IDPA/USPSA/CCW Holster choice?

[arizonaguide]

I'm lost!

I have recently purchased 2 handguns for near future CCW (and hopefully IDPA/USPSA or similar) use:

A SW442 (.38)revolver, and a KAHR P45 (.45) and I want to get involved with competition pistol shooting of some type (after the CCW class) to improve my shooting / training with my CCW handguns.

My roadblock is in choosing a holster.

I want to CCW the weapons in a IWB or OWB holster strong side back, typically under a polo shirt.

Does anyone have any advice on good IWB or OWB (J-frame and KAHR) Holster Choices that could work for CCW and IDPA?
And, if so would it be something that would have retention features, or is there such a thing?
Would this be the same holster I would/could use for IDPA or other such competitions?
Do they even have IDPA for J-Frame revolvers, or will I be limited to only using the KAHR for IDPA type competitions/training?

Are the typical competitions using CCW holsters, or are they required to be belt-mounted Open Carry type of rigs?
It's ALL new to me, but I have to start somewhere, and I would like to train/compete similar to how I will carry.

I'm Having trouble figuring out the proper holster for both CCW and IDPA-type use.

 

[Hk Dan]

IDPA will be best shot with a strong side OWB holster, though a lot of guys use strong side IWB too.

 

[Sam1911]

You may be overthinking this a bit!

All strong side IWB holsters are legal for IDPA competition (though not Small-Of-Back types which are a bad idea anyway). Something like a Milt Sparks Summer Special or Versa Max (and equivalents from other manufacturers) will be about the best of that style. Those are leather. Kydex works very well and is often a bit faster on the draw. You may or may not find it comforatble against your skin.

Most strong-side OWB holsters are legal, too. As long as they hold the gun tight against you, instead of holding it out away from your body like a true competition holster, and as long as the holster covers the trigger area completely, you're probably fine. Look at the DeSantis Speed Scabbard for one example -- this is the pancake or scabbard type. Basically two pieces of leather with the outer one molded to the gun and the inner one curved to follow your hip. They'll have a belt loop in front of the gun (sometimes two so you have a choice of cant positions) and one behind. Those are fast and conceal very well. Also look at the "tunnel" or "Bruce Nelson" style (with a wide loop directly between the gun and you - and usually another belt loop to the rear). These two OWBs conceal about 90% as well as an IWB, and will be welcomed in competition.

Don't be worried that you aren't choosing the "perfect" competition holster. Buy one or two you think will work for you for CCW (if you can try some before you buy that is much better) and use them to get into competition.

By the time you're ready to "need" a more optimal holster for competition, you'll also be looking at different guns, too. A snubby revolver and a Kahr are great for carry and will be a lot of fun to learn the competition games with. If IDPA or USPSA really rings you bell, though, you'll pretty soon be looking to get equipment that is more advantageous for competition. But by then you'll have all your own thoughts and opinions on the matter.

As to your other questions: IDPA requires that all holsters be reasonably appropriate for concealed carry. That's sort of the point of the game. Again, though, both IWB and OWB holsters meet those crieteria just fine. As for retention holsters? Very, very few competetors use such a thing. Retention holsters are primarily intended for law enforcement and similar uses where the gun will be visible to the public. In other words: subject to being grabbed by a bad guy. Concealed carry holsters can generally dispense with "retention devices" because, being hidden from view, they're much less likely to be grabbed.

You can compete in SSR division with a J-frame. You will not win very often unless you become quite good at reloading (5 shots instead of the standard 6), but you can learn to shoot it very well and have a whale of a good time. Your J-frame will, however, be just the thing for "Back Up Gun" side matches which a lot of clubs run freqently.

Good luck!

-Sam

 

[Jim Watson]

Sam is right.

I would like to see you start out with a belt or paddle OWB because it will be easier to holster a loaded gun repeatedly during match or practice. I have seen a number of people working out of an IWB and only a couple have been really consistently able to holster the gun without using both hands and/or sweeping his hand or kidney.

You can move on to an IWB as you gain experience, pick one with a really effective open mouth reinforcement, and do a good deal of dryfire practice on the draw and reholster.


IDPA occasionally runs BUG matches intended for belly guns like the 422 under very limited procedures.
Shoot it as a main match gun and you will be doing a LOT of reloading. Not necessarily a bad thing.
The P45 will fit the stage design much better.

 

[arizonaguide]

I think I agree, and would almost prefer the OWB just out of the comfort factor.

But, is there a good concealible OWB for the KAHR that would work?

As Sam recommended I plan on looking into the the DeSantis Speed Scabbard, and at the "tunnel" or "Bruce Nelson" styles to start with.

Are there other good recomendations? Holster selection seems to be drying up here locally so I'm trying to have a few options to choose from (find).

Something that would hold close to the body, but that isn't a pain to re-holster and could be used for IDPA stuff as well?

Choosing the Guns was fun, choosing the holster is getting to be a pain, and I hope to NOT have a drawer full of losers when I'm done!



Thanks folks!

 

[Sam1911]

For the Kahr:

Mini Speed Scabbard:
http://www.desantisholster.com/storefrontB2CWEB/browse.do?action=refresh_browse&ctg_id=1433

IWB:
http://www.desantisholster.com/storefrontB2CWEB/browse.do?action=refresh_browse&ctg_id=1438

The IWBs are listed for the Glock 26. I'm not sure if they're saying that those two are close enough in size/shape for the holster to work well for both. I'd call them first about that one.

Sure looks like the Mini Speed Scabbard would conceal under just about anything. I conceal a 5" 1911 and sometimes a 4" S&W 629 in similar rigs under just an untucked pull-over shirt or light sweater. Something as short as the Kahr should just disappear!

I'm not saying that DeSantis is anything special. I have one. I have others, though, too. It's just that their site is quick and easy to get some examples off of.

One company I can recommend highly is Shado: http://www.shado.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=LH

They're not hugely well known, but their products are top notch and VERY affordable. Nearly 1/2 the price of most other companies.

I have a model 111 (that's a tunnel or Nelson style) for my 629 that fits like a GLOVE and is so well reinforced around the mouth that I CAN'T crush it shut, so re-holstering is a breeze. Oh, and it cost $35! With it mounted on my Wilderness Instructor 1-3/4" reinforced belt, you could pick me up and carry me away by the holster and I doubt it would even shift on my hip. Rock solid!

-Sam

-Sam

 

[arizonaguide]

Great start Sam! Thank you!

I kinda like that belt mounted "mini-slide" for the KAHR
And what great deals at the other link! ($35)!!!
That shado clamshell looks like a must for the S&W442!

Thanks Sam!

 

[Sam1911]

That shado clamshell looks like a must for the S&W442!

Yeah. With a short-barreled snubby like the one pictured (or yours!) you could pretty much say if the bottom of your belt is concealed, with 1/2" to spare, your holster won't show, either. That is VERY high-riding.

Looks like a great choice to me. I've never been a big fan of pocket carry -- holsters are just more secure. That "clamshell" rig looks like the hot ticket for any small pistol.

-Sam

 

[arizonaguide]

And the price is unbeatable for a quality rig like that!!!

Thanks again Sam, with your help I finally think I've got this worked out.


AZG

 

[Rmeju]

I just shot my first IDPA match last Sunday. I was the only one there with an IWB holster (at least in my group of 21 people).

I CCW with the holster I competed with, and I figure it's good practice, even if it doesn't help squeeze every last second out of your score.

FWIW, I felt that it didn't really hurt my competetiveness very much (my poor shooting skills took care of that ), it just didn't seem to be the preferred method for my club.

Rmeju

 

[Sam1911]

Tell me you didn't shoot as part of a 21-man squad? OUCH! 8 or 9 is annoying enough. 10 or 12 is too many. 21? :banghead:

it just didn't seem to be the preferred method for my club.

No, it isn't going to be preferred by anyone who shoots much competition, just due to the slightly harder draw. Plenty of folks use them to start out and then buy faster leather/kydex later if they get "serious" about competition. But IWBs are secure, safe, and legal.

Enjoy!

-Sam