danurve
Member
How the frik long do you think it took him to get back into the country?
About as long as it takes to get past the drive-through at McDonnalds.
About as long as it takes to get past the drive-through at McDonnalds.
Illegal Immigration-How to fix it?
- Thread starter garyk/nm
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Desertdog
Member
IMO there is seveal levels of immigrants, regardless of where they are from. Each should be handled appropriately for their circumstances.
1) Legal immigrants that follow the rules. Welcome to the USA.
2) Illegal immigrants that actually provide for themselves, has been trying to learn English, and has been assimilating to USA norms since they arrived; give them a chance to become legal.
3) Migrant farm workers that want to work the season and then go back home. Let the American Consulate, in their home country; give them a permit to travel to the USA to work. Make sure they go back home until the next season.
4) Immigrant free loaders, lawbreakers and trouble makers should be deported as soon as possible.
1) Legal immigrants that follow the rules. Welcome to the USA.
2) Illegal immigrants that actually provide for themselves, has been trying to learn English, and has been assimilating to USA norms since they arrived; give them a chance to become legal.
3) Migrant farm workers that want to work the season and then go back home. Let the American Consulate, in their home country; give them a permit to travel to the USA to work. Make sure they go back home until the next season.
4) Immigrant free loaders, lawbreakers and trouble makers should be deported as soon as possible.
Thefabulousfink
Member
Mabey we should just force him to drive across the border, drunk, with the drugs and the gun. Then the Mexican Authorities can arrest him and put him in Mexican jail. And if the Authorities won't arrest him I am sure we can find a few to bribe (it is cheeper than paying for a prison cell).
Fletchette
Member
Damages are the money and time it took to comply with immigration laws.
real_name
member
But that wasn't 'damage', I chose to pursue that goal and knew full well that it would take time and money.
I agree fully that illegals should not be allowed to get around the legal requirements, I am more annoyed than most people can imagine by the whole situation. But I don't think the answer is to sue the US government, maybe the Mexican government for encouraging them but not the US.
I would prefer to volunteer my services as an informant, identifying any and all illegals I ever come across. Once we have an enforced penalty program that is though.
I agree fully that illegals should not be allowed to get around the legal requirements, I am more annoyed than most people can imagine by the whole situation. But I don't think the answer is to sue the US government, maybe the Mexican government for encouraging them but not the US.
I would prefer to volunteer my services as an informant, identifying any and all illegals I ever come across. Once we have an enforced penalty program that is though.
Waitone
Member
Actually, I think a couple of suits are winding their way through the system now. My memory reminds me one suit is using RICO charges against an employer.
Fletchette
Member
Sure it was. Legal immigrants spent thousands of dollars each because they were told they needed to do so in order to become citizens. Now, it turns out, all they had to do was walk across the border illegally and receive amnesty.
real_name
member
I am a legal immigrant, soon to be citizen.
It doesn't 'damage' me that they live here illegally and might get an amnesty.
Sure, it annoys me more than I can convey but in my book annoyance isn't sufficient grounds for litigation.
It doesn't 'damage' me that they live here illegally and might get an amnesty.
Sure, it annoys me more than I can convey but in my book annoyance isn't sufficient grounds for litigation.
crazed_ss
Member
That isnt even the issue.
The correct answer is: STOP GIVING ILLEGALS JOBS
The correct answer is: STOP GIVING ILLEGALS JOBS
ken grant
Member
BORDERS
Control the borders NOW!!!!!!!!!! Nothing else will work until this is done.
Control the borders NOW!!!!!!!!!! Nothing else will work until this is done.
308win
Member
We need to make this Mexico's problem as well.
1. Reduce any foreign aid we give them by the amount of money the illegals send to Mexico.
2. Progressively shut off the flow of water to Mexico in rivers originating in the US.
3. Abrogate the NAFTA treaty at least as it relates to Mexico.
4. Deny Mexican trucks rights to use US highways.
1. Reduce any foreign aid we give them by the amount of money the illegals send to Mexico.
2. Progressively shut off the flow of water to Mexico in rivers originating in the US.
3. Abrogate the NAFTA treaty at least as it relates to Mexico.
4. Deny Mexican trucks rights to use US highways.
Waitone
Member
It happens a number of RICO related suits are working throught the system.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_13/b3977087.htm
http://www.vdare.com/fulford/lawsuit.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,169970,00.html
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/021406dnbusRicosuit.d1aef3f.html
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1122541509823
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_13/b3977087.htm
http://www.vdare.com/fulford/lawsuit.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,169970,00.html
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/021406dnbusRicosuit.d1aef3f.html
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1122541509823
I think illegal imigration is an issue. I don't think we are looking at the right aspect of immigration however. Illegal immigrants are taking American jobs at the lower end. I don't think thats an issue.
The real problem we have is that businesses in this country are moving outside our shores to get cheaper labor. I do not believe this country has a manufacturing base anymore. Even chemical industries are moving out (one of the few manufacturers we have left).
From the standpoint of a manufacturer, why hire Americans? Seriously! If you can open manufacturing centers around the world which will operate outside of this country for a much better profit, why stop? Inside this country the manufacturer can hire skilled foreign workers at lower wages. These are not unskilled laborors. They are highly educated and highly motivated. They will work for lower wages for the same output.
These same people are not low paid farm workers. The middle class of this country is not being threatened by farm workers. They are being threatened by the educated workers of India and China (among others).
In all reality, what manufacturing is left in the U.S.? Every manufacturer with half a brain is leaving U.S. shores. The cost of employing U.S. workers compared to offshore workers is too high. Pensions are being eradicated. This is a fact. We can not compete.
No level of immigration reform is going to change that. The immigration issue is a red herring. We have deeper problems. I am not sure what the solution to that is. I suspect the only solution is that we will have to accept lower wages (and we have no say in that). China, India, Taiwan, etc... can outcompete us. Imigration is not the problem.
We must somehow take back our manufacturing base. Our current trade balance is only a berometer of that. The issue is much more than migrant workers (i.e. Mexicans). If we concentrate on that we will miss the larger issue.
-Shadizar
P.S. History notes that only countries in decline, or with economic problems focus on immigration issues to solve their problems.
The real problem we have is that businesses in this country are moving outside our shores to get cheaper labor. I do not believe this country has a manufacturing base anymore. Even chemical industries are moving out (one of the few manufacturers we have left).
From the standpoint of a manufacturer, why hire Americans? Seriously! If you can open manufacturing centers around the world which will operate outside of this country for a much better profit, why stop? Inside this country the manufacturer can hire skilled foreign workers at lower wages. These are not unskilled laborors. They are highly educated and highly motivated. They will work for lower wages for the same output.
These same people are not low paid farm workers. The middle class of this country is not being threatened by farm workers. They are being threatened by the educated workers of India and China (among others).
In all reality, what manufacturing is left in the U.S.? Every manufacturer with half a brain is leaving U.S. shores. The cost of employing U.S. workers compared to offshore workers is too high. Pensions are being eradicated. This is a fact. We can not compete.
No level of immigration reform is going to change that. The immigration issue is a red herring. We have deeper problems. I am not sure what the solution to that is. I suspect the only solution is that we will have to accept lower wages (and we have no say in that). China, India, Taiwan, etc... can outcompete us. Imigration is not the problem.
We must somehow take back our manufacturing base. Our current trade balance is only a berometer of that. The issue is much more than migrant workers (i.e. Mexicans). If we concentrate on that we will miss the larger issue.
-Shadizar
P.S. History notes that only countries in decline, or with economic problems focus on immigration issues to solve their problems.
Desertdog
Member
Wages are only part of the problem. Enviorimental rules and regulations, and healtcare insurance cost, are big problems. Federal and State Government laws and taxes are the biggest problems.
No wonder they are leaving for places out of the country.
Here is an example of what can happen when goverment is not in the way. The Empire State Building, for years the tallest building in the US, took 18 months from idea to completion. For a project like that; how long would it take for the Enviormental Impact Report to be completed today?
real_name
member
longeyes
member
The law--what a concept!
beerslurpy
member
I was going to say something about all human beings having a natural right to have guns for their defense, but that was before I read about the cocaine and the army base and the drunk driving.
Why didnt they just shoot him? I mean, technically it is against the law, but why not just go for a hat trick and break the few laws he missed?
Why didnt they just shoot him? I mean, technically it is against the law, but why not just go for a hat trick and break the few laws he missed?
Roadkill Coyote
Member
Notice the important part
He will be charged, so statute of limitations doesn't run out, and the warrant will remain in the computer so that IF he recovers and comes back, he can still be thrown in jail.
They just don't want to put his hospital bill on the local taxpayers.
He will be charged, so statute of limitations doesn't run out, and the warrant will remain in the computer so that IF he recovers and comes back, he can still be thrown in jail.
They just don't want to put his hospital bill on the local taxpayers.
Cosmoline
Member
I have the solution. Take his car, his gun, his coke and his clothes. Leave him naked on the street. No bills, plus the government gets to sell his stuff for cash money. The state is under no duty to assist anyone unless they're taken into custody. So if he's just going to be kicked loose anyway, why bother taking him into custody?
Thats what I was trying to get at. Wages for low cost workers are not the issue. Middle America is suffering from far greater problems. How many people here are competing with a <$5/hour salary? Its the engineers and computer specialists that we have to worry about. Not the cherry pickers...
Yet we are being corraled to think that the low cost workers are the threat. What threat are they to the middle class?
-Shadizar
Roadkill Coyote
Member
Well, if they were going to give him due process before taking his property (and we all think seizure of property with out it is a bad thing, right?) Then they might as well go ahead and charge him. We, the taxpayers would end up paying the hospital bill anyway. Besides, the truck is going to end up impound until it gets sold, and the gun will be in evidence from now on. So he DID lose his stuff, and he's getting kicked out of the country.
Cosmoline
Member
They don't have to arrest him in order to take his stuff, esp. if there's a big bag of coke in his car. I very much doubt he had the requisite insurance, for example. The obligation to treat wounds only comes into play once an arrest is made. Otherwise they can let him lie there with broken legs. They just don't have the guts to do it.
Roadkill Coyote
Member
First, the ambulance is gonna take him to the hospital anyway, and we are going to end up paying that bill. Second, whose to say that there was a big bag of coke? Can I make that call, as a law enforcement officer, and just take someone's property? Will you trust me to determine the presence of drugs and seize peoples vehicles and weapons WITHOUT due process? I'll pass, thank you very much. It is annoying, and in a perfect world, he'd get jail time here, but this isn't a perfect world.
Waitone
Member
The reason manufacturers leave the US is because barriers to exit have dropped and the reasons for higher employment costs have remained high. We get all bent out of shape over "low wages" paid to illegal immigrants (a real problem) but have no outrage over plantation Uncle Sam is creating in the middle of America. Congress gives us fuss and feathers in appearing to fix one problem yet steadfastly refuses to a>admit there is a problem with fed.gov mandated costs, and b>do anything about the situation.
The US can easily compete. For whatever reason our federal massahs have decided to hobble the US worker with the chains of a leviathan welfare state.
The US can easily compete. For whatever reason our federal massahs have decided to hobble the US worker with the chains of a leviathan welfare state.
The Jobs Americans Wont Do
Professional people all across America have illegal immigrants working for them in some capacity doing the work blue collar Americans won't do anymore. For them illegal immigration is a bonus. The Wall Street Journal talks up the immigration issue and its 20% contribution to wage deflation as a definite plus.
While in the private sector workers such as tradesmen and other taxpayers have their wages sacraficed on the alter of deflation, public employees (teachers, bus drivers, etc.) still strike for more pay. Who do they think pays the freight?
I don’t know how many times I meet legal immigrants driving cabs, etc telling me they were a doctor, engineer, teacher in their old country (usually from Eastern Europe) but that they can’t practice their profession here. Some of them must be qualified to do something like teach math.
So how about it. If it’s such a good thing for the economy to have wage deflation, lets hire immigrants to compete with the "Protected Jobs" for lower pay. Why shouldn’t everyone get to experience the lie "Jobs Americans won’t do anymore?” There must be some good writers who can go to work for the WSJ for less. Some of those doctors and engineers driving cabs must be qualified. City workers forget your strike, we can get it done for less.
Professional people all across America have illegal immigrants working for them in some capacity doing the work blue collar Americans won't do anymore. For them illegal immigration is a bonus. The Wall Street Journal talks up the immigration issue and its 20% contribution to wage deflation as a definite plus.
While in the private sector workers such as tradesmen and other taxpayers have their wages sacraficed on the alter of deflation, public employees (teachers, bus drivers, etc.) still strike for more pay. Who do they think pays the freight?
I don’t know how many times I meet legal immigrants driving cabs, etc telling me they were a doctor, engineer, teacher in their old country (usually from Eastern Europe) but that they can’t practice their profession here. Some of them must be qualified to do something like teach math.
So how about it. If it’s such a good thing for the economy to have wage deflation, lets hire immigrants to compete with the "Protected Jobs" for lower pay. Why shouldn’t everyone get to experience the lie "Jobs Americans won’t do anymore?” There must be some good writers who can go to work for the WSJ for less. Some of those doctors and engineers driving cabs must be qualified. City workers forget your strike, we can get it done for less.
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