I tried pointing instead of aiming

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Frostbite

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Many here suggest that a shotgun should always be pointed instead of aimed. I, for one, and I am definitely not the only one to have done so, have defended the opposite idea with regards to the usage of slugs in such firearms.

I am first and foremost a rifleman. The shotgun is still proportionally very new to me when compared to rifles. It is a new friend I am still getting to know better. I so strongly believed a shotgun shooting slugs should be aimed that I even bought a scope and all the necessary equipment to mount it on my shotgun. And I mounted it, and shot it from a bench, and I was satisfied from its accuracy.

I might point out again that the shotgun is seen by me as a possible inexpensive and versatile backup solution for my primary rifle when hunting deer, hence the interest of having it shoot slugs. It is not seen as a replacement for a rifle or as a rifle.

I would agree that a shotgun's first purpose is to shoot shot, not slugs, and that when used for that, a bead, or two, or a tritium or fibre optic one is all one needs. I chose to simply keep the basic bead that came with it when using it to shoot shot.

Still, I questioned my judgment and understanding when I read some of the comments written on this very board by knowledgeable and respectable folks regarding the aiming versus pointing question when using slugs out of a shotgun.

I will precise that my use for slugs should mostly be within 50 (85-90% of my harvested deer to date were shot within 40 yards) to maybe some day 75 yards and that I need to shoot quickly, mostly hunting deer during runs or stalking. As little tree stand as possible for me, thank you. It is just too cold, I loose the feeling in my feet and just plain do not like it.

With all that in mind, and remembering dearly my last deer of this fall, properly taken with my muzzleloader, on the run, at close range, using fibre optic sights and aiming, I kept asking myself why in the world would I simply point and risk missing or worst, injuring and not finding a deer?

I had the blues this morning, and I think one of the best things I can do when that happens is jump in my vehicle with a gun and go to the shooting range. The weather was warm, around zero Celsius, although a little snowy, and not too windy, allowing me to neglect the use of gloves for my shooting, which I always prefer this way. Looking at the ammo available at home, I couldn't help but to notice I had a fair amount of slugs sitting on the shelf. I had ordered a few of those when I bought the scope, not suspecting how hard they would kick at the bench.

I remembered reading somewhere that the felt recoil is much more tolerable when shooting standing compared to sitting at the bench and said to myself: "Well, there should be less people today at the range than earlier this fall during crazy hunter season, so maybe the line official will allow me to shoot standing, what a lovely way to shoot a bunch of slugs if at all possible."

I needed to feel alive a little more than usual this morning and shooting slugs usually helps me to achieve that feeling.

So, to the range I went. With a few slugs, and this idea that I should at least try a little harder to shoot them without the scope and without trying to aim so much and rather just listen to the more experienced and brilliant ones over here who keep saying a shotgun is meant to be pointed. All the recent reading about fit and such also pointed me towards that more classical direction, in a way. I had not understood before (and most likely do no understand fully now) the major differences between rifle and shotgun stocks and the great importance of the fit with regards to the gun shooting where the shooter is looking.

I stopped at the grocery to buy a hundred desert paper plates (6 inches) and a case of brown soft drinks in red cans.

The therapy worked wonders. I felt a lot better when I came back home after shooting fifty-four slugs. Shooting the pop cans did not prove half as entertaining as I had expected it would, though. They just blew up and I was not able to appreciate it because it happened too fast for me to see it. Lots of fun with the plates. The thick snow cover allowed me to place them at various distances and angles, which made it more fun when came the time to shoot them.

While having fun and practicing my shooting, I learned I had spent money on a scope, mount and rings for no good reason. I will not use that shotgun to shoot deer at a hundred yards anyway. Shooting pop cans at thirty yards and six inches paper plates at fifty means I could kill a deer at forty any day of the week. Lesson learned.

On a technical note, for those of you who like getting technical about stuff, I used Winchester 1 oz slugs at 1600 fps from a smooth bore cylinder 18.0 inches chrome lined barrel and I strove to keep both eyes opened, a first for me.

And I liked it!
 
Buy a case or two of blue rock, a hand thrower, and some trap loads.

Then enlist a friend to throw them for you.

Before you get done busting aerial targets, you will either miss all of them 'aiming' at them.

Or, fully understand 'pointing' a shotgun that fits you at a fast moving flying target and bust most all of them.

rc
 
all the pointers know where the end of the barrel is when shooting clays, how in the hell do you floot the bird just over the end of the barrel or bead if you don,t for riseing bird? and a fast left or right does not need the elevation a rising bird does. shoot the best way that lets you hit the birds and you scores will tell you the one that is best for you. if you line up the twin beads on a trap gun and lock the gun in you have in effect aimed the shotgun with out looking at them again, if you move the shotgun or you head and shoot with out locking back in you will miss 90% of the time, by knowing where the muzzle is you can correct most of the times. i am no expert,but have shot many 25-25,s-50-50,s and a few 74-75,s and the best at a 100 was 97-100 and i,m 71 and only shoot 4000-5000 a year and that is not very many for a clays games shooter. i watched a man reduce his son to near tears by telling him to just point and shoot, he broke 3-4 straight aways. i never saw the young man at our club after that.eastbank
 
slugs

The first time that I tried Trap....16 yard ATA Trap....I hit precisely six birds.
One of the fellows that I was with took me aside and, knowing my background as a pistol and rifle shooter, said "You are shooting like you have a rifle." Then he explained about pointing and shooting a shotgun. The next round, I hit sixteen. It was not long after that that I had my first 25 straight.
Pointing a shotgun.... looking at the bird and not the sight... is why gun fit is so important. A properly fitted gun will shoot where you are looking.
The idea applies to shooting things that fly.
Now....I don't know anyone who applies the "shotguns should be pointed, not aimed" idea to shooting slugs. Never heard that one before. Shooting slugs, regardless of what type of gun, is like shooting a rifle..... that is why dedicated slug guns have both front and rear sights.
Pete
PS: Eastbank: "Not an expert"??? You sell yourself short. If you make habit of straights, 25s and 50s.....you are an expert. That is way better than most guys ever learn to shoot.
Kudos.
P
 
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Pointing a shotgun.... looking at the bird and not the sight... is why gun fit is so important. A properly fitted gun will shoot where you are looking.
^^^
THAT is the key. If the shotgun doesn't fit you, you have no choice but to aim. If the shotgun does fit, the gun, your head, your arms, and, to some extent, upper body all move as a single unit with your head down on the stock. The only parts that don't move as a unit are your eyes. They track the target. You shouldn't even notice if the two beads form a nice figure-8 because they should be out of focus to you and just kind of floating there in your peripheral vision along with the rest of the barrel.

Practice is what gives you the muscle memory to know how far your eyes are trailing the movement of your head to get to the proper break point. If the gun fits, all lead (forward allowance) becomes, whether it's swing through, sustained lead, or pull-away, is the difference between where your head is and where your eyes are looking. But that's only if the gun fits. If you have to think about where the end of the barrel is on every shot, you'll miss often.

But it all depends on fit and using/controlling eye dominance. (controlling, as in obscuring the real dominant eye slightly to force the non-dominant eye to take over while shooting) Proper fit also depends on a consistently repeatable gun mount, which is helped immensely by proper fit.

We have been shooting a lot of trap lately and after I got my gun adjusted so the pattern was centered where I was looking, I my scores went up significantly. The adjustment involved some 1/8" craft foam and vet wrap from one of the local farm and ranch supply stores, but it took me from shooting 13-15 to consistently shooting 22+ almost instantly. I did a fitting session for my son on his 500 and he went from hitting almost none of them to about 50% the first (and only) round he shot afterwards.

Matt
 
I shoot slugs (inside 50 yards) the same way as shot, firing right after the mount is complete with eyes focused on the target. Repeating stance, mount and target view is what builds muscle memory and allows practice on clays to transfer over to SD and hunting. This is what I consider "pointing" a shotgun.
 
My buckshot/slug barrel has sights, and I use them to effect; in my mind, using that barrel makes my M1100 a rifle. I'm directing a slug or a fairly compact pattern of large shot at stationary or fairly slow-moving targets, and appreciate rifle sights for that sort of work.

When I'm using the same gun with any of my smoothbore barrels, it's a shotgun again and used for engaging moving targets, usually fast-moving and airborne. At those times, I can't even tell you where the bead is in relation to the target. If I see the bead, I miss the bird.

You're on the right track, Frostbite. Just bear in mind that different projectiles are what determines how the modern hunting shotgun is used, and what sighting system is best for a given purpose. Even a plain bead can put a slug exactly where you want it to go, but you WILL have to use the bead in that case. A gun that fits is a big help, too. And.......you'll burn a lot of powder getting to be a good field shot, and burn a lot more STAYING good. Have fun!
 
I've always treated shooting slugs at ground-based targets as a totally different ballgame than shooting shot at flying targets.

In fact, I "aim" at all ground-based targets regardless of what type of load is in my gun.

I'll edit to specify that I take my time to aim at stationary, or more or less stationary targets with a shotgun. Though, if I know I'll only be shooting at unaware small game, I'll opt for a .22 (no shot in the meat).
 
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That works for many shooting clay rabbit targets.

One easy way to check your eyes in relation to the gun is to find a spot at eye level or so. Focus on it, close your eyes, mount your gun ( unloaded of course), open your eyes. If all is aligned properly, your eyes should see no rib and the barrels and eyes are pointing right at your spot.
If you're seeing rib, then your stock needs adjustment as you'll be shooting high.
 
Many, many more early American homes had a smoothbore fowling piece over the fireplace than a more expensive rifle. And many a deer was brought home by hunters using those fowling pieces loaded with a single ball - and no sights or very rudimentary sights.


That wasn't usually by choice tho, nor was it very efficient. It had to do with using what you had. I'd bet most of those that used those fowling pieces for deer would have much rather had a rifled long-gun with good sights, but could only afford one gun.

As others have said, at flying birds/clay targets one needs to point and shoot with a properly fitting gun. But if using slugs for deer or when shooting for a turkeys head with a scattergun, it still works better to aim.
 
As you might gather from the other posts, "pointing not aiming" is usually referring to shot and moving targets not necessarily single projectiles. Also mentioned is how a particular gun fits you. That is important in moving objects and can figure in shooting slugs as well. I had one shotgun that just naturally threw a slug where I was looking another one would hit my target but I had to work at it and consciously aim it to get it done. Shotguns are individuals when it comes to liking a particular slug over others as well. That makes the "research" fun, go to the range and try 'em all! Glad your "therapy" worked for you on that day but just curious, after FIFTY-FOUR slugs in one session how was your shoulder the next day? lol
 
My Hd shotgun has a vent rib. I practice looking down the vent rib which is a whole lot bigger and easier to see than the sight. For shooting a burglar at 10 feet you don`t need much.

I think it was Jeff Cooper who suggested for night work you tie a white hankerchief on the front of the barrel.
 
There is a definite science in how to point and shoot. It requires that you mount the gun exactly the same way each time, and it is essential that the gun be pointing where you are looking. If you cannot find the correct mount you may need your gun fitted or help of a trainer that knows how to help you. NRA has a shotgun course that is good. Then it requires practice. There are many parts you need to know to teach it, but a person with good eyesight , normal eye dominance, and decent coordination can pick it up, it has to do with natural bodily reflexes that you likely don't know you have. I can shoot a rifle without sights and shoot from the hip although it takes practice to keep it up and I haven't for awhile.
 
As you might gather from the other posts, "pointing not aiming" is usually referring to shot and moving targets not necessarily single projectiles. Also mentioned is how a particular gun fits you. That is important in moving objects and can figure in shooting slugs as well. I had one shotgun that just naturally threw a slug where I was looking another one would hit my target but I had to work at it and consciously aim it to get it done. Shotguns are individuals when it comes to liking a particular slug over others as well. That makes the "research" fun, go to the range and try 'em all! Glad your "therapy" worked for you on that day but just curious, after FIFTY-FOUR slugs in one session how was your shoulder the next day? lol
My shoulder was and is fine, thanks. I also shot a box of 00 buckshot and 1 round of some 3" birdshot the line official offered me because he was curious about its kick, having been told it was plain horrible. I told him it kicked a little more than the slugs, but that it was not the described horror, nothing to write home about. Shooting in the standing position really helped. We are not allowed to do so very often at that range, where shooting from the bench is usually mandatory. Some would describe me as big boned. It was definitely better than from the bench!
 
Then it requires practice. There are many parts you need to know to teach it, but a person with good eyesight , normal eye dominance, and decent coordination can pick it up, it has to do with natural bodily reflexes that you likely don't know you have.

+1

Years ago I took a ODNR sponsored weekend class that taught a modified Churchill method. They emphasized trusting your "onboard computer" (natural reflexes).

I learned a lot in that weekend class and it changed my view of shotguning for life, those in the class who struggled were the established Trap and Skeet guys because they weren't willing to abandon what they knew to be a success in their games, so it's really about embracing a system that transfers well IMHO.
 
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Buy a case or two of blue rock, a hand thrower, and some trap loads.

Then enlist a friend to throw them for you.

Before you get done busting aerial targets, you will either miss all of them 'aiming' at them.

Or, fully understand 'pointing' a shotgun that fits you at a fast moving flying target and bust most all of them.

rc
I did something like that a few times, I can assure you I need more practice! Round count is approximately 400 now for the flying targets. I used #7.5 birdshot to practice that. It was the least expensive I could find. I used both my 18" (poorest) and 28" barrels. Lots of fun, it will happen again. I will concentrate on the longer barrel for clays.
 
You may want to practice shooting paper plates or cans on the ground with an air rifle without sights at about 20 feet. That is one step in my training program.
 
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