If you couldn't have an AR....

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WrongHanded said:
I know that these days many gun owners love their ARs and prefer them to anything else as a do-it-all/jack-of-all-trades/practical rifle.

But if you couldn't have an AR - if they just didn't exist in the civilian market - what would you have instead? And why?

[This isn't about a gun grab, it's just a thought exercise. So there's no need to get all political.]
Click to expand...

As a thought exercise, let's assume some levels.
1) The AR-15 was never made for civilian use but standard capacity semi auto detachable mag rifles are still available - CZ BREN 2, or a CheckpointUSA vz-58. Mini-14 but only the newer heavy barrel version.
2) If detachable mag rifles were no longer available, but semi auto is still kosher - SKS. I just like the dadgum things.
3) Semi auto is not available, but bolt/lever is, CZ 527M in 7.62x39mm or 5.56mm, Enfield No4 Mk1*, or any good solid lever in 30-30.
 
I too have fallen in love with the sks. They’ve always been there waiting for me. Silly me had to try all the other expensive and sometimes less reliable options first. My search for that role is over. Next gun role question!
 
DrDeFab said:
A lot of people have listed some very nice things to have in addition to (or in preference to) an AR, but assuming I wanted a direct replacement: Kbs wz. 1996 Beryl
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Atlantic sells civilian versions of this in 5.56 and 7.62x39, you would have to change out the stock and buy the rail separately. They sell out fast when they come in:
https://atlanticfirearms.com/fb-radom-beryl-m1-223s-rifle-556-fabryka-broni-luczink
https://atlanticfirearms.com/fb-radom-beryl-m1-rifle-762x39-fabryka-broni
 
All but one of my rifles aren't ARs, so I've got that covered already.

I guess this is mostly about autoloaders in rifle cartridges? If so, I guess I would have put my money on a M1A Scout Squad, if ARs never existed.
 
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** DISCLAIMER ** I do not now, nor have I ever, owned an AR-type rifle/carbine/etc.

I think I'd just stick with my 'ol 30-30... it's been good enough for me all these years, it'll be good enough a while longer. Really don't expect to be in any running gunfights anytime soon, so my need for a semi auto that holds 20 or 30 rounds is negligible. Failing that, I think a nice lever carbine in 357 would be an excellent stand in. I also owned a Mini-14 for about 2 weeks, and while it was a lot of fun, it wasn't much good for "serious" work IMHO.

Mac
 
If I couldn't have an AR I'd have a FAL, because it's superior to the AR in every way except transportability and customizability and costability. (OK, I might have made up a couple words for purposes of alliteration).
 
"I know that these days many gun owners love their ARs and prefer them to anything else as a do-it-all/jack-of-all-trades/practical rifle."

The AR especially the M4geries (semi-auto replicas of the military issue M4) are also owned and used today for civilian marksmanship practice. Going back to the Colonies before the Revolution, having the citizenry familiar with the military issue arm was seen as essential to raising a volunteer army in times of national crisis.

I also believe from the 1960s onward that it was good to be familiar with the capabilities and limitations of the weapons of potential allies and enemies. SOOO if I couldn't have an AR ... I'd keep my Kalashnikov.
 
Probably what I had before I got back into AR's; an AK. Still have it. I took an enemy weapons familiarization course in the Army. I have no desire to fire an AK full-auto, but they are a decent battle rifle in semi-auto.
 
WrongHanded said:
I know that these days many gun owners love their ARs and prefer them to anything else as a do-it-all/jack-of-all-trades/practical rifle.

But if you couldn't have an AR - if they just didn't exist in the civilian market - what would you have instead? And why?

[This isn't about a gun grab, it's just a thought exercise. So there's no need to get all political.]
Click to expand...

The same guns we all had before the panic of the 1990's - Lever action and bolt action hunting rifles. I don't recall anyone I know needing anything more than those until the 90's. I didn't know a single person who owned an AR until probably 2000 and we all managed to get along just fine.
 
Newtosavage said:
The same guns we all had before the panic of the 1990's - Lever action and bolt action hunting rifles. I don't recall anyone I know needing anything more than those until the 90's. I didn't know a single person who owned an AR until probably 2000 and we all managed to get along just fine.
Click to expand...
I never worried about need. I did have an SKS back then, because I liked the idea of an affordable semiauto. I knew a lot of people who had AK's then, for that very reason.

That's probably the reason you didn't see AR's. We all liked the American rifle, but it was just too expensive compared to these other options. Today, it's the opposite... a quick glance online and the cheapest SKS I see is $450. AK's push $900. In comparison, I can find a generic cheap lower for $150, and I see complete uppers under $300.... BCA sent me an email with a 16" complete upper in 556 for $260.
 
I would look for various magazine fed bolt action rifles. I have a 22tcm carbine and I thought I would like it better, but the overall quality is poor.

A real favourite is my Ruger 44/77. My only issue is that the 10 round magazines are quite pricey. I understand why they are, but compared to AR magazines, they are spendy.
 
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Newtosavage said:
The same guns we all had before the panic of the 1990's - Lever action and bolt action hunting rifles. I don't recall anyone I know needing anything more than those until the 90's. I didn't know a single person who owned an AR until probably 2000 and we all managed to get along just fine.
Click to expand...

lsudave said:
I never worried about need. I did have an SKS back then, because I liked the idea of an affordable semiauto. I knew a lot of people who had AK's then, for that very reason.

That's probably the reason you didn't see AR's. We all liked the American rifle, but it was just too expensive compared to these other options. Today, it's the opposite... a quick glance online and the cheapest SKS I see is $450. AK's push $900. In comparison, I can find a generic cheap lower for $150, and I see complete uppers under $300.... BCA sent me an email with a 16" complete upper in 556 for $260.
Click to expand...

Yup. I started with an SKS before the AWB. And I wanted a surplus M1 Garand and surplus M1 Carbine at the same time, too. Another want back then was a Marlin Camp 9.

ARs were unobtanium in price for me back then.
 
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I've gotten rid of my AR-15s and much prefer t a v o r 556 and 308 but with that said I did keep my Adam's arms AR-10 308.
Also the galil Ace is far superior in most regards to an AR-15 as is the scar
 
As a Californian, I pretty much can't have an AR. That doesn't especially bother me, though. I sold my last one more than 20 years ago. I just don't really have a use for them - which isn't to say that they are useless, but rather that they don't fit any of my uses.

Someday I will have either an M1A or a Garand, both of which are still CA legal for some reason. Meanwhile, I guess I'll have to keep managing with my collection of walnut and blue steel...
 
I find that scoped rifles in .223, .243, and .270 will handle about all my rifle needs. An 18" barreled Rem 1100 makes a good home defense piece, along with semi-auto and revolvers in 9mm, .45 ACP, and .357 Mag make us feel pretty safe, not to mention the heavily pock-marked steel hog silhouette in the yard.
 
Already own the alternatives. It's not hypothetical, neither is the fact that life is short.

My Czechpoint VZ-58, :cool:
and Three imported AKMs.:) * Can't justify an MP5.

2014080714105852610-167450.jpg

She's "Bunny Hunter" (Youtube, and a friend of Valerie and Mark Serbu), holding "my" identical Czech VZ-58. Serbu's VZ-58 is select-fire. That;s an MP5 in her right hand. This intelligent, foxy lady..... has a good video cleaning that little HK beast.

** Not every "new shooter" knows what these are. ;) Let's not assume that new people are always familiar.
 
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