Illinois traffic stop while transporting firearms.

[wlemay]

I know that many states have laws requiring persons who are transporting firearms to immediately tell police officers during a traffic stop that they have weapons in the vehicle/on their person.

My question is does Illinois have such a law? In IL you are required to have any firearms you are transporting enclosed in a case, unloaded (ammunition location is not important, you can have loaded mags in the gun case right next to the gun) and the firearm must not be readily accessible.

So lets say you are on your way to the range, you have your rifle in the trunk; its unloaded, in a case, and you have a valid FOID card. You inadvertently are going a little over the speed limit and mr. cop decides to pull you over. Are you legally required to let him know that you have a gun in your car?

I know you have the right to remain silent, and all that good stuff. But let's be realistic, the gun is legally yours, it aint stolen, and you are legal to own/transport it, what do you do? What about if he asks if you have any weapons; is he just asking about illegal weapons? readily accessible weapons? pocket knifes? or the gun you are legally transporting in the trunk of your car?

This has confused me for awhile now... I don't want to tell the cop I have a gun if I don't have too & I really don't want to be detained while he runs the numbers and fondles my property; wasting my time hassling me.

 

[bigfatdave]

why would you volunteer information in the first place?

 

[05FLHT]

Officer - Any guns, knives, bombs, bazookas, or anything else I should know about in your vehicle?

Your response - Officer there is nothing illegal in my vehicle.

Officer - That's not what I asked.

Your response - Officer there is nothing illegal in my vehicle.

 

[NavyLCDR]

There is no legal requirement in Illinois for you to inform the officer of the presence of your guns.

 

[blackDdefense]

Only if he asks do you want to tell him. He didn't pull you over for that but if he wants to search the vehicle it would be a good idea to tell him. Honesty is always the best policy...respect the officer and most likely they will respect you.

 

[leadaddict]

No requirement to do so in IL.

 

[Sam1911]

if he wants to search the vehicle it would be a good idea to tell him

It's also a good idea to understand that him having a random desire to search your vehicle isn't the same thing as having a legally sound justification for doing so. Just because an officer asks, DOESN'T mean you have to give your consent.

At the very least if the officer tells you he wants to search your vehicle, tell him politely that you do not consent to any searches. That informs him clearly that he will need to have some articulable reason to explain why he felt that need (i.e.: a reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime and has a reasonable belief that the person may be armed and presently dangerous).

Sometimes a refusal to consent to a search is enough to get the officer to cease. Sometimes it isn't. Don't try to physically prevent it, but you may file away as much info as possible to add to a complaint later.

He may still search your vehicle, but the fact that he performed a warrant-less search without your consent may help you if you end up in court because of some thing he finds.

If you say, "sure, go ahead, I've got nothing to hide," anything he finds would be admissible. If you say, "no Sir, I don't consent to any searches," he's got a hurdle to get over in explaining how his search was required and legal, and his findings admissible as evidence.

 

[mg.mikael]

As was previously said, no requirement to do so. Though if he does notice the gun case in the back seat and asks about it, your best bet isn't to lie to the officer's face. Simply be polite, tell him your reaching over to get the insurance form etc. when you do so (you don't want him thinking your reaching for a weapon), and again be polite.

Worked for me when I got pulled over going nearly 30 mph over the speed limit, simply got off with a warning and was on my way in less then 5 minutes.

 

[NavyLCDR]

If an officer requests to search my vehicle (other than entry onto a military base) the answer will be no. If he demands that I exit the vehicle, I will exit the vehicle, lock the doors and pocket the keys. Once he obtains the keys from me, he no longer has legal grounds to search the vehicle for weapons without consent because the interior of the vehicle is no longer readily accessible to me to retrieve any weapons because the vehicle is locked and he has possession of the keys.

 

[GRIZ22]

Officer - Any guns, knives, bombs, bazookas, or anything else I should know about in your vehicle?

Your response - Officer there is nothing illegal in my vehicle.

Officer - That's not what I asked.

Your response - Officer there is nothing illegal in my vehicle.

If we shorten the original question to "do you have any weapons in the vehicle" how would you respond? In most jurisdiction lying to a LEO is against the law (18USC1001 in the US Code).

 

[hermannr]

The absolute best is to never do anything that would attract attention to yourself and get you stopped in the first place. Oh yes, know where you are and know where you are going...

Obey all traffic laws, drive the speed limit (not over, not under, calibrate your speedometer with a GPS so you know how fast you actually are going) or whatever the traffic flow is. No California stops, no yellow/red lights wrong turns...nothing...Just go about your business...no reason to stop you, no reason to ask.

Years ago, I was in Chicago, in a rented car, and was about to do something stupid (about to drive down the "wrong" street), a huge black cop and his equally huge partner put their car in front of mine so I could not procede. This huge cop got out of his cruiser and said, you are not from around here are you? I said no, I am here going to school and just taking some special college classes for the next few months.

I was just trying to get to IL5 and the map showed this street as the shortest route. He said, you do not want to go down that street, we don't even go down there...so, as I said earlier...know where you are going and know how to get there, and you most likely will not be stopped.

 

[kk0g]

If we shorten the original question to "do you have any weapons in the vehicle" how would you respond? In most jurisdiction lying to a LEO is against the law (18USC1001 in the US Code).

Very simple solution to that problem............ don't answer the question. The officer has the right to ask you any questions he wants, remember that you also have the right to not answer any questions.

 

[GRIZ22]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRIZ22
If we shorten the original question to "do you have any weapons in the vehicle" how would you respond? In most jurisdiction lying to a LEO is against the law (18USC1001 in the US Code).

Very simple solution to that problem............ don't answer the question. The officer has the right to ask you any questions he wants, remember that you also have the right to not answer any questions.
__________________


You are correct legally but don't you think saying nothing or "I refuse to answer" is going to light up that LEO's radar? I'm not saying it is probable cause so don't go there with this.

 

[mg.mikael]

(about to drive down the "wrong" street)

What do you mean by "wrong" street? Do you mean going the wrong way on a one way street?

 

[kk0g]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRIZ22
If we shorten the original question to "do you have any weapons in the vehicle" how would you respond? In most jurisdiction lying to a LEO is against the law (18USC1001 in the US Code).

Very simple solution to that problem............ don't answer the question. The officer has the right to ask you any questions he wants, remember that you also have the right to not answer any questions.
__________________


You are correct legally but don't you think saying nothing or "I refuse to answer" is going to light up that LEO's radar? I'm not saying it is probable cause so don't go there with this.

I have no idea if it would light up the officers radar or not but it's a moot point. You said don't go to probable cause - which I agree with you that refusing to answer would not be probable cause - but it ties directly into the situation, the reason he's asking for consent is because he obviously does not have probable cause or he would'nt be asking in the first place.

 

[SpentCasing]

What do you mean by "wrong" street? Do you mean going the wrong way on a one way street?

Pretty sure he means carjacked, beaten, robbed and left for dead "wrong" street.

 

[Onmilo]

You were pulled over for speeding, not for an investigation of illegal transport of firearms right?

There is no requirement here to volunteer any information to a Police Officer not pertinent to the original investigation.

"Any guns knives blackjacks drugs etcetera in the vehicle?"

"That question is not relevent to a speeding violation.
Do you have reason to believe there is?"

"I'll ask the questions here, you answer them."

"Then we are done with this conversation, you may write the ticket and I will be on my way."

Though many will say lawering up is an indication of guilt, if the cop chooses to continue harrassing you, makes you get out of your vehicle, tells you he now has reasonable cause to search your vehicle & you know you are within the parameters of the law.
Let him do what he wants to do.
Note everything including his name, badge, and squad number.

When he releases you, and he will because you are in compliance except for the speeding violation, wish him a nice day drive away and contact your attorney at the earliest.
Let the Lawyer decide if you have a reasonable case of illegal search and detainment.

 

[wlemay]

Officer - Any guns, knives, bombs, bazookas, or anything else I should know about in your vehicle?

Your response - Officer there is nothing illegal in my vehicle.

Officer - That's not what I asked.

Your response - Officer there is nothing illegal in my vehicle.

That was kinda what I was thinking... but it seems like it would cause the sort of hassle I am trying to avoid. In my mind the next response from the cop will be: Sir step slowly out of your vehicle... *pat down*, an array of questions, attempt to search car, I say "I do not consent so any searches," cop- "well what are you trying to hide... Innocent people have nothing to hide." cop- *puts me in cuffs* "calls for back up" threatens me with drug dogs. Assuming dogs come they smell nothing (I think they will always "smell something"... its more up to how bad the handler wants to search you car, he is capable of commanding them to signal.) *car gets searched* *rifle gets found* *more questions* *gun comes up clean* *I get ticket*... big hassle.

I am not saying it will happen just like that but who knows... there are good cops and there are bad cops. You never know what will happen but; I would prefer this scenario not too.

Besides I can honestly say I have never been pulled over in my life, and I have never been in trouble with the law, and plan to try and keep it that way.

 

[Cop Bob]

Being "cute" and verbally quoting law and the Constitution is NO way to win Friends and Influence the Po-Po on a traffic stop...

In the VERY least it will get you a ticket, or three... "Hey those tires are kinda thin there. Kinda like my patience"...

Just man up, engage in a light conversation, you come out with canned, legal remarks, you may make him think you really have something to hide... then out comes the dogs, the rest of the shift... there gonna be mad because they had to get up from a nap, or worse yet lunch... it will not go well for you.. at all...

What we, as shooters, do is not illegal... at all..... don't try and profile like your a drug mule.... or you will get treated like one...

If you don't want him to search the vehicle, get out of the vehicle and meet him up on the curb,,, if you are away from the threat, then he has no reason to go their.. If he won't let you, then stay in the car and play nice...

If you are a CCW, THEN TELL HIM RIGHT OFF... he/she will not fear you, if anything they will respect you.. the mere presence of that CCW permit is state issued proof that you are NOT a bad guy...

If you are headed to the Range,, tell him.. he won't bite you... " Sorry officer, I was running late to meet some buddies down at the range, was running a little late and had my head up my"... you get the picture....

They are NOT all out to get you... unless you really want them too... But that is up to you... it's not so much what you say, but how you say it...

I have put literally 1000's of people in jail in my lifetime.... I would venture to say that 95% of them arrested themselves... by NOT knowing when to shut up, or by being too smart for their own good.....

 

[NavyLCDR]

I have put literally 1000's of people in jail in my lifetime.... I would venture to say that 95% of them arrested themselves... by NOT knowing when to shut up, or by being too smart for their own good.....

And THAT is EXACTLY what we are trying to AVOID!

If you are a CCW, THEN TELL HIM RIGHT OFF... he/she will not fear you, if anything they will respect you.. the mere presence of that CCW permit is state issued proof that you are NOT a bad guy...

My CPL and my lawfully carried firearm have absolutely NO RELEVANCE in a traffic stop for speeding or running a stop sign and there is absolutely no reason for me to cause it to be in the least bit relevant in a state that does not require me to inform.

 

[GRIZ22]

I have no idea if it would light up the officers radar or not but it's a moot point. You said don't go to probable cause - which I agree with you that refusing to answer would not be probable cause - but it ties directly into the situation, the reason he's asking for consent is because he obviously does not have probable cause or he would'nt be asking in the first place.
__________________


Okay we are going from one issue, answering questions, to getting a consent search. Really two different issues. I think everyone here if put in the LEO's shoes might feel something was wrong if someone refused to answer a question. I'm not saying consent to any search but if you are

There is no requirement here to volunteer any information to a Police Officer not pertinent to the original investigation.

The LEO determines what's being investigated not you. He really doesn't have to tell the real reaon he stopped you. It could be a car like yours was involved in some crime and the LEO is playing dumb by saying it was for a MV violation.

Being "cute" and verbally quoting law and the Constitution is NO way to win Friends and Influence the Po-Po on a traffic stop...

In the VERY least it will get you a ticket, or three... "Hey those tires are kinda thin there. Kinda like my patience"...

Cop Bob has it correct. The cop doesn't want to waste his time hearing your quoting the Constitution. He knows what it says and if he didn't he wouldn't be a cop very long. Cops are not evil orges tryiing to make you look guilty. There are bad cops sure but there are also a lot more bad people and that's what cops are being paid to do, find the bad people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cop Bob
I have put literally 1000's of people in jail in my lifetime.... I would venture to say that 95% of them arrested themselves... by NOT knowing when to shut up, or by being too smart for their own good.....

And THAT is EXACTLY what we are trying to AVOID!

Being a wise ass is no way to win friends and influence people. Many criminals have gotten away because when they were stopped by police they were cordial and answered questions.

As far as being too smart for your own good, in many states the officer has a option to issue a summons or arrest for a MV violation. Your car can be towed and an inventory search can be done. I know of this happening to people who played smartass, they weren't doing anything wrong but preferred to try the bust the LEOs chops.

 

[Shadow 7D]

And griz, tow the wrong person and the chief will have you groveling so the department doesn't have to pay out, just because you may be able to doesn't make it legal.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Being a wise ass is no way to win friends and influence people. Many criminals have gotten away because when they were stopped by police they were cordial and answered questions.

I am not advocating or suggesting being a wise ass. What I am suggesting is keeping your mouth shut about something that has nothing to do with the traffic stop. That's all.

Cop does not ask if there guns in the car:
I'm keeping my mouth shut about guns in the car in Washington state. It's none of his business and it's not relevant to the traffic stop.

Cop asks if there are guns in the car:
Answer: Yes, sir. I have a pistol on my belt in a holster and the required CPL because it is loaded.

Answer: Yes, sir, I am transporting unloaded guns locked in the trunk, or in cases in the back seat.

Cop asks me to exit the vehicle:
Case #1 above, I exit the vehicle, locking the doors behind me and pocketing the keys. He can do whatever he wants to with the gun on my belt and if he seizes the gun "for officer safety" and we will sort it out in court why he felt I was both armed AND DANGEROUS when I told him about both the gun and my permit when he asked and gave him no other indications of anything other than compliance.

Case #2 above, I exit the vehicle, locking the doors behind me and pocketing the keys. IF he obtains the keys from me, he no longer has any legal basis to search the vehicle without my consent or without a search warrant because there is no longer any possibility that I could have ready access to weapons in the vehicle. He isn't going to get my consent, and refusal to give consent to a search is not a legal basis for a search warrant.

Nothing smarta$$ about any of that. It's simply keeping your mouth shut about something that is none of the officer's business and is of no relevance to the situation.

 

[GRIZ22]

And griz, tow the wrong person and the chief will have you groveling so the department doesn't have to pay out, just because you may be able to doesn't make it legal.


What I described was totally legal where I worked. Anyone can complain and the chief couldn't make anyone grovel for soing something like that where I worked.

ps A plus for police unions is they keep local politics out of the job.

 

[kingpin008]

Your car can be towed and an inventory search can be done.

It can? Please cite the relevant law that allows police to confiscate property because an individual refuses to answer questions. Sounds like illegal search & seizure to me.

I know of this happening to people who played smartass, they weren't doing anything wrong but preferred to try the bust the LEOs chops.

So by your own admission, this was something the cops would do to punish a motorist who didn't "toe the line" and answer their questions the way they wanted them answered. Seems pretty close to harassment.