I'm Rethinking Mouseguns.

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Phydeaux642

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I was off of work yesterday and had to run some errands including stopping by the bank, and I left the house with a Keltec P32 in my pocket. It's been a reliable gun and is extremely easy to carry in the smallest of pockets. I usually carry a 642 in a Mika holster, but I had sweats on (hey, I'm off work and I want to be comfortable) and the P32 works well like this.

Today, I hear that the bank (it's a very small branch) was robbed by a young punk with a shotgun not long after I left. This got me to thinking about what I was carrying and whether or not I feel comfortable with a small caliber. I think I have decided to retire the P32 unless there is just no other option. I know many people think that a .38 is the bare minimum and that's okay because I feel real comfortable with the one that I carry.

Now, I'm no hero and am not looking to be, but if I would have been just a little bit later to the bank I would have found myself in the middle of a bad situation. Would I have done something? I don't have any idea. I do know that after I found out about the robbery, I felt that I may have been under gunned. I know that shot placement is everything, but a bigger hole can't hurt (or maybe I should say a bigger hole would hurt more).
 
I think I'd feel undergunned with my .45 since the bad guy had a shotgun....
 
Think officer's size 1911
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That just wouldn't work well with the way I dress (casual slacks with a shirt tucked in). I'm, shall we say, full figured and I have to reach to get things off of shelves and bend over quite a bit during the day and my shirt never stays tucked in to hide a tuckable holster.
 
Something to ponder...

Had you taken the time to change out of your sweats and into pants with a belt for your full sized carry, then you may have very well been right in the middle of that robbery. Things happen (or don't happen) for a reason.
 
Cover your retreat with fire!!
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... and nothing says that like a flamethrower!:p
Seriously though: You would be hard pressed to have carried comfortably anything adequate for defense in that situation. Maybe a snubby .44 Mag?
 
I don't think it's too much of an issue. If you unload a clip of .32 into somebody, and you're accurate, you're going to ruin their day. Personally, the absolute minimum I'll carry is 9mm, or .38 spl. hollowpoint. But you can get the job done with .32. Better than nothing. And if you're blasting away at the guy with a shotgun, his accuracy won't be optimal.
 
That just wouldn't work well with the way I dress (casual slacks with a shirt tucked in). I'm, shall we say, full figured and I have to reach to get things off of shelves and bend over quite a bit during the day and my shirt never stays tucked in to hide a tuckable holster.
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Some people have to dress to the gun. I know that ain't what you want to hear but it is still true. When I started carrying something other than a NAA I had to switch pants, I didn't like it but such it life. I had to ask myself "What do I want more, to be armed or to be comfortable?" with time I have adapted and I am now comfortably armed.

Carrying a weapon is a responsibility that will sometimes force you to change thing you would rather not. Such is life.

I also think you have a legitimate concern about being underpowered. I would recommend something bigger than a 32 for a carry weapon. I like stuff that begins with the number 4, but that is just me.
 
My Keltec P32 has resided in the safe for a very, very long time now. I bought it many years ago and loved the small, flat, and light little sucker.

I didn't love the super long and mushy trigger pull, the "sights" and the horrid accuracy.

Then . . . there's that anemic little light weight .32 caliber round . . .

I've been a deer hunter for many years ago, and I've seen amazing things sometimes when a deer is shot with a really powerful round and appears to not even be shot . . . then running off to bled out much later.

So, today my minimum CCW gun is a 15 oz. S&W Model 37 Airweight in .38 Spl. It has a great trigger, "OK" sights that I can still get good accuracy with (a little over an inch at ten yards, and about 2 1/2 5-shot groups at 25 yards. Thus, I have great confidence with that little gun.

I call it my "always" gun and when my wife and I went downtown tonight for an Italian dinner, it was in my front pocket in its pocket holster. Now since we would be downtown after dark and I'd be wearing a light coat, I also wore a belt slide holster on my belt which held a S&W Model 19 2 1/2" barreled .357 Magnum.

The S&W snubbie is so light and concealable, there's no need for something "smaller" that is so much less adequate.

PS: ALWAYS keep in mind, when you encounter trouble like a shotgunner robbing a bank you are in, that you are NOT under any obligation to do ANYTHING. Don't pick a fight that you are not sure you can win. If you'd been at the bank and pulled the P32 you'd have almost certainly been killed . . . even if you lucked out and hit the robber with every round the mousegun had in it.
 
shockwave said:
I don't think it's too much of an issue. If you unload a clip of .32 into somebody, and you're accurate, you're going to ruin their day. Personally, the absolute minimum I'll carry is 9mm, or .38 spl. hollowpoint. But you can get the job done with .32. Better than nothing. And if you're blasting away at the guy with a shotgun, his accuracy won't be optimal.
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buts its a shot gun ! dos it really need to be aimed all that optimally? jm.02
 
I don't think the size of the round matters as much as the ability of the user to put shots where they count. In my experience people don't get to be good at using pocket guns. When I used to go to the range i'd grab my 1911 and my MKII and leave the P3AT in the safe. My buddy's naa 32 is the same way, thats why they are belly guns and have crude sights (if any). To me pocket guns are PERSONAL defence weapons.
 
I've been a deer hunter for many years ago, and I've seen amazing things sometimes when a deer is shot with a really powerful round and appears to not even be shot . . . then running off to bled out much later.
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A testament to survival... There's enough anecdotal accounts of people not dying when impaled with large objects in vital areas. I'm not saying one shot stops are a myth, but just that it's not a guarantee... even with bullets that start with a .4:eek:
 
2" snubby in .38 Special +P remains the best compromise if it has to be concealed. 4" barrel otherwise. Fixed sights and 158 gr. LSWCHP +P either way.

Other things are smaller. Other things are stronger. This gets the job done.

William
 
Tactics, if all you have is a wimpy .38 against a shotgun, you're dead, too! You find a corner to hide behind something, you draw your weapon, and you hope the guy doesn't come your way and if he does, you fire for CNS. That would be my first alternative, run and hide behind...hopefully something substantial. Call me a coward, but self defense is not about stopping a crime. Let the pros do that.

I carry a pocket sized 9mm. It's a Kel Tec P11 and it's quite pocketable. I also have a .38. I have a .380, but never carry it. Yeah, I don't think much of the .32. LOL I can put 6 of 8 on 6" plates off hand at 25 yards with that 9 and it spits out 115 grain JHPs at 1268 fps. Yet, it's not much harder to tote than a baby .380 like the P3AT. The PF9 is thinner, too, if that matters, but I don't wear sweats. That ain't a pretty picture. ROFL!

I've been carrying a belt gun this winter since it's been pretty cool and I can wear a vest over it. I'm toting a medium frame 3" .357 magnum in a Hume JIT slide lately and the .38 is in a pocket for back up. Yeah, it works for me! Now, when summer rolls around, I'll breakout the little 9. I don't believe you can carry just one method, or at least I can't. I have to tune my carry to the seasons and to my situation. So, I keep a .22, a .380, a pocket 9, etc all at the ready. They all work 100 percent and I practice with all of 'em. To me, there is no one answer. I'm going to add something else, probably, with my tax return, just haven't figured out what.
 
You win every gunfight you don't attend. Even with a mousegun, a shot or two can buy you time to politely excuse yourself. As sm would say, "use enough shoe."
 
Yeah, I don't think much of the .32. LOL I can put 6 of 8 on 6" plates off hand at 25 yards with that 9 and it spits out 115 grain JHPs at 1268 fps.
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LOL did you see the thread on the police shooting survey LOL they have stats on police shootings and fatalities LOL ROFL and found that most shooting occur at around 6 ft or less LOL and LOL found that fatalities were LOL heaviest in that distance LOL and ROFL there are serious lessons learned here, especially LOL that accuracy is incredibly poor even inside 6 ft ROFL and LOL maybe the point and shoot system LOL is superior in RL applications LOL because that's the time frame you have available - draw LOL and pull the gun up to your chin then point and squeeze fire and empty the gun in the direction LOL of the assailant.
 
I can hit a cigarette pack consistently at 7 yards with my kel-tec pf9. It is a pocket 9. There is also a laser sight you can buy for it that is dead on upon being attached, it doesn't need sighting in at all.
 
Having a license to carry does not make us cops...even if you were inside facing the shotgun, the best choice would be to follow directions unless you were in imminent danger.

Tough to swallow maybe, but the truth.
 
I think I have decided to retire the P32 unless there is just no other option.
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I always thought that was the point of mouseguns in the first place. I own an LCP in .380, but I never consider carrying it as just a normal CCW. Anyone who thinks mouseguns are a serious everyday substitute needs to rethink things. I carry the LCP when I can't carry my Glock. That's why I bought it. I never intended to use it as an everyday thing. I think it's a mistake to carry a mousegun everyday like a standard CCW. But they do serve their purpose in special circumstance.
 
PS: ALWAYS keep in mind, when you encounter trouble like a shotgunner robbing a bank you are in, that you are NOT under any obligation to do ANYTHING. Don't pick a fight that you are not sure you can win. If you'd been at the bank and pulled the P32 you'd have almost certainly been killed . . . even if you lucked out and hit the robber with every round the mousegun had in it.
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agreed. i would not be a hero, taking on a guy with a shotgun, with any handgun. that's a very nice way to die.

in a bank robbery, i'd simply follow directions and only attempt to do something about if i had to. not worth dying over.
 
As long as I'm staying aware of everything I don't feel undergunned. Despite what society would have us believed most people that are up to something at the given time and place DON'T have a stone cold demeanor. Know who everybody is and why they are there. I have no problem walking away, coming back later or going somewhere else if anyone looks the least bit twitchy. Straining the boundaries of the topic I suppose but thats my pair of pennies :)

Also I've wondered since we talk about 380 and below as mouse guns, if that makes the "mid" range 9mm, 38 etc. nutria rats? lol
 
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