If the 1911 and Glock 21 were both made in the year 1911
- Thread starter coolluke01
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1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
No, it wouldn't have.
The US Cavalry requested the "manual, slide locking safety" for some very good reasons.
Namely, reholstering the piece in order to regain control of a frightened horse without shooting oneself or the horse in the process. Even in those unenlightened days, the thinkin' heads understood that a man under stress might forget to get his finger out of the trigger guard before jammin' it back into a holster. (See "Glock Leg")
"Slide locking" because jamming a dirty pistol into a holster could push the slide out of battery, possibly not returning when it was re-drawn. Bad JuJu in the middle of a close-quarters firefight.
Incidentally, the "Locked" part of cocked and locked refers to the slide...not the fire control group.
The grip safety was there in 1907 and 1909 on Colt's military contract pistols...and that was a cavalry requirement as well. Dropped from horse-mounted height, the pistol's center of gravity tended to flip it over and strike the ground muzzle up...with the heavy steel trigger's momentum firing the gun upward at the horse and the rider.
So...no. They wouldn't have picked the Glock in 1910.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Way Before.
The first I remember it being hammered into our heads in print was Jeff Coopers four rules developed in the old Southwest Combat Pistol League in the early 60's.
It was probably a rule long before that.
But like I mentioned, gun leather of the time, including cops duty gear, usually had a slot in the holster so you could get your finger on the trigger before the gun ever moved in the holster.
rc
Wow, I didn't know either of these points. That's some interesting information.
Thanks for the information RC. Like I said, I ain't been around long, and (while I've always loved guns) I've only been a shooter for a couple years, so I have a lot to learn from the people with the experience you do.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Oh, there's more...even though it flies in the face of conventional wisdom.
Before the addition of the thumb safety, the half-cock was considered to be the safety position, and is so named in the original 1910 patents...and it does lock the fire control group...solidly.
savanahsdad
Member
sarcastic ?? just a little , maybe not a whole tool box but more than a 1911 would need, taking the slide off and removing the barrel is not takeing the whole gun apart , on a 1911 you can change the frieing pin and extractor with no tools
coolluke01
Member
Unless I'm wrong about this but the drop safety would protect against this.
Very interesting about the cocked and locked. I didn't know the 1911 slide would lock when cocked. It will release when the hammer falls then?
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
No, it is released when you take the thumb safety off to fire the gun.
rc
rc
coolluke01
Member
I see so the locked refers to both the safety being on and the slide locked.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
In 1911, the grip safety was the drop safety. There was no other.
That's what the triangular cut in the slide and the shape of the thumb safety accomplish. Engage the thumb safety and try to manually cycle the slide. Can't do it.
Preconceived notions and emotional attachments have nothing to do with it. The Marines didn't choose to resurrect the 1911 because that was what grandpa carried ashore at Normandy or because they think that John Wayne's looked cool in the Sands of Iwo Jima. Their reasons were much more practical and realistic. They're not playing soldier. They're going into places that you can't visit, even in your worst nightmares.
Here's where you let us know, what you don't really know.
There is one punch tool that disassembles the whole Glock in less than 30 seconds, with exception to removing the sights from slide. Not sure where/how you heard you need a tool box full of tools? Yes, that's a complete strip of frame and slide.
ny32182
Member
You can take a Glock completely apart in less than 5 minutes with nothing but a small flathead screwdriver.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Excluding the grips and the ejector...I can take a true 1911 completely apart in about a minute with nothing at all other than the gun's own parts.
Clemson? You're within strike distance. If you're ever up this way, look me up and I'll give ya a demonstration.
Quack
Member
Quack
Member
I know you know this, but for others.
If you have standard slotted grip screws, the only thing that can't be taken out without tools are the sights and ejector.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
Actually, it was brought up in another thread that maybe the emotional attachment isn't there, but the requirement to change training manuals and purchase new accessories is one of the reasons to stay with the 1911.
Now that I think about it, though, I don't like the idea of a safety that locks the slide forward...it's one of the things I don't like about my XDm (grip safety locks it forward). Reason is, I shouldn't have to take the safety off to clear the gun. My personal preference. Each option fixes a different problem. Of course, the grip safety won't be active when I holster it (hand is on the grip) which means it doesn't solve that problem.
ny32182
Member
I'll be at IDPA East Coast championship and Nationals in the next few weeks. Looks like Lexington is right on the way.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Yup. The original slotted grip screws were also dished in the slots, so they could be removed with a case rim.
Does that bring ya anywhere near Lexington, NC? I'm within 5 minutes of I-85...out here in the boondocks.
savanahsdad
Member
THANK YOU ,, and I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed , but "a punch tool " and "screwdriver" those are tools ,,,, right :banghead: :banghead:
TAKtical
Member
Glock lol. I know we have tons of 1911 fans here but please be honest with yourself. Glock, hands down, landslide victory. Durability, reliability, round capacity, ease of takedown and maintenance, weight, and design (striker instead of hammer). Just my opinion.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Come play follow the leader, and do as I do...and I'll take that bet.
I don't even need those. The 1911 is its own tool box.
As a Glock-ish fan myself, I have to say that the majority of what you mentioned is a wash between the two. Weight and capacity are really the only two bonuses the Glock has over 1911.
I say Glock-ish because I'm more a XD fan, but its closer to Glock than a 1911. I do like the striker over the hammer, but I'm not really sure that's an advantage unless you're concealing it in a pocket where the hammer is a potential snag.
ny32182
Member
So you were knowingly equating "a punch" to a "toolbox"? I think that is where the disconnect is occuring in people's minds. You need one small tool. Hell the striker probably could work in a pinch if you have strong fingers.
Yes both take me right up 85. Depending on carpool arrangements and timing I might not mind checking out your setup.
savanahsdad
Member
so how many of you have both ? as i do . putting my 1911 up agianst a glock just it's fair to the glock, heck my Ruger P89 tops a my glock (wifes glock I meen )
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