I really want a 260. That's where the problem begins!

[GJgo]

So I've had a sweet spot for a 6.5mm cartridge for a long time, and as I've gotten more serious about it I'm coming to realize that they just don't "make" what I'm looking for. :\ So, I guess I'll have to do it another way!

Do I buy the parts individually and put together a custom? Do I buy what I want in a 22-250/243/7_08/308 and just screw on a 260 barrel? What components (brands) should I be looking for? I've had lots of factory rifles over the years so it might be fun to put together one on my own.

I want to set it up for long range shooting, so I'd like the shortest barrel I can get the velocity I need from- I know a lot of 308 guys are shooting 20". I'm thinking bullets in the 140gr range, so I'm thinking a 1:8 or 1:9 twist. I handload.

I want a bolt gun. Maybe start out with a Savage target action? If I call Savage's custom shop would they make me the rifle I want? Realistically I have a budget of under a grand for the gun. I'm not looking to make a crazy match rifle or anything, just something that does what I want it to do with a solid stock.

I'm hoping to see the fast twist 6.5s catch on more with time, as I'm sure are others on this side of the pond.

 

[Big_E]

I hear ya as I want a .260 Rem. myself. There is always the Remington Model 7 it has a 20'' bbl.

If you could find a used .308 or .243 M700 or Savage then get that, put on a new barrel, maybe change the stock and whola! You're set.

 

[GJgo]

The Model 7 seems like a great deer rifle, but I'm leaning towards something I can set up to shoot longer / more with. Maybe start looking at used, good shape, shot out barrel rifles? Hmm..

 

[Zak Smith]

Gunsmiths all around the country can screw a .260 barrel on a Remington action.

If I were to do it in the sub-$1000 price range, I'd just buy a Tikka T3 in .260 off the shelf.

If you want a ready to go long-range rifle, buy one from GAP.

For hunting, I'd personally go 18-22 depending on the terrain I was in; for long-range 24-27".

-z

 

[browningguy]

The way I would (and will) go is a savage action and a pre-fit barrel from Shillen etc., you can change the barrel yourself and with a 24-26" varmint wieght tube you are good to go out to 1000 yards. My current gun is a .243 Savage 12 FV with a Sharpshooter Supply LVT stock, but I am leaning towards the .260 when I get a new barrel.

 

[nhm16]

I bought a Savage action and a McGowen barrel. I'm going to send the action off to Sharpshooter Supply to be timed and trued, and I ordered a stock from them. Once they come back I'll put it together myself. If you do something along those lines you can build it any way you want.

EDIT: Browningguy beat me to it, and he has an actual gun to show for it. Do you shoot at Bayou Rifles?

 

[jbkebert]

I picked up a 700 CDL in .260 rem nice rifle very pretty. My wife shoots it but the factory trigger required a team of oxen to pull it. I replaced with a jewell trigger set at 2.5# or a hair under. Also had the barrel bedded and the bolt lapped and trued the action. So I spent way to much money to make this rifle shoot like a savage will out of the box.:banghead:

 

[Beagle-zebub]

What is this action-truing of which some of you speak? And while we're at it, what kind of timing is there that gets addressed?

 

[rangerruck]

I'm down with zak, browning guy, heck most sugestions here. For a good all arounder though, I would think a Savage FV varminter style, with a 26 inch bbl put on it, would be a darn fine starting point. or get one of their new rifles with the new accustock, and have it swapped out with a 260 bbl.

 

[jbkebert]

I had a gun smith true the bolt to the action so it would cycle more smoothly. I am not sure what you mean by timing. The way I got the rifle the bolt felt like it hung up when cycling. Almost like it was forcing past a burr or something. Anyway if I didn't like the way the rifle looked I could of saved myself a fair amount of money. IMHO remmy guns are severly lacking in the quality control dept.

 

[JimmAr]

6.5x55 is offered in lapua brass.. forget the 260.

 

[Zak Smith]

6.5x55 doesn't fit in a short action.

 

[JimmAr]

6.5x55 doesn't fit in a short action.

Your 6.5x47 outshoots your 260 doesnt it?.. I would imagine a factor in that is the brass quality no?

 

[Zak Smith]

[Your 6.5x47 outshoots your 260 doesnt it?.. I would imagine a factor in that is the brass quality no?

Points of fact: I kept the .260 barrel and I use Lapua brass for both.

 

[Steve Marshall]

You talk about how no one makes the rifle you want then ask if you can rebarrel a common .473" action. What do you want that no one makes?

 

[GJgo]

If there was an off-the-shelf that would fit my bill, a close approximation would be one of the new Savage 10 Precision Carbines w/ Accustock, chambered in 260, with a stainless 8 twist barrel. (So maybe I've answered my own question) If I were to go a step further it'd have their target action (red trigger).

Sometimes I just need to bounce ideas off guys that don't work at the gun counter, if you know what I mean..

 

[Zak Smith]

Maybe define your bill of requirements?

I didn't see anything you posted that ruled out the Remington Big_E suggested or the Tikkta T3 I suggested.

You have emphasized twice that you want it for long-range shooting, but you also want a short barrel. These two goals are at odds. If you really want to shoot accurately at long range, you want probably at least a 0.5-moa rifle with a longer barrel (rather than shorter). Barrel and rifle mass (and a brake or suppressor) will help considerably. You need a scope with specific features for successful UKD long-range shooting.

On the other hand, if you want a nice compact field rifle for almost any big game in N.America and will mainly shoot within a range of about 300-350 yards, a the Tikka T3 Lite/Compact or Remington would be just about ideal.

 

[GJgo]

True, there is usually a dichotomy of wanting two different things that are at odds in the same package. I see that a lot with customers of my work.

I have been kicking around the following thought though- Given the success people (Zak, I have read quite a bit on your website) have with the 260 and H4350, I'm thinking I may be able to get 24-26" velocities with a 20-22" barrel and this 5 lb jug of Reloder 17 I have kicking around. There isn't a lot of internet info out there on Rl17 yet so it remains to be seen. The other side of this thought comes from reading of the success many are having with the 308 and the 20" barrel. Of course, that may have something to do with the larger bore combined with the faster burning 308 powders like Varget (my favorite) allowing for a complete burn in 20", where this may be more difficult to acheive with the 6.5 bore and a slower powder like 4350. I don't know. With that said I'd be open to a 22 or a 24", but having owned a couple 26" rifles in the past I really didn't enjoy carrying them around for any type of hunting.

The long-range part of it just comes down to me wanting something with good ballistics that I can go to the range and take long pokes at paper and steel for fun, practice, and learning to read wind better. None of my current long guns are feasible to shoot past oh I'd say 500 yds.

The Remington model 7 is a great suggestion. I'd prefer a stainless 8 twist to the blued 9 twist it has. As it is, however, I would seriously entertain just getting one if only there was ever one for sale in a store. Rebarreling down the road would be a no-brainer. I have never seen one, and I've been to a lot of gun stores. I really prefer to be touchy-feely with a firearm before I buy it as opposed to mail order.

The Tikka is a good suggestion as well, but once again, I've never seen one for sale in a store. I have however seen that rifle in different calibers. I've heard great reviews about its accuracy, however, honestly I really have a hard time getting past the plastic trigger guard & magazine. I prefer metal.

I know there has been a 260 made by Sako, and I could go for that, but once again good luck finding it. My "fun" gun is a Model 75 6PPC, and I love it.

A rebarreled Savage would be pretty easy as well, and of course would incite the typical "Remington vs. Savage" arguments. I've owned and enjoyed both.

Thanks guys for all your suggestions, and helping me hone in on my train of thought on this one.

 

[Zak Smith]

Several associates and I have been shooting RL17 in our .260's for about nine months now. It does what it does in other calibers in .260 as well. With 140's, starting at 40 grains was safe in all three rifles.

The argument about "24-26" velocities in a 20-22" is kind of a fallacy. Given the same powder type/technology is used in both barrels, you can't do it. You'll get lower velocity in the shorter barrel, simple as that. Sometimes that can make a difference in effectiveness, sometimes it won't.

With regard to "success of the 20" in .308", I just wrote this a couple days ago in another thread:

If you're shooting at small targets at 0-200 yards, a 20" doesn't lose much performance. If your job consists of carrying around a rifle in your trunk every day and possibly shooting something small at an average of 70 yards, going down to 20" doesn't cause much problem, and it's more handy.

If you're shooting at any target at 500-1000 yards, going from a 24-26 down to a 20" will be a marked disadvantage. The best .308 loads out of long barrels are already a handicapped setup compared to the preferred rifles/cartridges for those distances.

At the 2008 Steel Safari, we had a former USMC sniper and very good rifle shooter using an 18" .308 (the DARPA XM-3) shooting mil-spec 175gr match ammo. I would rate his skills amongst the top 5 shooters at the match. He came in 15th. The best .308 shooter was using an approx 24" barrel firing the 155 Lapua Scenar at over 2925 fps. I would also rate him amongst the top five shooters for skill. He came in 7th. The top 10 places were dominated by 6.5 mm and 7 mm cartridges.

Cartridge differences aside, this should demonstrate the relative abilities of long .308 barrels with a great load vs. a short barrel with a legacy load.

The difference in "carryability" is mental, not actual, unless you are in some extreme tight brush type terrain, and then you'd be better off with a 16" .30-30 anyway. An extra 4" weighs no more than a few ounces and the length itself isn't really a factor. I usually shoot 24-27" rifles with a 9" suppressor off the end, so my perspective is a little warped, though.

None of my current long guns are feasible to shoot past oh I'd say 500 yds.

I noticed in other threads you said you had a heavy barrel .308, a .300 WSM sporter, and a 6mm PPC. While not the absolutely most competitive cartridges for long-range, the .308 and the .300 WSM can absolutely be competent to 1000 yards. Heck, the argument for the .260 is that it has external ballistics as good as .300WM with half the powder & recoil. Depending on the twist, the 6mm BR might be a little better than .223, up to being as good as .260 (ie, if you can shoot a 115gr DTAC at 3000 fps). So you've already got rifles that would work fine for long-range, certainly for learning about shooting LR.

If you wanted to go all-out for a rifle specifically designed for long-range shooting, it would make more sense to get a 26" .260 (or even better caliber), heavy, with brake and a really good scope for LR shooting. That would be one way to differentiate compared to your other rifles. But it seems like getting a 20-22" .260 would be another "compromise" rifle for LR, perhaps not unlike the setups of the other rifles you've got already.

 

[rangerruck]

you know, that is really interesting about the r/17 powder; I was under the assumption that this was more designed to hit top speeds faster, for bullets from 14 cal up to 6mm, and not really optimal for heavier bullets or bigger cals than 6; so that is good to know.

By the way GJgo; your put together solution for the non existing savage 260? Sounds like
a rig I would buy off the shelf right now!!!!

 

[Zak Smith]

re: RL17. Actually, the opposite. It's somewhere between H4350 and H4831 in terms of burn rate, but it has the burn-rate controlling chemical permeated through the granules, instead of just coating them. This smooths out the burn, in effect, hitting maximum pressure later in time (or further down the barrel). Effectively, the pressure peak is pushed down and the whole pressure curve persists longer. The article on RL-17 on 6mmBR.com is very good. The winner of the 2009 Steel Safari used RL-17 in his 7mm WSM. It's a versatile powder.

 

[GJgo]

Very insightful, Zak, point taken. I'm sure that I'm not the only one that is greatful for your insight around here.

My 300 WSM is a lightweight (Vanguard) sporter with a low power (Swarovski) scope for Elk hunting- it's about 7.5 lbs fully dressed. With my stout 180gr handloads I have to admit I've been pretty unsuccessful at hitting anything vital size past oh say 350-400 yards with it since I put on the lower power scope. I've put a self-imposed limit on it to around 300 yards for making clean 1 shot kills while hunting, as I've yet to come across a bench in the field.

I *had* a Savage 10fp 308, which was death to soda cans out to 600 yds with my 168gr Amax handloads. Farther than that it got weird, which probably had to do more with me or with the scope than with the rifle. I went and screwed it up when I took off the ugly Savage stock and put on a Choate "sniper" stock- that was a mistake that caused the accuracy to suffer. I ended up trading the gun off with the rationale that in the future I'd get something that'd reach out a little further, or at least a little flatter.

When I was writing above, to clarify my thought, I was saying that maybe I could get the same velocities with Reloder 17 in a 20-22" tube as were standard speeds one would be used to seeing out of a 24-26" tube with H4350. Obviously, ceteris paribus, shortening the barrel will cause a decrease in velocity.

From what I've read RL17 was designed for the short magnums, and happens to work well in other things that are around the 4350 burn rate. I bought the jug to work up a load for a 270 WSM I had for a while. I could never make the thing shoot like it should have, but I did manage to get some retarded velocities out of that powder with no pressure signs- first indications of pressure started around 3600 fps with 130gr Accubonds...

 

[Zak Smith]

Nothing wrong with the Choate stock - I don't know how he bedded it though

............... Larger version of above photo.

 

[GJgo]

I've been perusing the internet today looking about for ideas & such. Anyone have any thoughts / experience with the new Ruger (I know..) 6.5 Creedmoor bolt? It's an 8 twist!
Sporter rifle

Target rifle

 

[GunTech]

I haven't seen any Rugers at the matches I go to, and while they make decent hunting rigs for the money, their barrels aren't exactly know for their accuracy.

I just finished a M70 based sporter with a 20" Lilja 3 groove #5 fluted. It can still do under 1/2 MOA with Barnes TSX. I've got some Lapua Scenars and some SMK to try, and the 20 inch barrel doesn't seem to hamper 1 k shooting. I did have to get a 20 MOA base since the 1 inch Zeiss I am using doesn't have enough elevation for long range.

Still, since this was built as a superior deer killer, it's probably way overbuilt.