cleaned! I still have his contact info. Yes it was mixed head stamp.

I sort head stamps for the most common brands. All odd stuff gets loaded for those trip to outdoor ranges where I know I'm going to lose most of it, along with the small primer 45 stuff..

 

[Walkalong]

I have shot brand new matching Starline .45 ACP brass (Bought 300 many years ago) against mixed range brass and I cannot shoot the difference. Does it cause a less than stellar shot here and there? It might. Will it make you miss a 10" steel plate at 25 yards? Nope. Will it make a difference in a Bullseye match? I don't know, I'm not that good.

That said, some range brass is better than other range brass.

 

[splattergun]

mixed brass is mixed brass. Sort them out by headstamp, if you need to. I wouldn't bother. JUst separate the SPP. Those that look like they've been loaded before will probably last until you lose them in the dirt. Not likely to wear out unless you're loading real hot. You got your money's worth. 4 cents apiece. It's not their fault you don't like the mix.

 

[LiveLife]

new matching Starline .45 ACP brass ... against mixed range brass and I cannot shoot the difference.

Does it cause a less than stellar shot here and there? It might. Will it make you miss a 10" steel plate at 25 yards? Nope. Will it make a difference in a Bullseye match? I don't know, I'm not that good.

That's what I used to think.

But on different "myth busting" threads, some members insisted I remove as many reloading variables as possible to better "standardize" my testing methods.

So testing bullet setback and only using headstamp brass that do not produce bullet setback will now be part of my testing procedure.

Of course, this means another "myth busting" thread to see how much difference mixed range brass vs same headstamp brass shows on target. But I can't do any shooting now as to my family situation update, decision has been made and I will be moving my parents into a new house next month without any steps or stairs (we have been packing up their current house). Hopefully, I will get to do some shooting after they are moved into the new house before rain season starts.

Stay tuned.

Sorry for thread jack. Back to OP.

 

[gifbohane]

You separate the SPP brass. Can you tell me what that stands for (Small Primer???)? Does it shoot OK?

 

[627PCFan]

I have the a suspicion based on your breakout of brass brands we both recently received shipments from the same supplier. I load bulk these days for IPDA and USPSA. Emergency ammo is all starline. I think it boils down to what you use it for. I dont mind the small primer as I tend to keep more stock in SPP than LPs.

 

[SamT1]

Load them and go. I have lots of 45 brass that’s been loaded so many times the extractor marks make it hard to go into the shell plate.

Maybe buy some new starline if your shooting matches, but back when I shot a lot I could do a 6” group off hand at 50 yards with a race gun with a red dot. Shooting junky ammo. Mixed stamps, cast bullet from tire weights, green dot powder 20 years old run through a Lee auto disk, cheapest primers I could find.

The 45 like many calibers used by the government is very forgiving.

 

[Slamfire]

I hope there is a special place in hell for those Corporate types who are pumping out 45 ACP small primer brass. And I hope it is hot! I have been told, and I think I have seen posts, of exploded progressive presses where small primer brass got into the mix.

Based on my 45 ACP brass habits, the stuff is so low pressure, it lasts virtually forever. I only toss out brass with case cracks, or AMERC brass. AMERC brass was so awful that primers fell out of the primer pockets.

This is your gun on Amerc

 

[ArchAngelCD]

A lot of my brass is outdoor range pickup brass but I do sort them into 50 round lots of the same brand before loading. It works out well for me. I also have a good supply of my once shot brass and some Starline bought new.

 

[cfullgraf]

If you want to standardize on headstamps, "previously fired" cases is not the way to go. It is kind of like Forest Gump's box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get.

With range pick ups, you only invest some time and maybe have some trading fodder to trade for some headstamps that you want.

I have shot brand new matching Starline .45 ACP brass (Bought 300 many years ago) against mixed range brass and I cannot shoot the difference. Does it cause a less than stellar shot here and there? It might. Will it make you miss a 10" steel plate at 25 yards? Nope. Will it make a difference in a Bullseye match? I don't know, I'm not that good.

That said, some range brass is better than other range brass.

This fits me.

For the past 25 years or so, I've been shooting out behind the house so the only fired cases generated at my range are by me. I've stopped buying fired cases and only buy new cases. I lose an average of less than 1% or 2% and the cases last near forever.

Not everyone has that option.

I've gotten tired dealing with fired cases, culling out the bad or undesirable cases.

All this applies only to cases fired in an auto loading handgun. Revolvers cases are a different animal.

 

[armarsh]

I have 45 brass so old the edges are worn down and they don't like to eject from my press. 45 is not very fussy - for almost all practical purposes sorting brass is not necessary.

 

[Livin_Cincy]

It seems nobody trims handgun brass. Most say it never grows. The OEM's don't always agree on length so mixed brass could have different lengths. it is also formed to length in different barrels. These are more than likely very small differences. Perhaps on the classic long revolver cartridges that take a roll crimp they should be uniformed.

Differences in length will change the time a projectile dwells before moving out of a case. This micro difference in time could be significant. If nothing else the time the recoil is felt is at a "nano-micro-minusia" different time.

Handguns are typically shot at a short distance. A 50 Yard shot is considered long by most shooters. So do things that matter to long guns shot at long gun distance matter to hand gun cartridges ?

I don't weigh to sort my handgun bullets... I typically cannot use the same hole for all (100) hand loads in a box. My shooting is not good enough to worry about this. I shoot MOZ... Moment Of Zombie.

 

[Walkalong]

I have changed back to shooting same headstamp (Still scrounged range brass) in 9MM, but still shoot mixed in .45 ACP (Despite having more than enough to sort out plenty of same headstamp). It is so much easier to stumble into a great load with .45 ACP, it runs at low pressure, doesn't stress the cases much, a fun and it's just easier to not have to keep brass separated (I do shoot at a public range). All of my .45 ACP is causal plinking/target/just having fun shooting. I promise you, if you miss a pop bottle or steel plate at 25 yards, it's a 99.9% chance it isn't because of the brass.