I heard this in a Gunshop I go to alot
- Thread starter tinygnat219
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badman3374
Member
Happened to me
I was working at a small gun shop whan a man came in.
"I needs some bullets"
For what?
My Glock
Which one?
Da balck one
Sorry were out
I was working at a small gun shop whan a man came in.
"I needs some bullets"
For what?
My Glock
Which one?
Da balck one
Sorry were out
VARifleman
Member
230RN, muzzle energy has less to do with knockdown power than momentum as momentum is conserved in a collision, and kinetic energy dissapates in many more ways than the counter work of body to bullet.
Momentum (slug-ft/sec) of:
.357 - 0.77
BB - 1.50
slug - 2.33
carnaby
Member
Fair enough, 230RN, but I'd like to see the data and not just his conclusion. From Chuck Hawks, he gives
so the BC improves from .357 to .400. I don't know anything about competitive rifle shooting, to be honest, so I have no idea what difference that makes. Chuck says it doesn't make much difference to hunting, but doesn't say anything about long range competition. To me, it seems, that that much of a difference would be significant by the time you get out to 1000 yds, if that's what sort of thing you are doing, since the effect is cumulative as the distance increases.
so the BC improves from .357 to .400. I don't know anything about competitive rifle shooting, to be honest, so I have no idea what difference that makes. Chuck says it doesn't make much difference to hunting, but doesn't say anything about long range competition. To me, it seems, that that much of a difference would be significant by the time you get out to 1000 yds, if that's what sort of thing you are doing, since the effect is cumulative as the distance increases.
Mark_from_Iowa
Member
I previously posted a story about getting ripped off at my local gun store while attempting to buy some non-corrosive 7.62x54R.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=242325
Basically, he sold me surplus ammo for 25 cents a round and told me it was new production, non-corrosive, etc. Using THR, I figured out that he screwed me (thanks guys).
When I went back later, I confronted the owner about the situation. He proceeds to tell me that it must have been mislabelled (plausible). Then he launches into a story about how corrosive ammo doesn't hurt guns, and that Hoppe's #9 will clean it up anyway:banghead:
This same guy tried to sell me a non-matching 1944 MN 91/30 with a spray-painted reciever for $250. I had learned my lesson at that point, so I flat out told him that it was overpriced by at least $175. He called over his "assistant" who "owns a dozen Nagants" to set me straight.
The assistant looks me square in the eye and says, "The Russians used paint and parkerizing on their arsenal refinished weapons in WW2, because they couldn't afford to blue them anymore.":banghead:
I asked him why, if the Soviets had actually refinished this rifle with paint, why there was overspray on the stock? Wouldn't the rifle have been disassembled?
He looked at the rifle, looked at me, and said, "Those commies were bad craftsmen, so we can probably knock $20 off of the price for you."
It took me two trips, but I have finally realized that my money is better spent online or at gunshows.
FWIW, the store in question is Jacobson's Gun Center in Story City, IA.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=242325
Basically, he sold me surplus ammo for 25 cents a round and told me it was new production, non-corrosive, etc. Using THR, I figured out that he screwed me (thanks guys).
When I went back later, I confronted the owner about the situation. He proceeds to tell me that it must have been mislabelled (plausible). Then he launches into a story about how corrosive ammo doesn't hurt guns, and that Hoppe's #9 will clean it up anyway:banghead:
This same guy tried to sell me a non-matching 1944 MN 91/30 with a spray-painted reciever for $250. I had learned my lesson at that point, so I flat out told him that it was overpriced by at least $175. He called over his "assistant" who "owns a dozen Nagants" to set me straight.
The assistant looks me square in the eye and says, "The Russians used paint and parkerizing on their arsenal refinished weapons in WW2, because they couldn't afford to blue them anymore.":banghead:
I asked him why, if the Soviets had actually refinished this rifle with paint, why there was overspray on the stock? Wouldn't the rifle have been disassembled?
He looked at the rifle, looked at me, and said, "Those commies were bad craftsmen, so we can probably knock $20 off of the price for you."
It took me two trips, but I have finally realized that my money is better spent online or at gunshows.
FWIW, the store in question is Jacobson's Gun Center in Story City, IA.
TEDDY
Member
BOAT TAIL
NOT TO ARGUE PRO OR CON BUT THE MILITARY MADE BOAT TAIL 172 GR FOR LONG RANGE MACHINE GUN SHOOTING .FROM THEIR EXPERIANCE IN WW1.
BECAUSE OF PRODUCTION NEED THEY STOPPED IN WW2.
HAVING SAID THAT I HAD TO LAUGH AT THE POSTS.AND GUN DEALERS BITCH
AT WAL-MART AS NOT HAVING EXPERIANCED HELP.:banghead: :banghead:
NOT TO ARGUE PRO OR CON BUT THE MILITARY MADE BOAT TAIL 172 GR FOR LONG RANGE MACHINE GUN SHOOTING .FROM THEIR EXPERIANCE IN WW1.
BECAUSE OF PRODUCTION NEED THEY STOPPED IN WW2.
HAVING SAID THAT I HAD TO LAUGH AT THE POSTS.AND GUN DEALERS BITCH
AT WAL-MART AS NOT HAVING EXPERIANCED HELP.:banghead: :banghead:
230RN
2A was "political" when it was first adopted.
Ok. look, Carnaby. I'm done with this one. The data is in the tables and in General Hatcher's well-respected statements. If you want more, you'll have to conduct your own firing tests. I recommend you read Hatcher's chapter on exterior ballistics.
I point out that the research(es) that Hatcher describes was in response to the problem we were having with the long-range firing tables for machine guns --long range being more than 1000 yards.
At 1000 yards, a typical .30-06 bullet started at 2600 f/s is still traveling just about at 1200 f/s. But the investigations were done for ranges out to 4500 yards. (It's just getting down to 1100 f/s at about 1100 yards (Hatcher, op cit, p 402.)).
I maintain that the sales clerk was essentially correct, based on Hatcher's generally-accepted expertise. If you wish to disagree, feel free.
Fin.
I point out that the research(es) that Hatcher describes was in response to the problem we were having with the long-range firing tables for machine guns --long range being more than 1000 yards.
At 1000 yards, a typical .30-06 bullet started at 2600 f/s is still traveling just about at 1200 f/s. But the investigations were done for ranges out to 4500 yards. (It's just getting down to 1100 f/s at about 1100 yards (Hatcher, op cit, p 402.)).
I maintain that the sales clerk was essentially correct, based on Hatcher's generally-accepted expertise. If you wish to disagree, feel free.
Fin.
Titan6
member
Love the gun store lies
Some of my favorites;
This guy went for broke:
'This is the .380 pistol. It is the same as the .38 special. The .38 Special was used by police everywhere but they quit using it because it would shoot through bullet proof vests and kill their own guys. The police ran into a problem later in Calfornia because the bank robbers started wearing bullet proof vests and they had 9mm's instead of .38s and couldn't stop 'em.'
Another favorite heard recently:
GSG: 'This is a CMP rifle and has been completely rebuilt to original military specifications, they just keep the stock a little beat up because people like the old beech wood' (actually was a poor rack grade)
ME (playing along): 'Was it used in Greece? I hear a lot of them came from Greece.'
GSG: 'No. It has no import marks so it has never left the country'
And the old classic you still hear from time to time:
'This is a .44 magnum the most powerful handgun in the world!'
Some of my favorites;
This guy went for broke:
'This is the .380 pistol. It is the same as the .38 special. The .38 Special was used by police everywhere but they quit using it because it would shoot through bullet proof vests and kill their own guys. The police ran into a problem later in Calfornia because the bank robbers started wearing bullet proof vests and they had 9mm's instead of .38s and couldn't stop 'em.'
Another favorite heard recently:
GSG: 'This is a CMP rifle and has been completely rebuilt to original military specifications, they just keep the stock a little beat up because people like the old beech wood' (actually was a poor rack grade)
ME (playing along): 'Was it used in Greece? I hear a lot of them came from Greece.'
GSG: 'No. It has no import marks so it has never left the country'
And the old classic you still hear from time to time:
'This is a .44 magnum the most powerful handgun in the world!'
230RN
2A was "political" when it was first adopted.
VARifleman said:
OK. I was making a comparison because someone else talked about a "well-thrown baseball" compared to a .357. I added in the shotgun slug and made a calculator error as to the ft-lbs of energy involved, which should've been about 1400 foot pounds, not 530. My bad, and I edited that post (#13 in this thread) to thank the error-finder. --that's why there are now asterisks by the "530" number in the original post.
There are many indices of "knockdown power," none of which are ever completely agreed upon --momentum is one, "RSP" (Relative Stopping Power) another, etc, etc, etc. Some believe (I'm not arguing, here) that velocity is the major contributor to effectiveness because of the shock delivered.
In this connection, I have often wisecracked that if velocity were the main criterion of effectiveness, we would be struck dead instantly if hit by a really zingy cosmic ray. (That's a wisecrack, folks.)
That's a wisecrack, folks.
That's a wisecrack, folks.
However, the energy comparison is the most frequently used, as can be seen in any ballistics table. This is not to say that it is always the best basis for comparison of terminal ballistics.
Suffice it to say that I'd rather be hit by a well-thrown baseball than a 12 gauge 3" shotgun slug --regardless of the personal protection involved.
And I'm sure most Catchers and Umpires would agree.
Thanks for your comments.
OK. I was making a comparison because someone else talked about a "well-thrown baseball" compared to a .357. I added in the shotgun slug and made a calculator error as to the ft-lbs of energy involved, which should've been about 1400 foot pounds, not 530. My bad, and I edited that post (#13 in this thread) to thank the error-finder. --that's why there are now asterisks by the "530" number in the original post.
There are many indices of "knockdown power," none of which are ever completely agreed upon --momentum is one, "RSP" (Relative Stopping Power) another, etc, etc, etc. Some believe (I'm not arguing, here) that velocity is the major contributor to effectiveness because of the shock delivered.
In this connection, I have often wisecracked that if velocity were the main criterion of effectiveness, we would be struck dead instantly if hit by a really zingy cosmic ray. (That's a wisecrack, folks.)
That's a wisecrack, folks.
That's a wisecrack, folks.
However, the energy comparison is the most frequently used, as can be seen in any ballistics table. This is not to say that it is always the best basis for comparison of terminal ballistics.
Suffice it to say that I'd rather be hit by a well-thrown baseball than a 12 gauge 3" shotgun slug --regardless of the personal protection involved.
And I'm sure most Catchers and Umpires would agree.
Thanks for your comments.
heres a good one from a gun shop thats only a couple miles from my house, and is completely useless.
Me: I see youre still out of 7.62x39 (its been over 2 months since i bought the last of it)
Owner: Yup
Me: When will you be getting more in?
Owner: There aint no more to get! You cant find that stuff no where!
Me: Oh, wow.
I SERIOUSLY cannot believe he is still open. He sold my friend a 250 dollar SKS that didnt even shoot. Theres so many things wrong with that statement i wont even comment anymore.
Me: I see youre still out of 7.62x39 (its been over 2 months since i bought the last of it)
Owner: Yup
Me: When will you be getting more in?
Owner: There aint no more to get! You cant find that stuff no where!
Me: Oh, wow.
I SERIOUSLY cannot believe he is still open. He sold my friend a 250 dollar SKS that didnt even shoot. Theres so many things wrong with that statement i wont even comment anymore.
EOD Guy
Member
waynedm said:
There are several autoloading pistols that are chambered for the .38 special cartridge. I was issued one (a Smith & Wesson Model 52) in the Army.
A lot of Colt .38 super auto pistols were also converted to .38 special.
sacp81170a
Member
Uh, actually, in most states it's against the fish and game laws to hunt with FMJ. Strictly speaking, you can hunt with FMJ, just like you can exceed the speed limit in your automobile.
Back OT:
My favorite: "Those 30 round AR mags are $29.95 apiece because the demand for 'em is so high after the AWB sunset."
U
universal
Guest
The above quoted post is the winner as far as I am concerned.
I have one to share as well. I actually think the sales person who told me this is a member here and I think he is a nice guy, just a bit misinformed. This person stated that he did not recommend Glocks for police use because they were designed for military use which meant that they would be carried with an empty chamber and therefore with the trigger in the rearward position. If one were to carry a Glock with a round in the chamber and the trigger forward, it would be prone to get ice build-up behind the trigger.
I did not see any need to continue the conversation and decided to get my gun advice elsewhere.
trueblue1776
Member
"this 7.62x39 is armor piercing" - Professional Superior Expert
"really? It's says lead core FMJ on the box" - Me
"All 7.62x39 is armor piercing, It will go right through a bullet proof vest" - Professional Superior Expert
I think he expected me to buy his complete stock after that. I guess he figured I had no clue what a rifle round is, and I figured he had no clue what armor piercing rounds were generally made of.
"really? It's says lead core FMJ on the box" - Me
"All 7.62x39 is armor piercing, It will go right through a bullet proof vest" - Professional Superior Expert
I think he expected me to buy his complete stock after that. I guess he figured I had no clue what a rifle round is, and I figured he had no clue what armor piercing rounds were generally made of.
Was selling an SKS at a garage sale I was having. Had a sign on it “Norinco SKS”.
Guy picks it up looks at it and said. “That’s a nice rare Japanese made gun.”
I said. “No it was make in China.”
He said “No way” and points to the factory 26 triangle and says “That is the triad symbol, it is defiantly Japanese, I have two at home.”
C.J.
Guy picks it up looks at it and said. “That’s a nice rare Japanese made gun.”
I said. “No it was make in China.”
He said “No way” and points to the factory 26 triangle and says “That is the triad symbol, it is defiantly Japanese, I have two at home.”
C.J.
cbsbyte
Member
I never listen to gunshop people. Most of the time they are clueless liars who only care about making a buck.
tinygnat219
Member
Badman3374,
Depends on who he was charging the gates for. That's the guy I would be worried about.
Depends on who he was charging the gates for. That's the guy I would be worried about.
Guzzizzit
Member
This one is more scarry than funny.
I was in a "Sportsmans WareHouse" (for those not familiar, it is a large chain hunting/shooting etc. store) to pick up some primmers and powder and the like and i decided to take a look in the pistol case to see if anything caught my eye. While i was there a another customer walk up to the counter and asker the cleark if they had the New GLOCK 21 SF in yet....
Cleark: No, we Havent had any of them for months, sold out just before christmas and they havnt come in yet. (The glock 21 SF wast even on the market until just a few weeks ago) But do you have kids?
Customer: Yes.
Cleark: How old are they?
Customer: one is 7 and one is 9
Cleark: "Well, if you have kids you dont want a glock anyway. With kids that young you need a SpringField XD. With the grip safety THERES NO WAY KIDS CAN FIRE IT. You can leave it loaded right on your night stand and even if the kids do get ahold of it they'll never be able to hold it tight enough dissable the safety"
I was down right SHOCKED that anyone would make such a statement. Needless to say, i left my basket of primmers/powder on the counter and walked out. It was all i could do to keep from jumping over the counter and kicking the guy straight in the rear.
I was in a "Sportsmans WareHouse" (for those not familiar, it is a large chain hunting/shooting etc. store) to pick up some primmers and powder and the like and i decided to take a look in the pistol case to see if anything caught my eye. While i was there a another customer walk up to the counter and asker the cleark if they had the New GLOCK 21 SF in yet....
Cleark: No, we Havent had any of them for months, sold out just before christmas and they havnt come in yet. (The glock 21 SF wast even on the market until just a few weeks ago) But do you have kids?
Customer: Yes.
Cleark: How old are they?
Customer: one is 7 and one is 9
Cleark: "Well, if you have kids you dont want a glock anyway. With kids that young you need a SpringField XD. With the grip safety THERES NO WAY KIDS CAN FIRE IT. You can leave it loaded right on your night stand and even if the kids do get ahold of it they'll never be able to hold it tight enough dissable the safety"
I was down right SHOCKED that anyone would make such a statement. Needless to say, i left my basket of primmers/powder on the counter and walked out. It was all i could do to keep from jumping over the counter and kicking the guy straight in the rear.
Aguila Blanca
Member
Back at the end of the AWB I happened to be in a gun shop when the (HAWT!) local television mediaperson came by to do a story on what the expiration of the ban might mean. And I had to stand there and try to keep my mouth shut as I listened to the shop owner patiently explain to the hottie that a flash hider was so that enemy troops couldn't return fire on you at night because it prevented them from seeing the muzzle flash.
Oh ... my ... God. :banghead:
Oh ... my ... God.
:banghead:Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
Uh . . . . OK . . . . but isn't that what a flash hider is for? Seriously?
I get that it doesn't make the muzzle flash invisible, but it IS intended to redirect the flash in such a way that it's less visible, and what could possibly be the purpose of that unless it's the hope that an enemy won't notice the dissipated flash?
In other words, you're probably technically right, but I would think he's essentially right.
Unless I'm just totally mistaken, which has happened to me on occasion.
I get that it doesn't make the muzzle flash invisible, but it IS intended to redirect the flash in such a way that it's less visible, and what could possibly be the purpose of that unless it's the hope that an enemy won't notice the dissipated flash?
In other words, you're probably technically right, but I would think he's essentially right.
Unless I'm just totally mistaken, which has happened to me on occasion.
dralarms
Member
A flash hider does nothing more than direct the flash AWAY from you so at dusk or at night it doesn't blind you.
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