If you were me… a future in competition...

[Brenainn]

Hopefully I can make this make sense! I’m not one to get all caught up in “divisions” or get too serious about something that is supposed to be fun, but I can’t help but think about what I should be doing next to further my opportunities and successes in the future. You can call it strategy, call it planning, whatever! I’m just asking for opinions but mostly advice…

So, if you were me -a young, small, female - new to the competition world (USPSA), started off shooting Limited 10 (45 SS 1911), had shot a few small matches plus Area 6, and was pretty decent at it, would you keep going with in the single stack division and progress in/with it? Or would you move on to a different division such as Open or Production to be more “successful” or competitive? If so why/why not?

I would like to be successful in competition. I genuinely LOVE shooting! I’d like to pick up some sponsors and have a good time shooting. Is it more unique for a young female to be shooting what I already am, or moving to a different division? (It seems like this is the “thing to do“) And if so, does that mean anything more than just being unique? Is there a “place” for ladies in Limited 10? (I know, who cares - right?) Unique is generally good, and I have never been one to go with the rest of the crowd anyway. I do like shooting Limited 10, but I am also not against the other divisions. It sort of seams to me though, that now, everyone is shooting Open, especially the ladies - but why?

Basically I’m trying to figure out where I might fit in and do well in the long run - pick up sponsors for financial help, etc.

If you were in my shoes, what would your next move be? Would you change anything? Should I move on for some reason? Keep in mind I do not have an unlimited source for gun income right now and am somewhat limited in what I can do.

Let me know! Thanks!

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

hi
I do not know much about the type of shooting you do but here is what I see in my sport. high power.
I do know personally sponsered shooters and some are at the top of the sport and a few are in the position you are now.
Some sponsers are tough and some are really willing to help.
build a resume and work on it with what you have done and your goals and the such.
Then send it out to different company's. you may not get much in money help but in product or discounts it may help you.

company's like hornady or sierra and a few other's may help you or let you know who to contact in your area for items at a discount. Or with luck sponser you. big help on componets.
Let your imagination work for you. I have seen red bull, oakley and under armor to name just a few give shooters items for the advertising they get on you using their products and promoting them afterwards. Some of them were not always to top shooters.

good luck on your quest and keep shooting.
jon

 

[Jim Watson]

You are way ahead of yourself with the sponsor business.
Think about sponsors when you are a consistent WINNER. They don't want to back Miss Average Shooter. My IDPA vest has the Team Mediocre logo. It does not have any sponsor logos for some reason.

As to the Division, pick one and stick with it. There are women in others besides Open. Personally, if I were young and agile and moving up in the game, wanting to get noticed, I'd shoot Limited.

 

[Corey ACP]

THX

1st, thanks for the lanyard,
Be flexible, as you get more experience, you will naturally find what you like, guns, loads, type of shooting games etc...... I've been doing various shooting games for recreation and professionally quite a while now, Most of the time with single stack 1911 pistols because that is what fits my hand best.
As they say, "you better dance with the one you brought to the dance for a while first".....
Although the current action shooting games, IDPA, USPSA etc. are a hoot and similar, don't discount the more sedate disciples like bullseye.
Have fun, and good shooting,
And remember, the opinions you get here on THR or other boards is worth exactly what you paid for it.

YMMV
Best wishes...

 

[Diamondback6]

My suggestion, even though I'm not yet a competitor (other than the odd "loser buys the cold ones"--usually me), would be to sample a little of everything and see what you do best or what "feels" right for you, then focus on your two best fields as "Primary" and "Secondary".

 

[JoeSlomo]

I would like to be successful in competition.

In competition, you may be better at an event or division you don't particularly like as much as others. While it is easy to say "shoot the division you enjoy the most", that particular division may not be the one you shoot the "best". If you want to win, shoot what you shoot the best, be it single stack, limited / L - 10, open, whatever.

"Is there a “place” for ladies in Limited 10?"

There is a place for shooters in EVERY division. Gender has nothing to do with it, skill is the deciding factor.

As far as sponsors go, take what you can get.

Seriously. If a company is willing to fork over something as small as an entry fee, that's more trigger time for you. Bullets, mags, holsters, parts, etc, can all be obtained, and all are helpful in pursuit of your goal. All you have to do is ask, if they say no, no biggie. Once you get some serious wins under your belt, the potential for greater assistance increases. Just be advised that being fully sponsored can be a DETRIMENT to your enjoyment of the sport. Once Brian Enos became fully sponsored, he found himself not to be as happy as he thought because he had turned what he LOVED to do, shooting, into a "job" as opposed to an enjoyable hobby that he was passionate about.

Good luck regardless.

 

[testar77]

Like Mr. Watson said. I think you are getting waaaaay ahead of yourself by thinking of sponsors at this point, right now you need to have fun, and concentrate on improving, and getting competative first. Look at it this way, how many people at these matches shoot better than you do? How many of them have sponsors? Like I said, have fun and shoot as much as you have time/can afford to, and getting better will come automatically.

just my 2 cents.

 

[Brenainn]

See, I knew you guys would say I was going way ahead of myself ! Personally, If it comes, it comes... and like I said, I'm not one to get caught up in the hoopla. I'm also not necessarily talking about big name, full sponsorships yet... just smaller things and like someone said, maybe even just for the entry fees for matches to be covered - THAT alone would help me tremendously! I almost can't afford to advance/improove much on my own...

Anyway, sponsorship really wasn't all that I was asking about. More of some advice on what to do next, what divisions to shoot, some opinions, etc.

The bottom line is, I seriously do this first and foremost because I enjoy it and it's fun. Anything else that comes along to make it easier to afford/shoot is just an added bonus! I've certainly got priorities, and the first one is definitely to have fun first. However, there is nothing wrong with planning ahead and setting goals to succeed by either!

Thanks for the suggestions though! I think I'll figure it out!

Oh Cory, your welcome!

 

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

If I shot IDPA, I'd shoot Limited 10!

There is a place for shooters in EVERY division. Gender has nothing to do with it, skill is the deciding factor.

I disagree and agree.. While skill is a factor, to be the most skilled is not necessary to have a good time. Gender has nothing to do with it.

Most of us shoot for fun, although we challenge ourselves to be better than the next shooter and develop friendly rivalry's, unless you're being coached, have hours every day to devote to your discipline, have a stockpile of guns and equipment, most any of us will never win a national event. Sure, there are some truly gifted people out there on the expressway to success, but that is not the norm.

I suggest that you practice as much as you can, get your reloading going, -that in itself is a rewarding challenge, then go win a division (Limited 10). Set your sights on winning at the club you shoot at the most. Compare your scores with regional event participants. Figure out where you stand. Then set a goal. Reach it. Set small attainable goals first. Don't look too far to the future. I don't think you'd be even looked at by sponsors unless you can win regional events. Then once finances are lined up, maybe move on to a different division with a different style gun/caliber. At national events, there are other divisions that get more media attention, but if you win in Limited, I and I'll guess several other readers here, would regard the Limited 10 winner a better shooter than the rest. It appears to be a tough division. I don't know the rules well enough, are the divisions sexually segregated? Would you be happy being a female champion, or is overall champion more your style?

TESTAR77 gives me crap for shooting my 1911 in Bullseye with iron sights. While my scores are less than his right now, (he's using a red dot on his 1911), I feel that I'll eventually be a better shooter once I've reached a goal the hard way. (call me old fashioned) But once I do put a dot sight on, I expect my scores to go up even more. -That in mind, if you keep shooting your single stack 1911 and get really good with it, the other guns/calibers will be even more manageable when you do decide to switch.

-Steve

 

[brighamr]

Here's my advice - find a gun you really enjoy shooting, and that you feel completely confident with. Let the gun decide your division.

IIRC, the sports were designed to use your carry weapon (the one you're most comfortable with and would probably use in a bad situation). Sure, Michelak and Jarret don't use production XDs, BUT when they started I bet they used the gun they felt most confidence with... JMO

 

[Fred40]

TESTAR77 gives me crap for shooting my 1911 in Bullseye with iron sights. While my scores are less than his right now, (he's using a red dot on his 1911), I feel that I'll eventually be a better shooter once I've reached a goal the hard way. (call me old fashioned) But once I do put a dot sight on, I expect my scores to go up even more. -That in mind, if you keep shooting your single stack 1911 and get really good with it, the other guns/calibers will be even more manageable when you do decide to switch.

-Steve

You mentioned something similar on the Bullseye mailing list. Not saying you are right or wrong, just trying to figure out the idea here. I'm a huge believer in specificity....if your going to be shooting with a dot, then learn with a dot. Why reach a certain level with iron sights then switch? Yes iron sights are harder.....but why make it harder. IMHO you still need to learn ALL of the basics, sight alignment, grip, trigger control...etc, to shoot a dot well.

 

[sargenv]

If you have the gear for Limited 10, keep shooting Limited 10. All of the skill sets for that division will translate well to other divisions save Revolver. Revolver is a whole different skill set by itself.. I know this because that's what I shoot.. in either Revolver division (S&W 610) or Limited 10 (S&W 627 - minor).

A lot of people start out watching the really top shooters with their $4000 race guns and additional equipment blazing stages and winning matches.. Those people had to put just as much time in as you will have to to get as good as they are. I would suspect that any A class shooter has probably shot between 50 to 100 thousand rounds or more to get to where they are unless they were a natural shooter.. I expend approx 15,000 rounds a year in matches and practice to maintain my high B status in Revolver and L10.. though I'm slowly creeping upward percentage wise.

At my club we have some very good shooters (even a couple of GM's) and there are a lot more C class Open shooters than there are B, A, or M class ones.. However we have a good number of M, A, and B class Production and Limited 10 shooters. The only way I'm going to beat one of our better L10 shooters is to pick up my Para Limited gun and shoot on equal terms with him and shoot major. I usually finish about 70% of him, but I'm artificially handicapped by shooting minor to his major, and 8 rounds to his 10 or 11 rounds to start..

Instead of "upgrading" to a gun with a dot on it, use what you have and put your money into ammunition and practice with that. I'm a believer that you can transfer a lot of your knowledge between divisions. Having to manage your ammunition in the long run makes you a better shot and gives you more confidence than blazing away shots (and time) while using a dot sight. Dry fire with a timer also helps you smooth out your style. Using a par time can increase your draw speed by repetition under pressure.

 

[btg3]

+1 for reloading. It can help reduce cost and tailor your loads to improve your shooting.

Do you have a coach? Not a buddy or an instructor, but a personal coach with a history of coaching your event. In addittion to working on shooting skills, a coach can also advise on career path. How serious are you?

 

[Brenainn]

+1 for reloading. It can help reduce cost and tailor your loads to improve your shooting.

Do you have a coach? Not a buddy or an instructor, but a personal coach with a history of coaching your event. In addittion to working on shooting skills, a coach can also advise on career path. How serious are you?

Yep, I've got the reloading stuff set up now, so hopefully I'll be able to get started with that soon.

As far as a coach, no. I don't have one with the knowledge to advise, etc. like you are saying. There are a lot of people who offer regular shooting tips, but no one like you mentioned - yet.

And I am pretty darn serious. I really wish I could get some evaluations though, because I don't know if I am really decent or not!

 

[btg3]

Given no coach as yet, how about some good reading? All those good tips at the range, while well-meaning... well, I think you know.

Who's got some reading recommendations?

I think your scores are an indicator as to whether you're decent. An evaluation, might provide early detection of some bad habits and steer you toward better technique, but this leads to coaching. So I'd look for a coach, who can also do an initial evaluation.

Coach selection should include more than 1 recommendation and, ideally, video capability. Weed out the "wannabe coaches" and find the real thing.

 

[M47 Dragon]

If you were in my shoes, what would your next move be?

And I am pretty darn serious. I really wish I could get some evaluations though, because I don't know if I am really decent or not!

My advice would be to continue to shoot as many local matches as you can in your current division (or whichever you feel most comfortable) and then give some major matches a try. Where you place should start giving you some idea as to how good you are.

I shoot IDPA mostly, and am very average if not below. After shooting local matches for almost a year, I gave a state championship match a try - finished middle of the pack, but just the fact that I took part in a major match made me a better shooter.

 

[Diamondback6]

I know I'm gonna get flamed as an "Ayoob Fanboy", but you might take a look at the Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery for some ideas to consider and try out. I know a lot of the ideas there helped me learn to control first a full-auto Thompson and then my 1911... (Weird, huh, learning how to shoot a pistol using an SMG?)

 

[another okie]

There are some competiton training videos, and also competition handgun courses. You need to distinguish the tactical, self-defense handgun courses from the competition ones.

As far as division, I agree with the "whatever you're best at" crowd.

It seems to me as if most of the women I see shooting shoot either production or open, so maybe there would be less competition in Limited 10 or single stack.

 

[neededausername]

I just went to my first match in a completely different discipline. I shot pistol silhouette and I had a great time. I eventually want to shoot IDPA and the other fast fire matches, but I want to learn to hit the target first. So until I really know what I'm doing with my gun it's going to be silhouette plates. After that....who knows. I know the sport isn't for everyone but it helps me learn and master the basics first.

 

[testar77]

I know the sport isn't for everyone but it helps me learn and master the basics first.

If you really want to learn and master the basics, Shoot Bullseye!! We have a few people that shoot other discipline's eg. speedsteel, falling plates etc... that stop by and shoot some Bullseye when they start struggling with their respective sport, as it forces you to get back to the basics of focus/concentration, proper trigger squeeze, etc... So if you Really want to learn great technique, I would recommend giving Bullseye a try.

Toby

 

[TraderJack]

Since you're already in Single Stack, I'd stay right there until you achieve your Masters card. When you can say you shoot Master level in Single Stack, people will begin to notice you. Jumping around to different divisions is not recommended for an 'eager beaver' unless you just want the experience of shooting a different gun(Limited/Open).

Get the techniques down pat. Get your Masters card before you branch out to other divisions. Then try for Master level in all the divisions you want. And, of course then try for Grand Master!

As for sponsors, when you achieve Master level, you might approach a local business like a local sporting goods store or gun smith that specializes in USPSA customs. Start small and think BIG.

Good Luck!

 

[3 gun]

What do you do well? What causes you to struggle? You need to pick your division with these in mind. Fast runner? Avoid revolver, constant reloads slows everyone down and takes away from your strength. Weak hand eye coordination when under stress? Avoid divisions that need a lot of reloading on the move, think Limited or Open. Poor eye sight? Iron sight divisions might not be best, think Open, Limited or Limited 10. They allow optics or open sights other than notch and post. Small hands or weak grip? Think minor power factors or divisions that allow grip mods. Regardless of which division you go into remember you are the difference. TGO could beat us with a bone stock SA pulled from the rack. Perfect basics and working to his strengths make him great, not the equipment.

The most important thing is that you enjoy what you are doing and set realistic goals. Build good basics and you will save yourself 99% of the trouble most find. Don't worry about gear or how any body else does a stage. I've watched five GM's in the same division shoot the same stage five different ways, all within a percentage of each other.

When you practice, make it work. Don't fire a round till you hit your goal. Break you practice into what can bring you the biggest benefit. Keep records of what you do and how often. Get a timer, this is no time to be guessing. Everyone loves a sub 1 sec draw but that won't help your score nearly as much as nailing your reloads or moving with your pistol in or close to a firing position. Good foot work and a clear plan will score better than a blazing draw and 1/4sec splits that are all "C's". Know that 85% of what you need to master doesn't require a shot to be fired.

Make the match fun. It is not the time to try something new. Stay with what you know. Save the review till the match is over. Your mind is clear in the box and the last or next stage doesn't exist.

Remember to have fun. Make new friends. Don't just go to USPSA shoots. Try IDPA, Steel, Bullseye and even IHMSA. You may not have the ideal pistol but you'll have fun and you just might learn something. After a IHMSA match head shots at 15 yards looks like a billboard.

 

[Navy joe]

I'll 15th the you're too early for a sponsor. I'll go to the other side and say I watched Daniel Horner before he was famous and he got sponsorships very quickly but then again he started winning at national events very quickly. I also introduced a 15 year old to USPSA and he was sponsored by STI within the year, but then again, the manner I got him introduced made him a shooting buddy and match tag-along to a multiple time national champion GM. This story is directly related to my how I found Todd Jarrett a girlfriend story. So maybe the TJ connections had something to do with it. Reload, practice every day, shoot every match and don't worry about the sponsorships. Get good and start looking at the contingency money companies like STI pay for winning at major matches. That will be your quickest pay-off.

 

[Ankeny]

If I were in your shoes I would network with the top lady shooters and pick their brains. For starters, try the women's forum at Brian Enos' web site.

 

[eerw]

+1 on Ankeny..

get on the phone and talk with Julie Goloski ( Smith and Wesson ), Jessie Abbatte ( Glock ), Kay Clark Mickulek (Clark Custom), Lisa Munson (SV).

talk with them..go to the Ladies camp that Kay run in conjunction with all these women.

any chance you are junior?? great opportunities for a junior shooter with goals and determination.


just information

Jessie Abbate

Julie Goloski

Lisa Munson