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Carl Levitian

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On another knife slanted forum, I saw where some nutcase in Hawaii has introduced a bill to outlaw the carrying of ANY folding knife. Of course we hope it won't go through, and it most likly won't. But we have to consider that with the rise in the "tactical" stuff, some liberals now have knives on the radar. Thanks to the higher profile of pocket clips, aggresive blade shapes, and nitwits flicking them open with a flurish when they have to open a package that could have been opened with a sak classic, the anit's are now very aware of knives.

As knife owners, like gun owners, we are sometimes our own worst enemy.

I understand Boston has a law prohibiting a blade more than 2 inches, and Some other cities have laws against locking blade knives. Shades of the U.K.

I have a feeling that a tide has started to turn in the wrong direction. I hope I'm wrong.
 
bill in the Hawaii State Legislature that would BAN ALL pocket knives.

If you are not aware of this, there is currently a bill in the Hawaii State Legislature that would BAN ALL pocket knives.

Summary Page

There are links at the top of the page to download text of the actual bill.

Here is a link to the bill in pdf form

Here is an article in Blade_Mag. A letter from AKTI to the Senator (Ihara).


This stupid **** needs to be STOPPED!

Spread the word.

Write this Ihara character! ESPECIALLY if you are in HI.

__________________
www.KnifeRights.org
By Knife Owners. For Knife Owners.

CLB Designs



This was a post made by Potterma on the Spyderco Forum....Figured I'd pass on the info....For some reason the links are not working...you can find those links posted on the next thread posting with a little cut and paste magic from me....Doc
 
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Hawaii Bill Would Ban Folders
February 02, 2009
On Jan. 11, 2009, Hawaii Senator Les Ihara, Jr. introduced Bill 126 that would essentially ban folding knives throughout the state. In a letter to the senator, David Kowalski, of the American Knife & Tool Institute, laid out why the bill is bad for law-abiding knife owners.

Currently, Hawaiian law applies only to possession of switchblades, enforceable at the felony level. Bill 126 would expand the scope of knife regulation to include folders. However, the penalty would be a misdemeanor, not a felony.

What follows is Kowalski's letter.

Dear Senator Ihara:

The bill you introduced last week (HI S 126) would make de facto criminals of tens of thousands of your law-abiding citizens and potentially millions more who visit your beautiful state each year. It reads, in part…
A BILL FOR AN ACT RELATING TO DANGEROUS WEAPONS. BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF HAWAII:
SECTION 1. Chapter 134, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by adding a new section to part III to be appropriately designated and to read as follows: "Section 134- Pocket knives; sale prohibited; penalty. Any person who knowingly manufactures, sells, transfers, possesses, or transports a pocket knife in the State shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. As used in this section: "Pocket knife" means a knife with a blade that folds into the handle and which is suitable for carrying in the pocket."

On behalf of the American Knife & Tool Institute (AKTI), which represents the $1 Billion sporting knife industry in the United States, I would ask two things of you.

First, please call me at your earliest convenience to discuss this proposed legislation. I understand you have introduced the bill at the request of a constituent. It would be important to understand your goals and those of your constituent. While passing a knife law might seem a simple issue, there are grave consequences if it is vague, discriminatory, highly discretionary or simply so broad it is unenforceable.

AKTI has worked successfully with lawmakers in several states to make sure their knife laws support the goals of law enforcement, mesh with the needs of a diverse and strong economy, preserve the heritage of men and women who hunt, fish, and enjoy a broad variety of outdoor recreation, allow the construction industry to function at a high level, and preserve the rights of ordinary citizens who may have carried a knife their entire life to open letters and do some pruning in the rose garden.

Secondly, I would ask you to consider just a few issues that might give you some new insight into the issues that your bill raises.

Broadly, AKTI supports rational, equitable knife laws. Simple possession of a knife should not be punished. Knives do no harm unless used by someone who intends to harm. But we do support significant punishment of anyone who uses a knife in the commission of a crime.

Every five years, our U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service documents the impact of hunting and fishing in each of the
50 states. Released in the fall of 2007, its 2006 National Survey of Fishing, Hunting, and Wildlife-Associated
Recreation documents that, nationally, hunters and fishers spend more than $76 Billion annually (State statistics page attached).

Hawaii benefited from an estimated $163,363,000 spent by hunters and fishers in 2006. Since most hunters and fishers carry knives, we should not subject them to prosecution for knife possession or jeopardize that vital revenue.

Your marine and sport fishing industry is heavily dependent on knife usage. To forbid pocket knives on the docks and marinas of Hawaii would be an economic disaster and an enforcement nightmare.

Speaking further about economics, AKTI published its own report in 2007 entitled The AKTI State of the Sporting Knife Industry. Projections from the AKTI study peg annual sporting knife revenue at the manufacturer/importer level in Hawaii at $41,686,375.

Sales at Hawaii distribution and retail outlets would nearly double that number to some $82 million. That’s a
lot of jobs, taxes and economic vitality. When you run those dollars through all the local economies affected, the total economic impact of the sporting knife industry in Hawaii approaches $492 million annually.

The construction trades are heavily dependent on workmen using knives. They carry them from homes to job sites and back again daily … millions of times each day. I am not an expert on the Hawaiian construction trades, but ask yourself how many of these people could keep Hawaii building and growing without all their necessary tools.

Carpenters, electricians, plumbers, auto mechanics, farm workers, greenhouse staff, lawn care workers, tree trimmers, nursery and garden center staff all use knives daily. Scientific research is significant in Hawaii where pocket knives are commonly used to procure samples. Then there are thousands of gardeners throughout the islands, many of whom carry a knife on their person. To bust every grandmother in her rose garden for carrying and using a pocket knife would be a social disaster beyond measure.

I have been to Hawaii several times. My small folding knife goes into checked baggage when I fly but then I carry it when I go biking or whale watching. Multiply me by millions of visitors who hunt, fish, hike, rock climb, bike, kayak, canoe, deep-sea fish, snorkel or scuba. Do you really want to threaten all those law-abiding visitors with arrest for carrying a small pocket knife? Whether they come from the continental U.S. or the Pacific Rim countries, their tourist dollars are very discretionary dollars and they can take them elsewhere.

Knives are man’s oldest tools. We don’t ban automobiles or cameras or computers because they have become more complex in mechanism and materials, more sophisticated in design, more aesthetically rich, and focused on ever-narrower market niches. We don’t ban baseball bats or golf clubs because they can cause physical injury.

Ideally, AKTI’s position is that knife possession of any sort should be permitted. AKTI’s ideal law would read, "A knife is illegal only if it is carried with the intent to assault or harm another person." However, I recognize that Hawaii already bans switchblades (and I have attached your current knife statute).

AKTI and AKTI members urge you to withdraw your bill since, as it is written, it would be a broad-brush attack on millions of law-abiding Hawaiian citizens and visitors. Its economic impact on several vital industries would be disastrous, especially given our current economic climate.
 
THE SENATE
TWENTY-FIFTH LEGISLATURE, 2009
STATE OF HAWAII
JAN 23 l009
S.B. NO. '_f,
A BILL FOR AN ACT
RELATING TO DANGEROUS WEAPONS.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF HAWAII:
SECTION 1. Chapter 134, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is
2 amended by adding a new section to part III to be appropriately
3 designated and to read as follows:
4 n§134-Pocket knives; sale prohibited; penalty. Any
5 person who knowingly manufactures, sells, transfers, possesses,
6 or transports a pocket knife in the State shall be guilty of a
7 misdemeanor.
8 As used in this section:
9 "Pocket knife" means a knife with a blade that folds into
10 the handle and which is sui table for carrying in the pocket."
11 SECTION 2. Upon the effective date of this Act, no person
12 shall import or manufacture pocket knives into the State for the
13 purpose of selling or distributing pocket knives.
14 SECTION 3. New statutory material is underscored.
15 SECTION 4. This Act shall take effect on January 1, 2010.
16
INTRODUCED BY:
2009-0182 SB SMA. doc
1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111I

S.B. N0./~
Report Title:
Dangerous Weapons; Pocket Knives; Sale
Description:
Prohibits sale of pocket knives. Defines pocket knife.

2009-0182 SB SMA. doc

11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

 
That'll go over like a lead balloon. All the park rangers and other people responsible for managing the island's natural areas will go berserk, and pocket knives are necessary in many lines of work.
 
Hi, in 1989 three friends of mine drove over a cliff in a Ford Pinto. As the car started to catch fire the driver saw that the two passengers were unconcious. He couldn't undo the seatbelt buckles so he used his pocketknife (thank God we're rednecks) to cut them free. The car burned into nothing but a bare frame. I have carried one ever since, it is a fixture on my body. I don't consider it a weapon, it is a tool and an emergency device. I would give up my guns before I gave up my knife. Fortunately around my parts it is very normal to carry one.
 
The economy is in shambles, crime is up, and it is all because of folding knives?

The "oxygen wasters" walk among us
and can vote for knuckeheads, that cant hold a real job, and propose these kind of laws.
Who among us here holds office? Would you consider running for office?
I just might, State legislature is the best part time job I know of.
World would be a better place if we ran it!
Lets get busy people.
 
This waste of law passed?

I suggest we ban poly tics and law makers post haste! Obivously law makes who can't do anything but talk and push paper, who would do deadly harm to themselves if they used a knife to sharpen a penicl, can't be trusted to make and pass law.

So if you are in HAWAII , and are a carpenter wood worker, leather worker and any other sort of trades man, and want to sharpen a pencil you must wander the beach and find a shark tooth huh?

I bet the poly tics who pass this law are ALL in violation of this law as well, I bet everyone of them is. This law make the typical Swiss Army knife a lethal weapon!
I can't wait to see this foolish law enforced. :neener:
 
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Something got lost in the move!

I want the links please!

I am not even sure where this post is, although I can find it.
 
Carl Levitian wrote:

Thanks to the higher profile of pocket clips, aggresive blade shapes, and nitwits flicking them open with a flurish when they have to open a package that could have been opened with a sak classic, the anit's are now very aware of knives.
Click to expand...

This behavior angers me greatly! *anger*

While I understand one is not supposed to wish bad on another, I do.
I am not as young as I used to be, and the last few years I have become more cold and hard.

Around here I am known for being "traditional and practical" , software not hardware, and correct basic fundamentals.

While not as old as some members, I have lived long enough to see changes in society.
History is a wonderful teacher, if one pays attention.
Mistakes can be avoided if one learns from the history of others.

When the UK banned knives, it became evident very quickly, this affected such things as food preparation.

Politicians were so busy thinking about votes, careers, and other things, it never dawned on them, banning knives would affect food preparation.
So immediately, the new law to save all, from knife crime had to be amended.

British Blades Forum is where I found a nice group of folks, to educate myself as to how the UK got into the mess they did. I wanted to know the Signals.

I wanted to know the "definitions" and "interpretations" and other information as I wanted to know my enemy.

While the tack-tickle knife flickers acting like Bruce Lee told my freinds, members of this forum to "move to the USA, besides wanting to take a hickory axe handle to the heads and bodies of these ijits, I was reading up and arming myself with knowledge.

The same darn things that happened to the UK happened to USA, and still is.

Now where in the heck are the knife flickers with tack-tickle knifes going to move to?
Hey, they said move to the UK, well they can move away, as I do not like some folks breathing my air!

Listen up Hawaii, and other USA legislators, pay attention, as I am a cold, hard hearted bastid.

Ban the knives, and when the Doctor does not have SAK classic to do an emergency trach on you, or your kid, and you or your kids dies.
Tough cookies, I do not care, and I do not want to hear about it.


Ban the knives, and when you or your kid find yourself trapped in rubble, as that lady was in the OKC bombing, you or your kid can flat die in that rubble.

It was a Case Peanut, personally owned by a Ortho Doc/Surgeon, that amputated the leg of that lady in the OKC rubble and it saved her life.

His Ortho tools could NOT be used in the confines of that rubble.
Look. It. UP.

If your kid gets a shoelace in a escalator and is being pulled into, where injury, will occur, including amputation, I hope it happens.

All it takes is a pocket knife to cut the shoelace to stop the threat.
Still according to the mindset of Control & Tyranny, that child is supposed to submit toes, partial foot, physical pain, mental pain and not be allowed to be child, and play as a child, and grow up whole.

You can burn in a plane that crash landed safely because your pilot was denied having the pocket knife attached to seat belt, and the one around his neck, as he /she has done for decades.

First Responders can wait for you to wake up, if you can, to extract you from a vehicle.
As without a pocket knife, being used for a Rescue Tool , they are handicapped.

I hope your dawg, hops over the side of your truck while you are in Wal-Mart and hangs themselves...because nobody is allowed to have a pocket knife to cut that leash.


You teach folks how to treat you , and I am just treating as taught.

This goes to tack-tickle kniife flickers as well.

When the law is passed and one cannot have any knives, look in the mirror, and thank the person looking at you.


*anger*
 
and nitwits flicking them open with a flurish when they have to open a package that could have been opened with a sak classic
Click to expand...

This goes to tack-tickle kniife flickers as well.
Click to expand...

Some believe that as long as the knife they are using is legal what others think is a non-issue.

They are right,of course, up to a point.

I have gone from tactical folders,to slip joints,and now smallish fixed blades. Fixed blades really scare most of the general public, even 3" blade black coated ones with black plastic sheaths. Go figure :confused:

When out in general society I use my people friendly SAK for cutting chores.
The extra time it takes to dig it out of my pockets,open with both hands,then cut,is nothing to me.

If I know someone is gonna freak out over me pulling out my BK11 I won't, even though it is perfectly legal for me to do so.

I'd rather be seen as the guy with the MacGyver (sp) knife than the crazed pshyco with the deadly weapon.

It really should not matter (its legal),but sometimes it does.
 
"It really should not matter (its legal),but sometimes it does. "

No, it shouldn't matter all.

But first impressions are what matter. That is why we where a coat and tie to job interviews. Why we look a certain way when making contact with a client.

Not too long ago, I was at a food court at a local mall. The better half had to do some shopping, and for my patience she bought me lunch. A good deal on my part. A few tables over were a couple of young 20 something guys. Rather poor exuses of modern young men. Baggy black cargo pants, black t-shirts with some rock band logo, and black scuffed up looking leather jackets. They were having fun cutting up thier food with large tactical mall ninja knives that they had flicked out with obnoxious "look at me" attitudes. A couple of older ladies were eyeing them with wary attention. Now what do you think those ladies will do when someone has a petition to sign to bring up an anti-knife law before the local government? They'll recall the two young jerks acting what they thought was macho when it was just plain stupid, and they'll grab that pen and put their Jonh Hancock on that paper saying "you're right, they ought to be against the law!"

Unfortunalty, I have seen both knife and gun nuts being their own worst enemy. I'm sorry, but maybe anyone who thinks it's okay to act like John Rambo in public is a moron who makes it that much harder for the rest of us. Flicking a Spyderco military out in a mall food court, or weaving through traffic driving like a drunken kamikazi in a Dodge Ram pickup with a big "Have you hugged your AR today?" sticker on the back window of the camper shell with a picture of an AR15, does more harm than anything to our cause.

Like sm, I feel great anger toward these people. The lame brain who is pushing the knife ban bill in Hawaii is being pushed by a constiuent. Probably somebody who has been offended by some idiot, so now he's striking back by trying to ban the offending item. He'll show them by God!

They're gonna screw it up for the rest of us.

Heck, look what happened when too many kids imitated James Dean. They outlawed switchblades.

When life imitates art, it's bad for life.
 
I carry large tacticool knives. I also make sure people see me using them. I use it as a learning tool. I want them to know that these things aren't going to jump out and kill them. I want to desensitize them to being afraid of big knives. It usually starts the same, they usually make a Crocodile Dundee joke, but they still use it to open the box, trim the string etc. Next thing you know they are asking me what I think of one or another. I'm honest but supporting. For awhile I was the only guy in my office with a knife, now more and more guys have one clipped to their pockets. Just like firearms, teach one convert one.
 
What is it with politicians? It seems like the farther west you go, the dumber they get.
 
This would ban Vics. Amazing what our legislators actually believe are for the benefit of the people. And some of you don't think Obama and the Democrats will try to enact gun control legislation??? We the People...
 
It's like I tell my kids. Knives are tools, not weapons. I think it's terrible that my son would get in big trouble if he accidentally left his pocket knife in a coat pocket and got caught with it at school. What's the world coming to? When I was in school, I had at least one class that required a pocket knife.
 
Ideally, AKTI’s position is that knife possession of any sort should be permitted. AKTI’s ideal law would read, "A knife is illegal only if it is carried with the intent to assault or harm another person." However, I recognize that Hawaii already bans switchblades (and I have attached your current knife statute).
Click to expand...

If you really want this to be put in instead of the proposed bill, you need to specifically add a self defense clause.

I carry everything thing I own with the intent of using it to disable an attacker or a maniac if necessary.

This kind of BS needs to stop.

I don't need somebody to tell me I'm allowed to carry a basic tool of any kind.

Just like I don't need anybody to tell me I have the right to kill an attacker in my own home (or anywhere else).

I was born with these rights as a human being.

I'm getting pretty hacked off with politicians these days.
 
In Virginia, any knife that can be concealed, and used as a weapon, is ALREADY de-facto banned. If a person actually uses the pocket knife (or any concealed knife) as a weapon, the burden shifts to the accused to prove that the knife is NOT a weapon. (good luck!)

One exception: A "schoolboy's knife."
Do not ask me what is a schoolboy's knife. It is an expellable offense in every school in Virginia to even bring a butter knife for spreading cheese on a bagel.

See Ohin vs. Commonwealth
http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavwp/2708041.pdf

"A “weapon of like kind” includes a knife that, while not possessing the exact physical
properties of the enumerated knives, has the characteristics of a fighting knife just the same.
A butterfly knife, for example, is a locking pocketknife that folds into a two-part hinged
handle. Its unusual handle does not resemble any of the knives listed in the statute. But its
utility as a fighting weapon makes it a “like kind” weapon under Code § 18.2-308(A)(v).
Delcid, 32 Va. App. at 18, 526 S.E.2d at 275. In particular, its “fixed blade, sharp point, and
single-sharpened edge afford unquestionable utility as a stabbing weapon, useful in the same
manner as a dagger, stiletto, or dirk.” Id."

...and don't even get me started on the issue of he Court characterizing a butterfly knife as having a "fixed blade."
 
KevinAbbeyTech , You don't have the Right to Kill anyone ever!

Maybe you have the Right to stop someone though, from harming you and yours.
 
I just this morning saw on another forum, that Germany of all places, has made the carrying of locking knives illeagal. I had been unaware of that. Germany of all places, land of nice Boker automatics with stag handles. Beautiful Puma lockblades. This blows my mind.
 
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