i would like to see a s&w 38 super
- Thread starter mushu
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halfmoonclip
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Yeah, there's a puzzlement. In this day of hot rounds, nothing new in this for some time.
Moon
Moon
earlthegoat2
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I’m Sure it’s only a matter of time before one of them “reinvents” the 38 Super for “modern bullets” and audiences…..and then proceeds to muck it up somehow but on purpose.
Howland937
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You mean like loading factory ammo at 9mm velocities?
Zaydok Allen
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Dave DeLaurant
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RIA, purchased recently:
P5 Guy
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38 Super in a model 60 S&W with 5 round moon clips?
Dave DeLaurant
Member
Not entirely necessary with the .38 Super thanks to the semi-rim, but the moon clips are a great idea for fast loading and unloading.
The basic idea of revolver moonclips goes back further than S&W's version: the Webley-Fosbery automatic revolver was made in an 8-shot .38 ACP (the .38 Super before it became super) version that used an interesting spiral moon clip. Hardly a CCW size, but that was a clever plot point in Dashiell Hammet's novel The Maltese Falcon , i.e. no woman would ever carry one.
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bannockburn
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mushu
I doubt that any mainstream manufacturer is going to come out with a "new" .38 Super (be it a semi-auto or revolver), any time soon. Not enough of a market for it and factory ammo is not widely available (like 9mm. is), and is relatively expensive when you do find it. Last time I looked only Dan Wesson, RIA, and Colt had any 1911s listed for the .38 Super but that was some time back. So not a lot of demand going on there for pistols chambered for the cartridge.
Having said that I have been a fan of .38 Super for many years now, though I went without one for quite awhile. That is until I found a new Colt Lightweight Commander at a local gun show and bought it. Added a Storm Lake 9mm. barrel assembly and magazines to make the gun a convertible so I could use cheaper ammo to practice with.
I doubt that any mainstream manufacturer is going to come out with a "new" .38 Super (be it a semi-auto or revolver), any time soon. Not enough of a market for it and factory ammo is not widely available (like 9mm. is), and is relatively expensive when you do find it. Last time I looked only Dan Wesson, RIA, and Colt had any 1911s listed for the .38 Super but that was some time back. So not a lot of demand going on there for pistols chambered for the cartridge.
Having said that I have been a fan of .38 Super for many years now, though I went without one for quite awhile. That is until I found a new Colt Lightweight Commander at a local gun show and bought it. Added a Storm Lake 9mm. barrel assembly and magazines to make the gun a convertible so I could use cheaper ammo to practice with.
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The new 30 super carry is sweeping the market and will make all other calibers obsolete!
No need for anything else.
https://gunmagwarehouse.com/blog/welcome-30-super-carry-a-new-caliber-for-2022/
No need for anything else.
https://gunmagwarehouse.com/blog/welcome-30-super-carry-a-new-caliber-for-2022/
Rock Island Armory still makes new 1911's in 38 Super. Though they are hard to find at times. A couple of years ago, I ended up buying a RIA 9mm 1911 and later purchased a 38 Super barrel from RIA so I can shoot either caliber in the same pistol.
I started out years ago reloading 9mm Largo for my Star Super A using Starline brass. And the only difference between Starline 9mm Largo brass and Starline 38 Super Comp (rimless) is the caliber stamped on the case. All dimensions are identical when it comes to Starline's 9mm Largo and 38 Super Comp brass.
I started out years ago reloading 9mm Largo for my Star Super A using Starline brass. And the only difference between Starline 9mm Largo brass and Starline 38 Super Comp (rimless) is the caliber stamped on the case. All dimensions are identical when it comes to Starline's 9mm Largo and 38 Super Comp brass.
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Dave DeLaurant
Member
Along with RIA and Colt, Les Baer still catalogs at least one model in .38 Super. I'm surprised Ed Brown has dropped if from their website, but he would probably still make them to custom order. I've never actually seen one, but the Browning BDA version of the SIG P220 was available for a time in .38 Super. I'd like to shoot one of those someday and see how it compares to my friend's 220 in .45 ACP.
EAA offered a tricked-out competition version of the Tangfoglio Witness line in .38 Super:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/eaa...e-match-38-super-pistol-stainless-600655.html
Lots of things 38 Super seem to be out of stock right now, which probably means that they have been discontinued.
I mostly shoot handloads using .38 ACP/Super brass in my Astra 400s and Star Super A. I've also got a bag of early Starline production 9x23 Largo brass from the 90s, but that particular batch proved a bit brittle and prone to case splits.
EAA offered a tricked-out competition version of the Tangfoglio Witness line in .38 Super:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/eaa...e-match-38-super-pistol-stainless-600655.html
Lots of things 38 Super seem to be out of stock right now, which probably means that they have been discontinued.
I mostly shoot handloads using .38 ACP/Super brass in my Astra 400s and Star Super A. I've also got a bag of early Starline production 9x23 Largo brass from the 90s, but that particular batch proved a bit brittle and prone to case splits.
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I have found that with some of the Spanish 9mm Largo pistols, the breech face is not big enough to fit the rim of 38 ACP/Super brass. While I have not had any brittle 9mm Largo brass from Starline, I have had some that were on the thin side, probably 10-15 cases per 500.
For those that have 9mm Largo pistols, if the 38 ACP/Super case rims are too big to fit, then use the 38 Super Comp brass. Again the Starline 9mm Largo and Starline 38 Super Comp brass are the exact same dimensions.
Dave DeLaurant
Member
On some Spanish pistolas, 9x23 Largo and .38 ACP interchangeability was made clear by marking the barrel over the chamber "9 m/m & 38" -- here's how both of my M400s are marked:
As a straight blowback pistol, you can download 9x23 or .38 ACP ammo quite a bit before M400 function is impaired, but never load hotter than Spanish military specs. In fact, standard Spanish ball ammo can be a little uncomfortable to shoot through these babys. Definitely not a .38 Super, despite what's headstamped on some of my brass.
Even the 9mm Largo loaded for the Destroyer Carbines was too hot for most pistols.
I use the Starline 9mm Largo and 38 Super Comp brass interchangeably in my Star Super A and my 38 Super 1911. And I load them to safe levels for the Star.
To keep on topic.
Yes it would be nice to see more pistols chambered in 38 Super. I do enjoy my Star Super A and my 38 1911.
I use the Starline 9mm Largo and 38 Super Comp brass interchangeably in my Star Super A and my 38 Super 1911. And I load them to safe levels for the Star.
To keep on topic.
Yes it would be nice to see more pistols chambered in 38 Super. I do enjoy my Star Super A and my 38 1911.
MachIVshooter
Member
.38 super needs a .45 frame size, and it seems these days people who are OK with the bigger frame but want more capacity prefer 10mm, which is also a big jump in power over .38 super or .45 ACP.
It's a neat round, but pretty much relegated to competitive shooting anymore.
It's a neat round, but pretty much relegated to competitive shooting anymore.
wally
Member
.357SIG in a compact frame .40 would be basically the same as a .38Super except you'd lose two rounds capacity in exchange for the smaller grip. You can re-barrel most any .40 pistol to .357SIG if you think the 125 gr bullet at about 1200 ft/s is really something that special.
Zaydok Allen
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Just throwing this out there.
Rimmed 38 Super combined with rimless super comp brass creates an issue with extractors. I had to change mine out to make super comp brass work, and did so as the reports were that rimless brass was more reliable, and the gun is very reliable now. I imagine any manufacturing company sees the issue with this and is reluctant as people will shoot the wrong brass then complain.
From a 5" barrel, you can push a 124 grain bullet to 1400fps in a hot N105 load. (I did it, and matched the results of the published load.) It's a super fun cartridge, but honestly speaking, it's a reloaders cartridge now and seeing SD guns chambered in it is pretty much a no go.
I think it has a lot going for it.
Rimmed 38 Super combined with rimless super comp brass creates an issue with extractors. I had to change mine out to make super comp brass work, and did so as the reports were that rimless brass was more reliable, and the gun is very reliable now. I imagine any manufacturing company sees the issue with this and is reluctant as people will shoot the wrong brass then complain.
From a 5" barrel, you can push a 124 grain bullet to 1400fps in a hot N105 load. (I did it, and matched the results of the published load.) It's a super fun cartridge, but honestly speaking, it's a reloaders cartridge now and seeing SD guns chambered in it is pretty much a no go.
I think it has a lot going for it.
With the 1911, you almost need to choose between the standard rimmed 38 ACP/Super brass or the rimless 38 Super Comp brass since there is enough of a difference in rim diameter between the two. I have decided to stick with Starline 38 Super Comp/9mm Largo brass since I also swap barrels on my 1911 to shoot 9x19.
The Starline 38 Super Comp and 9mm Largo rim diameter is 0.380" to 0.384" and all of my 9mm brass I measured is 0.386" to 0.389". Rimmed 38 ACP and 38 Super brass are around 0.400". So it is easier for me to tune my extractor for 38 Super Comp and 9x19.
Like Bannock, I share a fondness for the .38 Super and have used it in a Colt Combat Commander and more recently, a Ruger CMD .45.
Here's the Ruger CMD, with a Series 70 Colt slide, bushing, and bbl. in .38 Super. Story is: back in the late 80's, I saw an add in the old Shotgun News for Colt Commander uppers in 9mm & .38 Super. I had a Colt Combat Commander at the time; bought both, and after changing out the ejector, I had a 3 caliber Commander. As I recall the Colt uppers were ~$100 or so a piece.
Since then, I've found the Colt uppers also fit my Ruger .45 CMD. Just another way of getting a Super if you've got access to a slide/bbl. assembly. BTW, .38 Super mags will feed 9mm just fine, and the barrels are also interchangeable as well, i.e. either slide will work with either bbl. Accuracy with the Super bbl. is as good as or better than the original .45 ACP. Another surprise for me was that 9mm and .38 Super loads shoot to the same point of impact with similar weight bullets, i.e. no sight change necessary.
As to the brass questions...I've always used the original semi-rimmed .38 Super brass...and had no feeding nor extraction issues with it in either the Super Slide nor in the 9mm slide (with the Super bbl.) Both feed and extract with no problem but occasionally the slide will not lock back after firing the last round. In my use, I prefer the Super over the 9mm for accuracy in this particular gun, and for the simple fact that Super brass is easier to find in the short grass on my home range...especially the nickeled ones.
Best regards, Rod
Here's the Ruger CMD, with a Series 70 Colt slide, bushing, and bbl. in .38 Super. Story is: back in the late 80's, I saw an add in the old Shotgun News for Colt Commander uppers in 9mm & .38 Super. I had a Colt Combat Commander at the time; bought both, and after changing out the ejector, I had a 3 caliber Commander. As I recall the Colt uppers were ~$100 or so a piece.
Since then, I've found the Colt uppers also fit my Ruger .45 CMD. Just another way of getting a Super if you've got access to a slide/bbl. assembly. BTW, .38 Super mags will feed 9mm just fine, and the barrels are also interchangeable as well, i.e. either slide will work with either bbl. Accuracy with the Super bbl. is as good as or better than the original .45 ACP. Another surprise for me was that 9mm and .38 Super loads shoot to the same point of impact with similar weight bullets, i.e. no sight change necessary.
As to the brass questions...I've always used the original semi-rimmed .38 Super brass...and had no feeding nor extraction issues with it in either the Super Slide nor in the 9mm slide (with the Super bbl.) Both feed and extract with no problem but occasionally the slide will not lock back after firing the last round. In my use, I prefer the Super over the 9mm for accuracy in this particular gun, and for the simple fact that Super brass is easier to find in the short grass on my home range...especially the nickeled ones.
Best regards, Rod
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Needing to choose between rimmed and rimless cases and the need to tune the extractor for one or the other in not always required. I tuned the extractor in my RIA slide since there was a bit of difference between the 38 Super Comp/9mm Largo/9x19 compared to the rimmed 38 Super brass.
Howland937
Member
I've shot 9mm and 38 Super out of my SIG Match Elite that left the factory as a 9mm. Barrel and recoil spring is the only difference since 9mm feeds perfectly from my CMC 38 Super mags. I haven't touched the extractor because function is great and I don't wanna screw it up, but it's probably a little tight on the conventional 38S brass.
My favorite load is a case full of VV N105 compressed by a 124gr Nosler Sporting Handgun. It's running a touch over 1400 and has proven to be pretty lethal. On bowling pins.
I remember when you were working that out. Glad to hear you got it.
My favorite load is a case full of VV N105 compressed by a 124gr Nosler Sporting Handgun. It's running a touch over 1400 and has proven to be pretty lethal. On bowling pins.
