I have no idea where people even shoot anymore.
- Thread starter DeerPark
- Start date
- Status
jar
Contributing Member
There is one range about 20 miles away that has bays out to 100 yards but none close by where you can shoot further out any further. And this is in South Texas.
I wish I was making this stuff up. This is PA Code 135.181:
58 Pa. Code § 135.181. Rifle and handgun ranges.
Information included at this site has been derived directly from the Pennsylvania Code, the Commonwealth's official publication of rules and regulations and from the Pennsylvania Bulletin, the Commonwealth's official gazette for information and rulemaking
www.pacodeandbulletin.gov
The way it works at most state ranges is that you can have 6 rounds in a handgun and 3 rounds in a rifle. It looks like they might have changed it to 6 rounds in a rifle, but the signage hasn't changed at any ranges AFAIK and I wouldn't risk it because they just seemingly get off on busting people over stupid stuff.
trackskippy
Member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2010
- Messages
- 3,508
Youre just in the wrong part of PA. Lots of places you can get what you want. We're out in rural central PA not too far from State College, amongst the Mennonites and Amish. The closest roads that "go somewhere" are about 45 minutes to an hour away.
Land and housing are the "cheap" part of things. No "zoning" either. We don't live "in town" (towns around here are like 150-200 people). We have a couple of neighbors, the closest of which is about 300 yards away. I can shoot in my yard any time I want, and most do (Tannerite is popular
), but I shoot a lot, and don't want to annoy the few neighbors I have, got a great little club range that rarely ever has someone there, about a two minute drive around the hill from my house, so I annoy their neighbors.
Nice roads, no traffic, mostly all State Police, so you don't have to deal with local yokel BS too much.
We have 5G high speed cellular internet, satellite TV, UPS and Fedex know where to bring the stuff, and "serious" shopping is only about a half hour drive to "the Walmart". We even just got a Dollar Store! What else do you need?
Land and housing are the "cheap" part of things. No "zoning" either. We don't live "in town" (towns around here are like 150-200 people). We have a couple of neighbors, the closest of which is about 300 yards away. I can shoot in my yard any time I want, and most do (Tannerite is popular
), but I shoot a lot, and don't want to annoy the few neighbors I have, got a great little club range that rarely ever has someone there, about a two minute drive around the hill from my house, so I annoy their neighbors. Nice roads, no traffic, mostly all State Police, so you don't have to deal with local yokel BS too much.
We have 5G high speed cellular internet, satellite TV, UPS and Fedex know where to bring the stuff, and "serious" shopping is only about a half hour drive to "the Walmart". We even just got a Dollar Store! What else do you need?
Youre just in the wrong part of PA. Lots of places you can get what you want. We're out in rural central PA not too far from State College, amongst the Mennonites and Amish. The closest roads that "go somewhere" are about 45 minutes to an hour away.
Land and housing are the "cheap" part of things. No "zoning" either. We don't live "in town" (towns around here are like 150-200 people). We have a couple of neighbors, the closest of which is about 300 yards away. I can shoot in my yard any time I want, and most do (Tannerite is popular
Nice roads, no traffic, mostly all State Police, so you don't have to deal with local yokel BS too much.
We have 5G high speed cellular internet, satellite TV, UPS and Fedex know where to bring the stuff, and "serious" shopping is only about a half hour drive to "the Walmart". We even just got a Dollar Store! What else do you need?
Just for the record, we're talking about the same neck of the woods. I'm assuming you're around about Port Matilda and possibly west through Clearfield county (or maybe a little north/ south).
For starters, land / housing is increasingly expensive in those areas as well. It's cheap relative to State College, but State College is one of the most expensive markets in the country. So that's really not saying a whole lot. That's due to the fact that Penn State University is located there, so you have a lot of affluent students from foreign countries just buy houses during undergrad / graduate programs and sell them when they leave. It artificially inflates the market and you houses with 1.5 baths selling for over $700k. Even so, it's pretty common to see houses fly off the market in less than 24 hours. It affects all the housing in nearby counties as well, which is why you're seeing houses in Philipsburg / Clearfield county selling for almost half a million dollars in spite of the fact that the median income of the county is like $24k. Professors / rich state college folks will buy them and commute to work, use them as recreational properties, or leverage them as investments.
However, the biggest problem is your internet options in those areas aren't good enough to actually do 40+ hours a week of conference calls with screen sharing.
I know this isn't a technical forum, but 5G cellular internet isn't actually very reliable. The word "high speed" in the technical world is akin to the word "organic" in the grocery world. Sure, Cellular internet works great for streaming your wife's favorite shows and browsing THR. But if you rely on it to do conference calls with screen sharing for 40 hours a week, you're just going to end up getting fired. Besides the fact that your data is capped and your packet loss is really variant to weather conditions, your upload speeds are going to be poor.
You'll have the same problems with Starlink. It has amazing download speeds, but upload speeds aren't great. And when you're trying to do a real time conversation where you're sharing your screen to a conference room of like 100 people, it's just going to be really choppy and not work well enough.
Not to get political, but the main reason this became a public issue was during the covid pandemic. Everyone forced students to go to class from home, but a bunch of kids weren't really able to get access to classrooms because their internet options were all cellular and DSL. People in Washington said "Well they'll be fine because that's high speed!" But because they had no idea how the internet actually works, It was a disaster. You basically need cable internet, fiber, or direct wireless to do that effectively and reliably for anything other than casual computing.
The state responded by starting to get internet out to rural areas as part of a government infrastructure initiative. And honestly, they're doing a really good job! Eventually your areas will have lightning fast internet.
The problem is we're moving at the speed of government here, so I wouldn't hold my breath. And I'm not going to hold off another 5 years waiting to purchase a home so I can plink in my backyard.
As an aside, a lot of those middle-of-nowhere places actually do have borough ordinances. It's just that nobody is complaining (right now). Take a look at your borough/township ordinances. You might be surprised. Many of them have laws about what you can and can't do in your private home. They also have regulations on what kinds of businesses you can open or operate from your home. I've looked very carefully at all of those surrounding counties and I really think you might be surprised.
Just sayin'. There's a major difference between what you're actually allowed to do and what you're getting away with.
trackskippy
Member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2010
- Messages
- 3,508
So, what youre saying is, you dont really want to move, just bitch a little?
So, what youre saying is, you dont really want to move, just bitch a little?
I said I was moving.
That's why I'm selling my guns.My point is internet in areas that are rural enough to shoot are typically not good enough to work from home (which was verbatim what I said in the original post).
I seem to recall reading standards in those counties still some of the lowest in the state. I guess they still are.
LiveLife
Member
OP mentioned Pennsylvania on post #13 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ople-even-shoot-anymore.929652/#post-12877987
Welcome, longtime lurker. I too was a longtime lurker before I started posting.
My parents retired to mountain town of Oregon off I-5 and built a new house on 5 acres. They are surrounded by neighbors on acreages and they readily and freely shoot on their properties and many are hunters. Back of parents' house faces a hillside perfect for 25/50 yard range set up.
Pro 2A sentiment is high for the area as budget cutback for Sheriff department reduced number deputies (They are in the County) to where they encouraged property owners to complete CCW permit/defensive shooting training as LE response may be slow due to limited coverage in rural areas.
Being able to shoot freely was one of several key criteria for our retirement location.
I am 30-45 minutes away from several BLM designated shooting areas but as Forest Rangers/Sheriff Deputies confirmed, as long as I am past the BLM markers, I can freely shoot "into" BLM areas and they "encourage" target shooting practice and readily support 2A.
Closest BLM shooting area 30 minutes away supports several 25-50 yard spots and one 100 yard spot. BLM shooting area 45 minutes away supports two 25-100 yards spots. BLM shooting area an hour away supports multiple 100-300 yard spots. Many shooters told me about BLM areas that support 600-800 yards but have not driven to those areas yet.
As many members already posted, do some research and you should be able to find locations, especially BLM areas, where you can shoot freely, perhaps from your backyard.
I think a large part that's missing (and others from PA are omitting from the discussion) is it's illegal to shoot recreationally in the state forest / state gamelands in PA.
Like I said to that other dude (who didn't read what I wrote), there's a huge difference between what you're getting away with and what's legally allowed. Lots of folks out here just kind of shoot in the woods because that's what grandpa did. A lot of those folks also end up with criminal records and paying fines when they get caught by the PA Game Commission because someone complains.
It seems like a lot of folks are having an easier time because you can just legally drive into the woods in some states and target shoot. Unfortunately PA is not one of those states.
Last edited:
Not a chance, unless the laws change, in which you wouldn't be interested any more. I just retired a year ago and hope to enjoy this place for a long time....not interested in selling, are you?
trackskippy
Member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2010
- Messages
- 3,508
Well, to be fair, you didnt specify what was "acceptable", so maybe you need to be clearer in your communication.I said I was moving.
My point is internet in areas that are rural enough to shoot are typically not good enough to work from home (which was verbatim what I said in the original post).
I seem to recall reading standards in those counties still some of the lowest in the state. I guess they still are.
Im not originally from PA, and don't have a clue as to what the schools are like in this area. My reading comprehension is fine too, at least it has been at a couple of different engineering levels.
And so far, we haven't had any trouble with the 5G and we use it pretty heavily. Compared to what was here when we moved here, its not FO fast, but it seems to work fine for the small amount of online conferencing we've done with it. As far as Skylink goes, I know a couple of people who have it, and they seem to be happy with it. Might not be up to your standards, but it works great for us.
Both beat the 8 meg 1960's landline internet we had when we first moved here. Hell, we even have 911 on the phones now, and an actual address to go with it too. No more RR and fire call numbers. And a Dollar Store! We really are proud of the Dollar Store, they have EVERYTHING Matthew, its AMAZING!
Whos "getting away with anything"? If its your land, or that of a neighbor or friend, you can shoot anywhere you like. We arent stuck where you are and have to deal with the DCNR rules and shooting on their land and put up with all the crap that goes on there.
You need to get out of the city, and out where you can do what you want, and smell the fresh air. When you start hearing random gunfire, and start smelling the chickens and the pigs, you'll know you're there.
LiveLife
Member
So how far are you willing to move away from PA to be able to freely shoot?
BTW, this is Charity, puppy we got from an Amish farmer from PA ... It was a long drive to pick her up from west coast but wife insisted that we go for pick of the litter and Charity was Amish farmer's cute daughter's favorite who already named her ... And of course, wife was absolutely correct.
Last edited:
burrhead
Member
If the only thing preventing the OP to move to a rural area is fast internet , there has been for many years grants that telephone companies can and do get to improve communications in "underserved" areas. I live 90 miles from a grocery store and 4 miles off a paved road yet I have a fiber optic internet connection.
You'll need to do some research but many rural towns have outstanding internet service. There are several people in the area making money off the net. This is my front yard.
You'll need to do some research but many rural towns have outstanding internet service. There are several people in the area making money off the net. This is my front yard.
Last edited:
Steve Milbocker
Member
I have been able to shoot on most all the places I’ve lived until about a year ago. Fortunately I found a great gun club about 5 minutes from me. Also like shooting my air guns in my basement. Good luck with your search for a suitable piece of ground where you can shoot to your heart’s content.
Some_Mook
Member
Isn't Pennsylvania where Mike Beliveau ran afoul of shooting on his own undeveloped property? When I lived in West by God Virginia, the Internet wasn't great but I could target shoot and kill deer and turkey in my back yard. Now in Michigan, Internet can be good. Only have a 100 meter range in my back yard. State Land is mostly all open for target shooting except for camping and wildlife preserve areas. A friend lives further north on 50 acres so we can do some long range shooting but still have to be on the look out for ATV'ers who bypass the no trespassing signs and will obliviously ride onto a hot range.
LAR V
Member
I'm from Pennsylvania, Chester County. It's a suburb of Philadelphia and high speed internet is not a problem. There are plenty of clubs with outdoor ranges. I belong to two of them. Also quite a few indoor ranges you can join but they are a little more pricey. Outdoor clubs usually run about $60 to $100 a year. Commercial indoor ranges about $400 a year. Lateley I have limited how much I shoot on my own property. I have 5 acres and an adequate backstop but more younger people are moving in that don't get it. Just don't want to have trouble with neighbors even though the local police department has said it's fine and told people to stop complaining about hearing gunshots. Not sure where you are but if only 30 minutes outside of Philadelphia there are lots of places, there must be someplace near you. If not, consider moving to Chester County.
Savage30L
Member
Rural KY is like this. Only with more shooting.Youre just in the wrong part of PA. Lots of places you can get what you want. We're out in rural central PA not too far from State College, amongst the Mennonites and Amish. The closest roads that "go somewhere" are about 45 minutes to an hour away.
Land and housing are the "cheap" part of things. No "zoning" either. We don't live "in town" (towns around here are like 150-200 people). We have a couple of neighbors, the closest of which is about 300 yards away. I can shoot in my yard any time I want, and most do (Tannerite is popular
Nice roads, no traffic, mostly all State Police, so you don't have to deal with local yokel BS too much.
We have 5G high speed cellular internet, satellite TV, UPS and Fedex know where to bring the stuff, and "serious" shopping is only about a half hour drive to "the Walmart". We even just got a Dollar Store! What else do you need?
CoalCrackerAl
Member
Where in PA are you?Im in northumberland county. And we have gun clubs all around. The 2 i belong to are 25.00 and 35.00 a year. One has a range out to 300 yards.
www.facebook.com
Zerbe Township Rod and Gun Club | Trevorton PA
Zerbe Township Rod and Gun Club, Trevorton, Pennsylvania. 1,556 likes · 14 talking about this · 360 were here. Sportsman’s Club
www.facebook.com
Home
The Keystone Fish and Game Association is a non-profit membership dedicated to protecting our environment as well as improving our fisheries and wildlife habitat. We seek to educate our youth about our outdoor heritage and the need for scientific wildlife management. Our club provides proper...
www.keystonefishandgameclub.com
Jim Watson
Member
I don’t have a solution to the corner you are painted into.
I am doing the shooting I like but know of two nearby ranges forced to relocate by residential encroachment and the one I shot at yesterday is moving in November. Plus three I can think of just gone.
I am doing the shooting I like but know of two nearby ranges forced to relocate by residential encroachment and the one I shot at yesterday is moving in November. Plus three I can think of just gone.
I wasn't asking you for tech support or to be my real estate agent. The thread was simply asking where people shoot their rifles at. I already said I'm selling my guns and moving.Well, to be fair, you didnt specify what was "acceptable", so maybe you need to be clearer in your communication.
It's "Starlink" Mr. Engineer
Wrong. There are state laws and local ordinances dictating everything from how far back the bullet can penetrate through your backstop to the angles involved. It doesn't matter if your county has no zoning and your friends don't know the rules -- but I'm not going to argue with you because this is clearly not productive.
Let's just take the high road and not fight about it? We're practically neighbors so we might wind up running into each other at that dollar store one day
Like I said, I'm not moving out of PA. I feel like moving out of state just so I can plink is honestly pretty irresponsible. It's sad my boyhood dream died but I guess that's just growing up.
Correct, but these are new in rural PA. They announced it as part of our infrastructure bill a few months ago. We didn't actually begin to see high speed internet to underserved areas until very recently.
Unfortunately I've done the research with a team of agents for about 5+ years and there really isn't anything like that in this state. It's starting to appear, but it's highly competitive. You're easily looking at $350k+ and up for something like that.
Not sure but that does happen a lot in this state. Again, there's a lot of folks doing things that they've always done for years (ie - target shooting on game lands ) that aren't actually legal and are now suddenly getting in trouble for it. Times are changing and they aren't favorable to the second amendment. One of the rural townships within my county just had a bunch of angry moms (from the city) move in and try to change the laws so people can't target shoot on their property.
Which again, is part of the reason I'm not interested in doing it anymore. The amount of property you'd need to own to safely shoot without worrying about someone wandering in there is incredible.
Funny story, about 4 years ago I was looking at a piece of property and, when I pulled it, there was someone sitting in the woods doing drugs. Were they allowed to be there? No. If I had owned that property and accidently shot him because he was hidden behind my backstop in the woods and was too goofed up to know, would I get sued? You betcha. Even if I won in criminal court, I bet a million dollars the family would take me to civil court afterwards. It happens more than people think.
It's funny, outside of philly is where that PVC pipe range I was talking about is located.
Also, that's basically my fear of shooting on my own property and why I've basically given up on it. Even if you're in the right, if you get new neighbors who don't like it or don't get it, it's just going to cause problems.
That's part of why I asked. I noticed a lot of these ranges are going away.
Unfortunately, scotia is now one of the most heavily moderated ranges in the state. It now has cameras at every shooting station. Game commission regularly come by and search people. These ranges also have the "only 3 rounds in a magazine at a time" and "you must wait 3 seconds between each shot" rules. I haven't been to scotia in years but just a few weeks ago someone at the gun shop in town was telling me he almost got fined for having a concealed carry weapon on his person.
Ironically, none of this prevented an accident they had a few years ago. A felon who wasn't legally allowed to have a gun took his two kids to the range. Either he or his kid shot the ground, the bullet ricocheted, and blinded his little girl at the range.
Between the game commission busting people over stupid stuff and people doing stupid stuff, this was a large part of the motivation I had to just shoot on my property. But I've given up and just want to sell my guns at this point.
nettlle
Contributing Member
We moved rural about 15 acres ago. Neighbors all around have 20 acres plus as do we. Neighbors right and left shoot like I do. There is no convenience here. A long drive to the grocery, doctor, hospital and fast food. Cell phone and TV is satellite and sucks. There are no neighbor kids running out from behind my target area. Children around here are raised right. No one cares if someone shoots. We have ATV's and golf carts running up and down the road (including me) not to mention the tractors, combines, etc. Sheriff doesn't care.
It's not just owning the land. The land has to be in a rural area to be able to shoot with out any hassles. There can be inconveniences that go with this selection.
It's not just owning the land. The land has to be in a rural area to be able to shoot with out any hassles. There can be inconveniences that go with this selection.
LiveLife
Member
Consider this for keeping your "boyhood dream" alive ...
Since I couldn't drive while recovering from one of several surgeries after retirement, I started plinking with BB and pellet rifles from back porch with soup/tomato can targets and spray painted steel plates at 10/15/25/35/50 yards (I got 1" groups at 25 yards and 3" groups at 50 yards) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/need-recommendation.919793/#post-12643043
But this is my next "toy" I want to get for backyard plinking fun.
Semi/Full-auto battery powered AR15 in "BB" Barra 400e (Maybe we should call it ARBB?) - https://www.amazon.com/Barra-Airguns-400e-Metal-Automatic/dp/B09YS6TB1W?th=1
With 1000 round charge capacity battery pack, it will be full-auto BB fun with multiple magazines and whisper quiet to not upset neighbors (Shooting THROUGH watermelon at 3:50 minute of video and against coconut at 6:25 minute)
INSANE Electric Full Auto BB Gun! Barra 400e AEG is NOT an Airsoft Gun...
This is the Barra 400e ELECTRIC Full Auto BB Gun! The Barra 400e AEG (Automatic Electric Gun) is the result of combining Airsoft Technology and an actual .17...
www.youtube.com
Arkansas Paul
Member
Myself, and probably many like me forget how good we have it.
The private range I'm a member of has 9 different ranges for various types of shooting, 24/7 access (you can go at night and use night vision), portable toilets that are cleaned once a week, all for $100 a year.
Anyone who purchases a house within a certain distance from the range (I think 2 miles) are notified in the contract somehow that they are doing so.
You mentioned not wanting to drive 40 minutes. That's the entire reason I joined the range. It's 10 minutes from my house.
My deer camp is an hour away. I used to have to drive there to shoot. I would do it occasionally, but I understand where you are coming from on that. I didn't do it that often due to time restraints.
The private range I'm a member of has 9 different ranges for various types of shooting, 24/7 access (you can go at night and use night vision), portable toilets that are cleaned once a week, all for $100 a year.
Anyone who purchases a house within a certain distance from the range (I think 2 miles) are notified in the contract somehow that they are doing so.
You mentioned not wanting to drive 40 minutes. That's the entire reason I joined the range. It's 10 minutes from my house.
My deer camp is an hour away. I used to have to drive there to shoot. I would do it occasionally, but I understand where you are coming from on that. I didn't do it that often due to time restraints.
- Status
