I shot my first reloads this week and I need help with accuracy...

[rmcelwee]

I think I am actually having more fun picking up brass from the range and cleaning/loading it than I am shooting.

Anyway, I spent the last two days testing my first reloads at the range. I used all copper 55 grain bullets, once fired Lake City brass and H335 powder. It looks like my Colt 6724 likes 24 grains the best out of the rounds I shot. I shot a 1.5" group with Wolf Gold 55 grain (my default store bought ammo). My best 5 shot groups (off a bipod) with the hand loads (maybe 20 rounds each) were:
24 grain - 1.25"
25 grain - 2.5"
25.5 grain - 1 7/8"
26 grain - 1 5/8"

It seemed like moving up to the hotter rounds spread the groups out. The 25.5 and 26 grain groups were usually around 2.5-3". So, where do I go from here? I have another 150 rounds of LC brass that I am priming right now. I'm thinking of doing some more 24 grain rounds but also stepping down a bit.

How far down do I go with the powder? I'm asking so I don't waste a lot of rounds finding out that 10 grains won't go down range.

 

[readyeddy]

I would try 23.5 and max. Sometimes .223 gives best accuracy when near or at max.

 

[readyeddy]

Also, your copper bullets are probably longer than normal so your 1/9 barrel may be too fast. Just a hunch.

 

[rmcelwee]

I would try 23.5 and max. Sometimes .223 gives best accuracy when near or at max.

I have no idea what max is. I think I have read maybe 5 different "max" loads so far.


Yes, my copper bullets would be longer than a normal projectile. I'm guessing that means more pressure.

 

[rmcelwee]

I just cooked up some 23 and 23.5 grain loads. So, I have those as well as some 24 and 25.5 grain loads for my next trip to the range (probably a week or so from now). I'll let you guys know how it works. Thanks!

 

[carbine85]

You will probably do better with 62 grain SMK bullets.
I don't get the best loads with H335. It's just an average powder.

 

[Gadawg88]

It's not the powder. You just have to find the right combo. H335 excels in .223 at least with 55gn bullets.

 

[Conservidave]

1.25" aint nothing to sneeze at, especially for your first reloads. Keep working at it and you'll be a better shooter too .

 

[Potatohead]

LOL, dont we all.

 

[wanderinwalker]

What kind of bullets are these all copper 55 grainers? Usually when somebody says "55 grain" and doesn't specify the type I assume FMJ, but all copper would indicate otherwise to me.

Any reason you skipped 24.5 grains? From your results I'd stay around 24-24.5 and would also try 23.5. As long as the brass is sealing the chamber well and the action is cycling, I see little harm in trying the lighter charge.

Additionally, what else have you tried in this rifle for accuracy? Right off the bat I'm thinking to try some kind of match hollow points or a tipped varmint bullet. Unless you're shooting in a location where you can't use lead cores.

 

[rmcelwee]

What kind of bullets are these all copper 55 grainers? Usually when somebody says "55 grain" and doesn't specify the type I assume FMJ, but all copper would indicate otherwise to me.

Any reason you skipped 24.5 grains? From your results I'd stay around 24-24.5 and would also try 23.5. As long as the brass is sealing the chamber well and the action is cycling, I see little harm in trying the lighter charge.

Additionally, what else have you tried in this rifle for accuracy? Right off the bat I'm thinking to try some kind of match hollow points or a tipped varmint bullet. Unless you're shooting in a location where you can't use lead cores.

They are ALL copper (not FMJ).

Yes, I skipped 24.5 because when I was adjusting my Lee powder thrower I was at 24 and a turn or two gave me 25. No reason in my mind to try 24.5 when 27 could have been the optimum charge. I had no idea.

I have tried nothing else in this rifle. I got a great deal on the all copper bullets ($135 for 2500 of them) and will be using them for quite a while. So, I'll just have to make due with what I have. The same as my powder. I have ten pounds of H335 right now so I won't be changing that for a while either.

In the past two months I've spent around $5K on guns and reloading so I have to chill out a bit.

 

[FMJBT]

You said all copper. I'm assuming you're shooting Barnes bullets?

From barnes website
http://www.barnesbullets.com/information/load-data/data-224/
.223 Remington

Bullet Weight: 55 gr Case Trim Length: 1.750" S.D. 0.157

Bullet Style: TSX FB Primer: Rem 7 1/2 B.C. 0.209

COAL: 2.180" Barrel Length: 24"

Case: R-P Twist Rate: 1:12"

Charge Velocity Charge Velocity Load

Powder (grains) (fps) (grains) (fps) Density (%)

H335 22.2 2869 24.2 3145 83

As you can see.. 24.2 gr is Max...

 

[Pilot]

What brand bullets are they? You should easily be getting sub MOA with that rifle, and decent bullets. I agree with others, increase the powder near Max. My AR's like a full power round also.

 

[grogetr]

Where are you getting your load data? Hodgdon shows 21.3 - 22.7gn of H335 with the Barnes 55gn

 

[witchhunter]

Make sure you shoot several groups of each load and average them out. One group of each load does not prove anything. Shoot more and the paper will not lie. The more you test, the more confidence you will have that you have the best load for your rifle.

 

[BCRider]

As I understand it a solid copper bullet puts more pressure against the rifling because it doesn't swage to the shape of the rifling as easily as a lead core bullet. So it's likely that you get a higher pressure with lower amount of powder. Which might explain your good results with relatively light charges.

As it happens a buddy was testing his own loads with a variety of lead core bullets just yesterday while we were at the range. His findings were that the gun did not like light or even medium loads. It shot best with the full power ones.

I have no other details than that. Just that it's interesting to read and see that others found that their ammo needed full pressure while you're finding that your best results are with less.

 

[jakk280rem]

Don't forget too, the 5.56 brass you are using has a thicker web than 223 brass and therefore less internal volume. A near max load in 223 brass may be at or above max in the 5.56 brass you are using.

 

[cpt-t]

rmcelwee: ((( IMHO ))) There is nothing wrong with Your choice of powder. H-335 is a great choice for the 223 or .556. It is your choice of bullets that is Your problem I think. I have been trying to make all copper bullets like the Barnes Varmint Grenade bullets work for a long time now in a CZ 22 Hornet , AR or Bolt Gun in 223`s, and a Sako 243. All three of these rifles will shoot 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch groups using Match Grade BTHP`s bullets or good Jacketed, Plastic Tiped, Lead Core Bullets. About 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inch groups at a 100yds is about as good as I can get the lead free bullets to shoot. These lead free bullets are longer and they just don`t work very well for me at this time. And most every one I have talked to is experenceing the same problems. Just try a box or two of the 52 gr BTHP Match bullets from Speer, Hornaday, or Serria. Or any of the V-Max type bullets from Hornaday, Serria, or Nosler. And I have also had very good results using the 52 gr BT A-Max bullets from Hornaday in any of our AR`s. I think You will be very susprised on how much better your AR will Group with any of these bullets I have listed for You. Also I have found if I seat the bullets as far forward as I can and still load them in my AR mag`s or clips for my Bolt Gun`s they shoot better for me. GOOD LUCK TO YOU:
ken

 

[rmcelwee]

These are the bullets I am using:
http://www.theamericanmarksman.com/CopperHead-223-Remington-55gr-BT-SOLID-COPPER-silghtly-blemished-600-count-Buy-500-get-100-FREE-Free-Shipping_p_377.html

My reload data has come from several sources, all of which have different loads listed.

 

[twofifty]

using a bipod...

I am wondering if working up a load from a bipod is the most consistent way to test loads.

The general idea is to minimize the effects of variability in shooter input or shooter error from each shot's flight path. A set of heavy shooting bags can do that very consistently.

Please disregard if you are an expert bipod user.

 

[TBJK]

Did you weigh your projectiles? I do that with mine then seperate them into different classes

 

[FMJBT]

You bought slightly blemished projectiles...

You're expecting sub-moa from these?

 

[rmcelwee]

You bought slightly blemished projectiles...

You're expecting sub-moa from these?

Why not? I'm shooting 1.25 MOA right now with the incorrect powder charge on the first set of rounds I've ever reloaded off a bipod and a scope I got in a trade for a brick of Thunderbolt 22LR ammo. Can't help it if you need to buy the best stuff in order to be accurate.

No, my original question was if accuracy would get better as I dropped the charge and how low I could go on the powder charge. It is kind of moot right now since I have already loaded my next set of rounds and will find out how they shoot in a week. I will report my findings here when I have them.


So, follow up question. If I find that 23.5 grain rounds shoot better than 23.0 and 24.0 do I try to sweeten it up a bit more by playing around with tenths of a grain or is that just a waste of time?


My brass trimming method is pretty weak and I am getting around 0.020" range in the lengths of my brass. I have purchased a Lee Quick Trim Deluxe and 223 die for my next attempt and I am hoping for better results (and less strain on my hands - I have a used Ebay Lee Zip Trim now). I'm thinking the brass length may be a factor in my groupings. No, I have not been sorting the brass by length.

 

[Mr.Revolverguy]

Before playing with anymore with powder I would try different over all lengths.

 

[griff383]

If it were me I would play with the low end since you got a decent group, but thats me. I always try to get the best group with the least amount of powder so it lasts longer and is easier on the firearm/brass. Playing with the OAL might tighten things up a bit.

At those prices I might have to grab some and see what they can do in my rig, thanks for sharing the link