Idpa outlaw match improvements needed

Big-bore-bob

Big-bore-bob

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Joined
May 31, 2023
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Undisclosed location: Rocky Mountains Montana
Hi all, I just recently joined an outlaw idpa league (indoor), ive shot 3 regular matches and have shot two bug matches. My most recent match I shot a brand new sig p938 legion. I shot 6th out of 34 shooters but I feel like my skills are still a bit lacking. Mabye this is a stupid noob question but what do you all find is the best way to improve competition performance? Practice, obviously, but are there any specific drills you like that hammer marksmanship into your muscle memory the best? I'm just being knit picky I guess, but I'm always striving for perfection. If anyone has favorite drills or practice regimens I'd love to hear about it. Thanks and happy shooting everyone!
 
I'll start with a couple of things often overlooked as "too basic"...they both work together

1. Being able the accurately break your first shot as soon as you bring your gun up on target
2. Being able to push your gun out and as you arrive at a shooting position and have the sights on target

You don't want to be trying to find your sights or the target as you gun comes up/out
 
ilbob said:
I would not worry about speed. Practice technique. Speed will eventually come
Click to expand...
There are several great shooters at these matches who said the same thing...
9mmepiphany said:
You don't want to be trying to find your sights or the target as you gun comes up/out
Click to expand...
I have a bit of an issue with punching out and being slightly off center mass, I seem to be naturally pointing low, I don't know why. It takes me a second (or less) to readjust my sight picture to center mass. Transitioning from target to target seems to be ok once I take the extra time to center punch the first target. Thanks for the tips, you guys obviously know what your doing better than me. I seem to be flowing on instinct and that instinct is slightly off center. Thanks! Any more tips are greatly appreciated, I try to chat with other shooters at these matches but they're busy and I don't want to waste anyone's time bombarding them with questions. Thanks for taking the time to help!
 
Big-bore-bob said:
Mabye this is a stupid noob question but what do you all find is the best way to improve competition performance? Practice, obviously, but are there any specific drills you like that hammer marksmanship into your muscle memory the best?
Click to expand...

Practice on your weakest areas until they are not the weakest any more and repeat.

I wasn't a fan of the TX star in stages until I made a couple and figured them out. Turning a weakness into a strength.

Now even a little rusty I still do OK.

www.youtube.com

Tx Star vs. old guy with revolver

www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

Practice hard and regular stuff seems easy.

www.youtube.com

Spinning TX Star, 38 spl insert.

Ok, the whole star took ~2 min. Have to remove the 38 spl insert, for the lower 20 ga barrel to shake out the spent case, for each shot.
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
Big-bore-bob said:
I don't dry fire very often at all. How much wear and tear will a lot of dry fire practice put on my guns?
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It will not put much wear on them at all.

My suggestion is no dry firing until you can smoothly clear the holster and get the gun on target with a proper sight picture.

But I am by no means an expert, rank amateur is more like it.
 
Big-bore-bob said:
I don't dry fire very often at all. How much wear and tear will a lot of dry fire practice put on my guns?
Click to expand...

All of the high level shooters out there do thousands and thousands of dryfire reps a year. It's possible depending on your platform to break a firing pin after many thousands of reps but I've never done it. My primary competition gun wore out the barrel from live fire before I ever broke any parts on it.

This is one of the Bibles of dryfiring.

along with this

 
9mmepiphany said:
What part of your gun do you think will suffer any wear and tear from dry firing?
Click to expand...
I assumed hammer and trigger springs would wear out quickly, I've also read about of firing pins breaking. Should dry fire reps be logged the same way as live rounds as far as keeping up with maintenance intervals? My research into that topic is very limited. I'll definitely start working on some dry fire practice though, sounds like a great idea. Thanks for the tips everyone!
 
Big-bore-bob said:
I assumed hammer and trigger springs would wear out quickly, I've also read about of firing pins breaking. Should dry fire reps be logged the same way as live rounds as far as keeping up with maintenance intervals?
Click to expand...

Some firearms don't take to dry fire very well and others its not a big deal at all. What do you have?

You can log anything you like but I would suggest a shot timer that has par time and delay, to get the most out of your dry fire practice, you'll use it in your live fire practice too. A log is fine but in the end your on the clock and speed is what you are after, up to the point accuracy degrades.
 
Big-bore-bob said:
I assumed hammer and trigger springs would wear out quickly, I've also read about of firing pins breaking. Should dry fire reps be logged the same way as live rounds as far as keeping up with maintenance intervals? My research into that topic is very limited. I'll definitely start working on some dry fire practice though, sounds like a great idea. Thanks for the tips everyone!
Click to expand...

When people advocate dry practice, the dry firing is probably the least important aspect. Most of the dry practice you can do to get good at action shooting games (as well as defensive skills) can be done (and usually is) with a dead trigger.

If you're a newb, it's normal to think of marksmanship is the primary thing, but it's only a required thing. You have to be able to hit where you need to hit, but the keys to better performance are reducing the time and improving the consistency of everything else. That includes your draw and presentation and refining you index both while standing still and moving, target to target transitions, breaking the first shot when arriving at a new shooting position, leaving a shooting position as quickly as possible after breaking the last shot, movement in general, including efficiently starting and stopping exactly where you need to be, shooting on the move, etc. etc. Then there's also the whole world of breaking-down stages and making plans to complete the course of fire as quickly and efficiently as possible within you ability level.

Have fun!
 
rhino465 said:
leaving a shooting position as quickly as possible after breaking the last shot, movement in general, including efficiently starting and stopping exactly where you need to be, shooting on the move, etc. etc.
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This is really the "low hanging fruit" in competition...you don't even need to have a gun in hand to practice these.

I highly recommend a class with Kita Busse at 180 Friearms Training
 
9mmepiphany said:
This is really the "low hanging fruit" in competition...you don't even need to have a gun in hand to practice these.

I highly recommend a class with Kita Busse at 180 Friearms Training
Click to expand...

Thanks for that reference. I had never heard of Kita Busse, but the book looks interesting and it also seems like the training she offers could be very helpful. However, it on her web site it reads like she essentially invented the movement basics she mentions. People were doing, teaching, and learning that stuff long before 2019! I don't doubt that her perspective on the topic is valid and valuable information, but she was not the first unless she's older than she looks and her book was published 25 years earlier than it shows on Amazon.
 
Big-bore-bob said:
I take the extra time to center punch the first target.
Click to expand...

A perfect place for dry fire; work to draw and get on target right away.

What gun do you have? Some won't mind dry fire, some will benefit from a snap cap.
If you have a Glock, P320, M&P, or XD you can get the Dryfire trigger reset dummy magazine.
www.dryfiremag.com

Practice Shooting at Home | DryFireMag

Practice shooting in your own home with the DryFireMag. It is a dry-fire magazine that uses your own gun to provide audible and tactile trigger simulation.
www.dryfiremag.com www.dryfiremag.com
 
rhino465 said:
However, it on her web site it reads like she essentially invented the movement basics she mentions. People were doing, teaching, and learning that stuff long before 2019! I don't doubt that her perspective on the topic is valid and valuable information, but she was not the first
Click to expand...
Unless you're reading a different website than I am, I don't think that's what it claims. Basically she is doing for movement within the sport of Action Pistol Shooting is what Jeff Cooper did for fighting with a handgun.

She has evaluated the current state of the sport and blended established movement principles into it to make it more efficient. Then she's offering it all in one place/class so you don't have to learn it on your own in a hodge podge fashion. She offers the additional value of watching you perform to make corrections you can take away from the class

I figure that if shooters like JJ Racaza is engaging her for instruction, she must be offering something useful
 
Last edited:
An inverted half full water bottle held vertically by the cap end as a "level", tells you a lot in just a few steps. I've even modified shoes to keep it smooth as glass.
 
I'm late to the discussion, but as soon as I read the OP, my first thought was "dry fire". It's the secret sauce. Good to see it was suggested so quickly.

Just one word on it, though, and @rhino465 already hinted at it: Folks often think of dry fire as a trigger control drill, but in this context, think of it as more vision and gun handling practice. When shooting quickly, and especially multiple targets quickly, you need to see what you need to see. Your eyes might be fine, but it takes practice to really see (i.e., to perceive) what you need to see when you need to see it. And gun handling? Yep - just working on your draw, presentation and reloading will pay big dividends. Use a par timer. I even used a metronome to good effect.
 
That's the part of his post I was going to quote too. It takes a certain amount of experience, just to know what to look for, too see.

This is a lot of the reason dry fire is so important, because you don't have the distraction of actually shooting.
 
There a number of structured dry fire sessions on Youtube that are helpful. Below are just 2 examples. Don't start out going their speed - use a timer so you can monitor your improvement, but remember that quality (and seeing what you need to see) is paramount. If you can, set up mini IDPA targets. I recall I was able to print some out.

From my competition days, I remember Ben Stoeger's 15 minute session was pretty good:
www.youtube.com

15 Minute Dry Fire Program

Demo video for the core of a new dry fire training program I have developed. More details at BenStoeger.com
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

Steve Anderson literally wrote the book:
www.youtube.com

Dry Fire Training with Steve Anderson

From the LIVE session on the official IDPA facebook page, filmed Oct 2020. We learned about dry fire and mental management tips from Steve Anderson of Ander...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
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