"Illegal guns"
- Thread starter sgist
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rainbowbob
Member
I believe he is referring to the fact that some fireams are being illegally smuggled into Mexico. Presumably, once they got there, they would be "illegal guns".
simulatedjim
Member
They can stop the guns when they stop the drugs......Yeah never happen.
jnyork
Member
As if you have to ask!!
rainbowbob
Member
No offense, but what YOU feel HE feels is irrelevant. Watever else you may think of him, the Pres is at least smart enough to know that a gun isn't illegal unless it is purchased or sold illegally, or does not meet the legal specifications of the country in which it is bought or sold.
well, since they are usually straw purchased, I'd say that makes it an illegal gun. I'm assuming the term is made in order to save them the time from saying "guns that are illegally purchased for criminals to smuggle back to Mexico", or whatever Orwellian definition some people here may come up with.
mg.mikael
Member
Whats Obama's damn problem?! He should me more worried about the flow of illegal drugs and immigrants into America, then the flow of what he calls "illegal" guns into Mexico.
He's the President of AMERICA, not Mexico for crying out loud, so he should start acting like it.
He's the President of AMERICA, not Mexico for crying out loud, so he should start acting like it.
miconoakisland
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- 66
Illegal guns are legal guns until they pass the border to Mexico.
Legal guns in the hands of illegals are still legal guns. It's just illegal for an illegal person to have a legal gun.
There is no such thing as an illegal gun. Only illegal for a person to possess a type of gun. A man may possess a legal gun illegally, but he cannot legally possess an illegal gun.
The possessor of a gun is either legal or illegal, not the gun.
Every firearm is slave to the will of the possessor. The firearm has no choice as to the intentions of the user.
Show me a tool that refuses to maim a human and I'll show you a sun that has a shady beach.
Legal guns in the hands of illegals are still legal guns. It's just illegal for an illegal person to have a legal gun.
There is no such thing as an illegal gun. Only illegal for a person to possess a type of gun. A man may possess a legal gun illegally, but he cannot legally possess an illegal gun.
The possessor of a gun is either legal or illegal, not the gun.
Every firearm is slave to the will of the possessor. The firearm has no choice as to the intentions of the user.
Show me a tool that refuses to maim a human and I'll show you a sun that has a shady beach.
We're trying to establish the technical definition of "illegal gun".
But I don't think the President cares about the technical definition. It's all a sound bite to make him appear concerned about and involved in the preceived problems of America.
Of course, it surely helps him take the focus off the fact that he's struggling with bigger problems.
But I don't think the President cares about the technical definition. It's all a sound bite to make him appear concerned about and involved in the preceived problems of America.
Of course, it surely helps him take the focus off the fact that he's struggling with bigger problems.
Brian Dale
Member
I'd say that the "illegal guns" to worry about in Mexico are those that are stolen for, or sold to, narcotraficantes and other gangs -- from the Mexican Army.
I'm sure that some ordinary firearms are sold illegally to Mexican criminals, and that's what they're talking about. I expect that the number of these guns has to be extraordinarily small in proportion to the fuss that's being raised.
Sounds like a purposeful distraction or a pretense, to me.
I'm sure that some ordinary firearms are sold illegally to Mexican criminals, and that's what they're talking about. I expect that the number of these guns has to be extraordinarily small in proportion to the fuss that's being raised.
Sounds like a purposeful distraction or a pretense, to me.
Zach S
Member
While watching 300 in the theater, I think I came close to getting asked to leave. While the Spartans were standing in front of the wall of dead Persians, I said "why cant border patrol do that?" I wasn't very quiet about it, and neither were the numerous people that agreed with me.
Duke of Doubt
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To give the Obamanation its due, we really do have a "situation" brewing down south. America can no longer support Mexico via illegal migrant lawnmowers and nannies, and the maquilladoras are dead, so the top is coming off the pot. We don't want anarchy down there. Last time that happened, Pancho Villa destroyed Columbus. Some of you might have noticed that several Army combat brigades are moving, permanently, from Germany and Korea to the American southwest. This isn't an accident.
TCB in TN
Member
I think that would make it an illegal purchase, not an illegal gun!
"No offense, but what YOU feel HE feels is irrelevant. Watever else you may think of him, the Pres is at least smart enough to know that a gun isn't illegal unless it is purchased or sold illegally, or does not meet the legal specifications of the country in which it is bought or sold."
You are absolutely right , and I stand corrected. This is not about feelings. It's about a new term that I have been hearing the past two weeks repeated over and over numerous times when the attorney general and cabinet members, and others in the liberal establishment speak about the gun problem in America and how it contributes to the Mexican drug cartel violence. Even the Mexican government is blaming their problems on the easy access of guns in America and the need for gun control- in America.
You are absolutely right , and I stand corrected. This is not about feelings. It's about a new term that I have been hearing the past two weeks repeated over and over numerous times when the attorney general and cabinet members, and others in the liberal establishment speak about the gun problem in America and how it contributes to the Mexican drug cartel violence. Even the Mexican government is blaming their problems on the easy access of guns in America and the need for gun control- in America.
Hmmmm........
Seems to me that the possession and use of any weapon, up to
And including thermonuclear devices, is subject to various
Permissions and permits.
Look at the present USA/India/Pakistan/ North Korea/Iran flap.
Cutting to the chase here,
There is no such thing as an illegal weapon,
Unless you avoid the appropriate ceremonies to
Appease, and pay, the appropriate Gummint entities.
You can use the same argument for "criminal" behavior,
I'm sad to say.
It is a licensing issue on either side.
Who licensed AIG?
"To live outside the law you must be honest."
-Bob Dylan-
Isher
Seems to me that the possession and use of any weapon, up to
And including thermonuclear devices, is subject to various
Permissions and permits.
Look at the present USA/India/Pakistan/ North Korea/Iran flap.
Cutting to the chase here,
There is no such thing as an illegal weapon,
Unless you avoid the appropriate ceremonies to
Appease, and pay, the appropriate Gummint entities.
You can use the same argument for "criminal" behavior,
I'm sad to say.
It is a licensing issue on either side.
Who licensed AIG?
"To live outside the law you must be honest."
-Bob Dylan-
Isher
rickomatic
Member
IBTL
Here's my theory. And it's just as valid as all the rest, and probably more accurate than "The One's" theory.
It is a well known fact that the government of Mexico will NOT supply the BATF with the serial #'s of all those "illegal" guns. I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that the majority of those guns did NOT come accross the border except for perhaps in a government to government military sale. I bet most of those guns have been stolen either from the Mexican police or Military, or come from the police and military via the black market. Afterall, they are for the most part talking about full autos. At least that's the panic the media is portraying.
My $ .02
Here's my theory. And it's just as valid as all the rest, and probably more accurate than "The One's" theory.
It is a well known fact that the government of Mexico will NOT supply the BATF with the serial #'s of all those "illegal" guns. I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that the majority of those guns did NOT come accross the border except for perhaps in a government to government military sale. I bet most of those guns have been stolen either from the Mexican police or Military, or come from the police and military via the black market. Afterall, they are for the most part talking about full autos. At least that's the panic the media is portraying.
My $ .02
LibShooter
Member
Can't we stop splitting hairs here? Morphine administered by a doctor is a legal drug. Morphine cooked into heorin and sold on the street is an illegal drug.
An AR-15 sold in a gun store in Virginia is a legal gun. The same rifle smuggled into Juarez against Mexican law and used by drug dealers to kill law enforcement officers is an illegal gun. Why would we want to sound like we're defending this?
An AR-15 sold in a gun store in Virginia is a legal gun. The same rifle smuggled into Juarez against Mexican law and used by drug dealers to kill law enforcement officers is an illegal gun. Why would we want to sound like we're defending this?
rickomatic
Member
No one here is defending anything. What I'm upset about is yet another instance of good honest law abiding gun owners being made the fall guy for Mexico's problem. I stand by my last post. There is NOT a huge number of "illegal" or otherwise guns being straw purchased and smuggled over the border in vast quantities. I still contend that those guns are coming from someplace else. "The One" just wants to look like he's doing something again. And it's too hard to do the real work. Instead, find a fall guy................us.
Because Obama is blaming Mexico's drug war on American gun owners. He is making an atrocious claim that American's are supplying Mexicans with gun. The truth of the matter is , that the Mexican drug cartels have enough weapons to take over many towns in Texas and around USA, even with all the guns we have. THey have military aand police equipment. They have grenades, rocket launchers, RPGS, explosives, fully auto machine guns, body armor. It is the corrupt military, police and even politicians who are supporting the Mexican cartel. The CHiense and Russians also probably have very few condolensces for supplying illegal weapons to people who have a fat wallet.
Obama could care less about Mexico, what he wants is to remove our guns from us, so he can have ultimate authority and power over the American people. His cousin, Odinga in Kenya tried to do the same thing in Africa. Except, Kibaki the other politician cut off his power before he could gain control of the government. I guess corrupt governments can have advantages at time, especially when keep out a more evil and corrupt government.
All I have to say is hold on folks. I can see some power plays coming in our future and I don;t think we will like it. I just feel some ground work is being laid here for future changes in law that will effect us all.
But then maybe I am just being to concerned and paranoid.
Chris
Here are a few recent quotes from USA Today.
" In a radio Interview today, a leading Mexican publisher talks about how U.S. guns and gun laws contribute to the escalating drug-cartel violence south of the border, where gun laws are strict. He also agrees with Attorney General Eric Holder that Mexico's violent drug cartels constitute a "national security threat" to the United States. "
" Today, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence released a report (pdf) about "how America's lack of effective gun laws is helping to create a regional security risk and costing Mexican and American citizens their lives. "
But then maybe I am just being to concerned and paranoid.
Chris
Here are a few recent quotes from USA Today.
" In a radio Interview today, a leading Mexican publisher talks about how U.S. guns and gun laws contribute to the escalating drug-cartel violence south of the border, where gun laws are strict. He also agrees with Attorney General Eric Holder that Mexico's violent drug cartels constitute a "national security threat" to the United States. "
" Today, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence released a report (pdf) about "how America's lack of effective gun laws is helping to create a regional security risk and costing Mexican and American citizens their lives. "
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