"I know you hate pot metal, but...."

maxxhavoc said:
GSG STG44?
Click to expand...
That one actually works.
aPEuiuh.jpg
 
I have no clue about the mystery whatever. I just jumped in to say that I have been shooting a GSG 1911-22 for years and it has been trouble free so don't damn them all. It is #2 as I gave my first to my son. It has been dependable too.
 
I also have 4 Colt/Walther/Umarex 1911-22s. They shoot the hell out of everything I feed them everytime without fail! These pot metal guns have brought our family more fun than anything else we do together.
 
If its a handgun, maybe one of these small scale Browning 22’s?

This “compact” one I bought used a few months ago is pretty accurate for a micro gun and it eats any ammo I have fed it like Pac Man. 😆
IMG_2692.jpeg

Stay safe.
 
And the winner is.....
1702077233255.jpg
Erma .22 Luger

As zinc pot-metal guns go, they actually aren't all that bad. They were a much better effort than the terrible Stoeger mini-Lugers, at least.
My Dad has one that will sometimes feed an entire magazine if you find a cartridge it likes that day, and the fit and finish are quite nice.

The one my buddy is selling is pretty rough, with heavy oxidation of the zinc parts and some pitting on the steel bits. The trigger is also binding and the safety is rusted in place. He doesn't want much for it, but it sounds like more trouble than it's worth. Lol.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
And the winner is.....
View attachment 1183508
Erma .22 Luger

As zinc pot-metal guns go, they actually aren't all that bad. They were a much better effort than the terrible Stoeger mini-Lugers, at least.
My Dad has one that will sometimes feed an entire magazine if you find a cartridge it likes that day, and the fit and finish are quite nice.

The one my buddy is selling is pretty rough, with heavy oxidation of the zinc parts and some pitting on the steel bits. The trigger is also binding and the safety is rusted in place. He doesn't want much for it, but it sounds like more trouble than it's worth. Lol.
Click to expand...
I would actually be a player on something like that just to save an otherwise unwanted gun that has some potential to be a neat item again.
 
WestKentucky said:
I would actually be a player on something like that just to save an otherwise unwanted gun that has some potential to be a neat item again.
Click to expand...
I told him I'll take it if he wants to let it go for $100, but really, really don't need any more projects right now.

Besides, even in like new condition, as my Dads is, they are just barely functional firearms, lol.
 
I had the opportunity to buy one for $100 or so. I can't remember exactly but I made a thread a couple years ago asking for information about it, the general consensus was that it wasn't worth the trouble and wasn't much of a shooter and was prone to malfunctions and hard to find/buy magazines.....
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
And the winner is.....
View attachment 1183508
Erma .22 Luger

As zinc pot-metal guns go, they actually aren't all that bad. They were a much better effort than the terrible Stoeger mini-Lugers, at least.
My Dad has one that will sometimes feed an entire magazine if you find a cartridge it likes that day, and the fit and finish are quite nice.

The one my buddy is selling is pretty rough, with heavy oxidation of the zinc parts and some pitting on the steel bits. The trigger is also binding and the safety is rusted in place. He doesn't want much for it, but it sounds like more trouble than it's worth. Lol.
Click to expand...
$100!!! buy + range report
 
Dammit, got in late because I was gonna guess the Stoeger "Luger" because someone tried to sell us one for years such that it became a running joke and at one point he was "trying" to tell us to mount a scope to it, I said it wouldn't work, and he pulled out a magnet and said "No, it's made of... [magnet falls off]... a metal-like substance."

The Erma is indeed one worth if almost pride instead, though :)

The whole thing minus springs, pins, and barrel liner is zamak right? As fun as it would be, not a shooter as any major parts breakage is deadlined for life though.
 
shoobe01 said:
Dammit, got in late because I was gonna guess the Stoeger "Luger" because someone tried to sell us one for years such that it became a running joke and at one point he was "trying" to tell us to mount a scope to it, I said it wouldn't work, and he pulled out a magnet and said "No, it's made of... [magnet falls off]... a metal-like substance."

The Erma is indeed one worth if almost pride instead, though :)

The whole thing minus springs, pins, and barrel liner is zamak right? As fun as it would be, not a shooter as any major parts breakage is deadlined for life though.
Click to expand...
The bolt toggle is steel, as is the upper receiver and some of the small parts. Early guns had an all-steel barrel but later production was zamak with a steel liner.
 
tactikel said:
What is it? And I want one!
Click to expand...
Hmm? Not familiar with the Erma Lugers?
1702131624722.jpg
Well, they were made in post WW2 Germany to cash in on the militaria craze. Erma was a supplier of German wartime guns (mostly submachine guns), but never actually part of the Luger program. Just a rough guestimate on my part, but production probably ran from the late '60s through mid-90s.

They are largely made of cast-zinc/aluminum alloy, also known as Zamak or "pot-metal." There are different grades of zinc alloys, some being very strong and durable, but the lesser grades are prone to crystalization, cracking, and even disintegration- the material gained a particularly bad rap when used on old model trains that tended to fall apart in your hands after a few years in the attic. Zinc alloys also oxidize very quickly, often aquiring powdery white corrosion on unprotected surfaces.
Because it is a quick and easy metal to pour and cast in finished shapes, it gained favor with many cheaper gun makers- Raven, Jennings, Bryco, etc. Some still use it, like Ruger for the Wrangler grip frame and Henry on their rimfire rifles.
The Germans have long had a fascination with Zamak. Rohm, RG, Weihrauch, and Erma were big on it- most everything GSG imports now is largely made of Zamak.
I have an abiding hatred of the stuff.

The Erma Lugers were some of the better attempts to make a commercial Luger knockoff. Most were .22s, but there were also .32 and .380 variants.
450px-ErmaLuger.jpg
They even made a really nifty-looking "carbine" version.
Erma-ET22-1967-ad.jpg
56f9c1877c7e3.image.jpg
Though they appear very similar, the Erma is an unlocked blowback, whereas the real Luger action is locked until the upper receiver recoils far enough for the toggle ears to hit the fixed frame ramps. The upper on the Erma, though a seperate (and steel) part, does not move independently of the (Zamak) gripframe.
Earlier guns had an all-steel barrel, wood grips, and a non-functional shoulder stock lug. Later production went to a 2-piece steel-lined zinc barrel and plastic grips and the lug was deleted
Even when new, these guns had a pretty spotty reputation for reliability. My Dad's example will mostly run with hotter ammo such as Minimags, but even then jams are common.
Stoeger made .22 "Lugers" during the same time period, also largely of Zamak, but using a stamped-steel toggle. They are no more reliable than the Ermas, don't look as authentic, and of generally lower quality.
s-l1600.jpg

I've seen folks asking insane money for both the Erma and Stoeger, probably because they are German and LOOK like the real thing. IMO, they are fun to look and play with, but make only subpar working firearms.
 
Last edited:
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Hmm? Not familiar with the Erma Lugers?
View attachment 1183727
Well, they were made in post WW2 Germany to cash in on the militaria craze. Erma was a supplier of German wartime guns (mostly submachine guns), but never actually part of the Luger program. Just a rough guestimate on my part, but production probably ran from the late '60s through mid-90s.

They are largely made of cast-zinc/aluminum alloy, also known as Zamak or "pot-metal." There are different grades of zinc alloys, some being very strong and durable, but the lesser grades are prone to crystalization, cracking, and even disintegration- the material gained a particularly bad rap when used on old model trains that tended to fall apart in your hands after a few years in the attic. Zinc alloys also oxidize very quickly, often aquiring powdery white corrosion on unprotected surfaces.
Because it is a quick and easy metal to pour and cast in finished shapes, it gained favor with many cheaper gun makers- Raven, Jennings, Bryco, etc. Some still use it, like Ruger for the Wrangler grip frame and Henry on their rimfire rifles.
The Germans have long had a fascination with Zamak. Rohm, RG, Weihrauch, and Erma were big on it- most everything GSG imports now is largely made of Zamak.
I have an abiding hatred of the stuff.

The Erma Lugers were some of the better attempts to make a commercial Luger knockoff. Most were .22s, but there were also .32 and .380 variants.
View attachment 1183729
They even made a really nifty-looking "carbine" version.
View attachment 1183730
View attachment 1183731
Though they appear very similar, the Erma is an unlocked blowback, whereas the real Luger action is locked until the upper receiver recoils far enough for the toggle ears to hit the fixed frame ramps. The upper on the Erma, though a seperate (and steel) part, does not move independently of the (Zamak) gripframe.
Earlier guns had an all-steel barrel, wood grips, and a non-functional shoulder stock lug. Later production went to a 2-piece steel-lined zinc barrel and plastic grips and the lug was deleted
Even when new, these guns had a pretty spotty reputation for reliability. My Dad's example will mostly run with hotter ammo such as Minimags, but even then jams are common.
Stoeger made .22 "Lugers" during the same time period, also largely of Zamak, but using a stamped-steel toggle. They are no more reliable than the Ermas, don't look as authentic, and of generally lower quality.
View attachment 1183738

I've seen folks asking insane money for both the Erma and Stoeger, probably because they are German and LOOK like the real thing. IMO, they are fun to look and play with, but make only subpar working firearms.
Click to expand...
Anybody know or can expand on the "Wanted" bulletin where it says "the killer may have used corundum or red rouge for fire lapping of the weapon". What is fire lapping and why would a killer do it. I'm gonna take a guess and say it's something to do with screwing with the rifling to fudge up ballistic ID.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Hmm? Not familiar with the Erma Lugers?
View attachment 1183727
Well, they were made in post WW2 Germany to cash in on the militaria craze. Erma was a supplier of German wartime guns (mostly submachine guns), but never actually part of the Luger program. Just a rough guestimate on my part, but production probably ran from the late '60s through mid-90s.

They are largely made of cast-zinc/aluminum alloy, also known as Zamak or "pot-metal." There are different grades of zinc alloys, some being very strong and durable, but the lesser grades are prone to crystalization, cracking, and even disintegration- the material gained a particularly bad rap when used on old model trains that tended to fall apart in your hands after a few years in the attic. Zinc alloys also oxidize very quickly, often aquiring powdery white corrosion on unprotected surfaces.
Because it is a quick and easy metal to pour and cast in finished shapes, it gained favor with many cheaper gun makers- Raven, Jennings, Bryco, etc. Some still use it, like Ruger for the Wrangler grip frame and Henry on their rimfire rifles.
The Germans have long had a fascination with Zamak. Rohm, RG, Weihrauch, and Erma were big on it- most everything GSG imports now is largely made of Zamak.
I have an abiding hatred of the stuff.

The Erma Lugers were some of the better attempts to make a commercial Luger knockoff. Most were .22s, but there were also .32 and .380 variants.
View attachment 1183729
They even made a really nifty-looking "carbine" version.
View attachment 1183730
View attachment 1183731
Though they appear very similar, the Erma is an unlocked blowback, whereas the real Luger action is locked until the upper receiver recoils far enough for the toggle ears to hit the fixed frame ramps. The upper on the Erma, though a seperate (and steel) part, does not move independently of the (Zamak) gripframe.
Earlier guns had an all-steel barrel, wood grips, and a non-functional shoulder stock lug. Later production went to a 2-piece steel-lined zinc barrel and plastic grips and the lug was deleted
Even when new, these guns had a pretty spotty reputation for reliability. My Dad's example will mostly run with hotter ammo such as Minimags, but even then jams are common.
Stoeger made .22 "Lugers" during the same time period, also largely of Zamak, but using a stamped-steel toggle. They are no more reliable than the Ermas, don't look as authentic, and of generally lower quality.
View attachment 1183738

I've seen folks asking insane money for both the Erma and Stoeger, probably because they are German and LOOK like the real thing. IMO, they are fun to look and play with, but make only subpar working firearms.
Click to expand...
these Stoger & Erma show up regularly at my Honey Hole shop. Priced very cheaply too
 
I bid on one of those a little while ago, it went for $250 over my max bid of $350, so I hope the new owner got a good one. :thumbup:

Stay safe.
 
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