If Private Sales Banned- Where do dealers stand?
- Thread starter Redlg155
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Redlg155
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I do applaud most of the dealers in Fl that charge $5.00 to run the NICS check instead of the allowed $15.00 fee. There is one in town that charges the full $15 and I refuse to deal with him.
Here in Florida I've seen prices vary from $25+5 for background check to $40+15 for B/G/C/ There are not to many bonafied gun shops where I live, but there is hundreds of pawn shops that suck the life out of gun owners who aren't to savy. Unfortunately it seams like a growing trend that I'm sure pawn shop owners would sell out to mandatory background checks to make a profit off the public.
Not since 1968, which was, what, 45 years ago?
Kramer Krazy
Member
I have one of these from my grandfather. IIRC, it is a ca-1968 Remington Speedmaster 22 rifle. I haven't looked at it in a few years. It's just sitting in a dark corner of the safe.
Sport45
Member
In the last 30 years I have bought, sold, or traded a gun or three.
Not once was there a "Bill of Sale" presented or requested for any of the face to face trades.
There is no way the government can track, regulate, or prohibit private sale of firearms unless we allow it through registration or some other asinine means.
Not once was there a "Bill of Sale" presented or requested for any of the face to face trades.
There is no way the government can track, regulate, or prohibit private sale of firearms unless we allow it through registration or some other asinine means.
mgkdrgn
Member
The terminology is more than adequate .. it's just not enforced. There is a difference.
If you have no FFL, and you show up at 5 gun shows both buying and selling, you are "in the business". However, there is no "big press bump" from busting Joe Blow at some gunshow selling old 22 rifles. Also, someone would actually have to do some work to investigate and make a case ... hence no enforcement.
As for Oxycodone ... yes, you can legally own it, in small quantities, ... if you have prescription for it. But it is a controlled substance, and it's illegal for you to own it without a prescription. As it is a controlled substance, it's also illegal for you to sell it without the proper credentials and federal licensing. I also don't recall reading anywhere in the US Constitution about the "right to keep and bear Oxycodone", and firearms are not a "controlled substance".
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You think firearms aren't controlled? I have news for you. You asked for an item legal to possess but illegal to sell to someone else. I answered correctly.
The problem is the distinction between selling your own guns, and selling your own guns for profit is so minute as to be almost invisible. Thus no enforcement. I can't think of a way to preserve people's right to sell their own personal property while eliminating Joe Schmuck with his table at every gun show.
So the next best thing is to close "the gun show loophole" (as if there was such a thing) by requiring background checks of all firearms transferred at sanctioned events. It at least gets rid of a particular burr in my saddle, and probably would make the antis happy.
The problem is the distinction between selling your own guns, and selling your own guns for profit is so minute as to be almost invisible. Thus no enforcement. I can't think of a way to preserve people's right to sell their own personal property while eliminating Joe Schmuck with his table at every gun show.
So the next best thing is to close "the gun show loophole" (as if there was such a thing) by requiring background checks of all firearms transferred at sanctioned events. It at least gets rid of a particular burr in my saddle, and probably would make the antis happy.
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Redlg155
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Why do we need government intervention? I would prefer that the gun show managers step in and put a stop to those folks if they believe they are breaking the law. I'm sure that it would raise eyebrows if someone was pushing the same volume as a dealer, but I doubt this is the case.
At the shows in my area you usually see the guy with a dowel stuck in the muzzle waving a price or a coulple with the old lady shopping carts.
At the shows in my area you usually see the guy with a dowel stuck in the muzzle waving a price or a coulple with the old lady shopping carts.
smalls
Member
You act like every person who is not an FFL buying a table at a gun show is dealing guns illegally.
Oh, and for those who are dealing gun illegally, would a new law put them out? If you think it would, why do you think the old laws haven't put them in jail yet? It's already illegal, you can't make something even more illegal than it already is. You can add repercussions, but they do no good without enforcement. Sound farmilliar? Our current laws.
Actually I was explicit that not everyone who buys a table is acting illegally. And you missed the part where I wrote that separating those acting illegally from those acting legally is very difficult to do. This is why the law needs clarifying. But instead of clarifying that part I'd just as soon prohibit person to person transfers at sanctioned events. Two guys meeting in a parking lot are fine. A guy with a table full of his own guns week after week at a show is not.
P5 Guy
Member
I have never been able to sell a firearm at a gunshow and walk away with more money than I paid for the dang thing new. My guns are always plain jane worn out rusty junk to the guy wanting to buy and the guy selling always has a one of a kind rarity worht twice its weight in gold, even when it is the same as mine. 
X-Rap
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[/QUOTE] A guy with a table full of his own guns week after week at a show is not.
[/QUOTE]
There are many gun owners/collectors that frequent gun shows to increase, improve and at times even liquidate their collections and they would be far from profit making dealers.
Gunshows should be more for the hobbiest and less for the FFL dealer in my opinion.
They were much like flea markets or swap meets for guns before they were taken over by retailers and beef jerky salesman.
[/QUOTE]
There are many gun owners/collectors that frequent gun shows to increase, improve and at times even liquidate their collections and they would be far from profit making dealers.
Gunshows should be more for the hobbiest and less for the FFL dealer in my opinion.
They were much like flea markets or swap meets for guns before they were taken over by retailers and beef jerky salesman.
22-rimfire
Member
I agree with the hobbiest preference with gunshows. But with the stroke of a pen, all face to face sales would have to go through a FFL dealer. That is the case already in some states. Being done at a gunshow or other accumulation of people would simply make such transactions easier with FFL dealers present.
The transfers might be a good little sideline and getting a FFL might be a great idea to make a little side money if such a change were made.
The transfers might be a good little sideline and getting a FFL might be a great idea to make a little side money if such a change were made.
And if they show up and do that just every now and then I wouldn't have an issue.
But many of them show up week after week trading, selling and buying guns. That is an unlicensed dealer and it needs to go. If they legitimately are doing this for their own collection then they shouldn't have a problem going through an FFL for any background check.
clg114
Member
As armed citizens,we take on a lot of responsibility. One of these is to make sure that any arms in our possession.do not fall into the wrong hands. This makes selling a gun very tricky. I buy and sell guns often enough that it is a concern to me. Selling on a online auction works well for me. They have a FFL and it is their responsibility to do the backround check. I can control what it sells for and because of the nature of auctions,it quite often sells for more than I thought it would.
smalls
Member
I don't need a licensed dealer (and pay ~$40/transfer) to buy/sell/trade baseball cards, why should guns be any different. Your reasoning is... off.
JohnBT
Member
"There are many gun owners/collectors that frequent gun shows to increase, improve and at times even liquidate their collections and they would be far from profit making dealers. "
You forgot to include the guys who go from show to show with the same bunch of very nice guns and spend most of their time socializing. Maybe they win a couple hundred bucks for the best table display from the promoter, but they aren't there to sell guns or make money. If they do, that's great, but that's not the motivation.
Considering all of the uniformed and undercover police at the Richmond gun shows over the years, I figure they know who is who and who is selling what.
John
You forgot to include the guys who go from show to show with the same bunch of very nice guns and spend most of their time socializing. Maybe they win a couple hundred bucks for the best table display from the promoter, but they aren't there to sell guns or make money. If they do, that's great, but that's not the motivation.
Considering all of the uniformed and undercover police at the Richmond gun shows over the years, I figure they know who is who and who is selling what.
John
Not hard to see, I am a FFL 01/08/SOT.
I am against banning private sales.
1. Only a few people would follow it.
2. It would criminalize otherwise honest people for no good reason.
3. It inferences on the peoples A4 and A10 rights.
This would take control of all firearms sales away from the states and put them under federal regulations.
One problem would be, that a handgun can not be bought by a person younger then 21 since as an FFL I can not transfer or sell handguns to 18-20 years old.
Plenty of states give however rightfully CCW's out to people of 18 years and older.
Personally I would not sell or buy a firearm from a person I don't know in a private sale.
I also think no firearms should be stored outside a safe of some kind to make it hard for them to be stolen.
Again, I am against laws regulating what people do at home with their property.
I rather apply to every responsible and ethical gun owner to prevent future problems.
This has of course NOT be done with arms; this should be done with peaceful demonstrations and civil disobedience.
One effective way would be flooding the government with requests, complains and petitions.
If Ms. Feinstein would have gotten a letter form every other gun owner, she would have not gotten into her office this morning!
Cost to every gun owner counting the paper; less then a dollar.
I am against banning private sales.
1. Only a few people would follow it.
2. It would criminalize otherwise honest people for no good reason.
3. It inferences on the peoples A4 and A10 rights.
This would take control of all firearms sales away from the states and put them under federal regulations.
One problem would be, that a handgun can not be bought by a person younger then 21 since as an FFL I can not transfer or sell handguns to 18-20 years old.
Plenty of states give however rightfully CCW's out to people of 18 years and older.
Personally I would not sell or buy a firearm from a person I don't know in a private sale.
I also think no firearms should be stored outside a safe of some kind to make it hard for them to be stolen.
Again, I am against laws regulating what people do at home with their property.
I rather apply to every responsible and ethical gun owner to prevent future problems.
Easily said, but I hope soon people will rise and fight for their rights.
This has of course NOT be done with arms; this should be done with peaceful demonstrations and civil disobedience.
One effective way would be flooding the government with requests, complains and petitions.
If Ms. Feinstein would have gotten a letter form every other gun owner, she would have not gotten into her office this morning!
Cost to every gun owner counting the paper; less then a dollar.
RockyMtnTactical
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If an AWB 2.0 or similar is passed, it will kill off a lot of smaller dealers without question.
BlueBronco
Member
People don't generally get 10 to 20 years in jail for speeding and forfeit most of the rights in the process. Therefore, if there is a requirement for private sales to go through a FFL, it will be a big deal if someone screws up and sells to a C.I. or undercover ATF agent etc., or gets ratted on. That said, I currently go through an FFL now unless it is someone I know real well like one of my sons etc. or someone with a ccw license and character reference. That said, I am strongly against any law that outlaws private sales.
ErikO
Member
I know enough talented machinists to not fear a private sale ban. If I make what I want for personal use it's my business. I'm planning on learning gun smithing anyway.
I'm still confused why Bloomberg is walking around a free man after admitting consperacy to committ multiple straw purchases on video in 2009...
I'm still confused why Bloomberg is walking around a free man after admitting consperacy to committ multiple straw purchases on video in 2009...
I can help you there: Eric Holder is the US Attorney General and the biggest illegal gun dealer I heard off in the US!
So he can't possibly prosecute Bloomberg.
And we are talking about over 2,000 guns sold to known criminals.
I somehow don't understand the basic logic of F&F. You sell guns which you know are going to be used in crimes (aka murder for example a USBP officer) so that you can figure out what exactly??
Maybe we should feed Holder in the DC zoo to lyons to find out if lyons really eat people??
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