I'm SCARED. a pistol is no match for a bomber

[Wiley]

Every one who has become frightened after the London bombings is late. What was your reaction to the FIRST terrorist attack on the WTC in '94? (The start of WWIV? Maybe?)

Eleven minuets is too long for me to be scared let alone eleven years.

 

[yy]

You are right, Wiley:

I confess that I didn't read about the London Bombing until three days afterwards. I was spending all my time in a weekend retreat to study dharma.




To everyone:
Thank you for the kind advice. The most recent crime in London should not alter our state of preparedness and vigil. i call that awareness, others call it condition yellow.

Here's one of the things that kept bugging my mind: the London event forced me to recognize how many times I've deliberately ignore undesirables and how many times these folks have backpacks. I commute through some lousy neighborhoods in south LA and I've developed this sense of ignorance in response to the constant presence of undesirables and the accompanying non-eventful-ness.

that realization forces me to realize that I likely will miss the tell-tale signs of a bomber. So forget engagement. I won't even have a clue to evacuate. there. that's my confession. I might as well be in condition white. Because I've trained myself to watch for potential muggers and to ignore (some) beggars that pretend mental illness. (edit: And now the news report four bombers that seem to blend in with the busy crowd)

Am I now going to get a German Shepard dog and train for bomb detection? And also carry thick Kevlar comforters to shield the blast? (this is only half joking in consternation, I have access to yards and yards of the stuff and I happen to think that German shepards are the cutest, intelligent, personble dogs)


sigh, it's quite hard to practice the dharma regarding life and suffering.

 

[RevDisk]

sigh, it's quite hard to practice the dharma regarding life and suffering.

One can feel compassion for others even when one does what must be done. Dharma means “natural law", but can also mean "protection", as I'm sure you know. Caring more about others than yourself.

Keep studying.

 

[GEM]

CCW may be relevant if we ever face gun based terrorism. The school shootigns are a good model for gun based terrorism and Lott estimates that 30% have had successful intervention by civilians with guns. You may not stop the initial shots but you might mitigate the damage.

You have to be real lucky to stop a bomber with a handgun. You have to be really sure. At the NTI, I had to rescue a buddy from a room and then saw a dude sitting with a bomb vest. I dithered as I overthought that he could be a wrapped up hostage. Then he blew up. Oh, well.

 

[ctdonath]

1. Avoid high-density mass transit. Be self-reliant in all things, including transportation.

2. Be thankful that, by high frequency of CCW, enemies conclude the only way to succeed against us is to kill themselves in the process - greatly reduces the active threats, as few are willing to go that far.

 

[JPM70535]

While the odd of you as a CCW, ever spotting a suicide bomber before he has completed his mission, are slim to none, if there is just that one time, and you nuke the a-- H--- before he collects his virgins, Well, you get the Picture.

What a Rush!

 

[kbarrett]

Not virgins....

While the odd of you as a CCW, ever spotting a suicide bomber before he has completed his mission, are slim to none, if there is just that one time, and you nuke the a-- H--- before he collects his virgins, Well, you get the Picture.

That's not quite right. Said A-- H--- actually gets 70 angry Virginians ... starting with a beating by the ghosts of Washington and Jefferson.....

 

[psyopspec]

".. .one of us could spot a bomber, attempt to approach him..." and get arrested for a hate crime because of the turban he's wearing and get vilified in the NYT for a year then get sued by the bomber's mother because you enraged him so much he blew himself up in the midst of a train load of people.

i think a person on their way to a suicide mission is gonna have some "tells", it is remotely possible someone could be spotted and dealt with.

Does that look like someone who'd be easy to spot? Easy to read "tells" of a terrorist attack that will happen in minutes? Easy to shoot by appearance?

If yes, your sitational awareness is far greater than mine. To me that looks like a guy with a backpack on, which isn't enough cause to pull the trigger. Like others have said, worry about the things you can change, life a lifestyle that balances safety with your own goals.

 

[thorn726]

Does that look like someone who'd be easy to spot? Easy to read "tells" of a terrorist attack that will happen in minutes? Easy to shoot by appearance?

like i SAid REMOTELY. boy, doesn't anyone fully understand english here?
REMOTELY.
it can't hurt to be aware. maybe when those 4 bobmers got together in LOndon they did something suspicious. point is, awareness can't hurt.

RIDICULOUS the lengths some go to to avoid changin ganything about their lives. trying to be aware is too much?

".. .one of us could spot a bomber, attempt to approach him..." and get arrested for a hate crime because of the turban he's wearing and get vilified in the NYT for a year then get sued by the bomber's mother because you enraged him so much he blew himself up in the midst of a train load of people.

uh, ok. carried by 6 or judged by 12- you choose.

why don't you just be like this girl in berkeley-

"i refuse to be afriad, i dont always lock my door, if something is gonna happen, so be it, but it won't happen to me"

hehehh yeah right.

 

[psyopspec]

point is, awareness can't hurt.

Agreed. No one is arguing this.

boy, doesn't anyone fully understand english here?

Your post certainly supports that criticism.

uh, ok. carried by 6 or judged by 12- you choose.

why don't you just be like this girl in berkeley-

"i refuse to be afriad, i dont always lock my door, if something is gonna happen, so be it, but it won't happen to me"

hehehh yeah right.

I didn't mean to indicate a death wish. "Tried by 12 or carried by 6," makes for an interesting cliche, but I think we all know the outcome that would occur if our situational awareness caused us to light someone up for having brown skin and carrying a backpack. Even if the terrorist in the picture had wires coming out of his pocket and was glancing around nervously, that still wouldn't be enough cause to for me to put hand to pistol. Wait for the next train maybe, but that would be the extent of my actions.

There's no need to put words in my mouth or make me out to be some girl in Berkeley (whoever that may have been). Your choice is yours, and mine is mine, but I do know for certain that I lack the x-ray vision that would allow me to point to someone on the subway and say "That guy, right there. He's the one I've got to be watching, what with his blue jeans and his fleece jacket, and that backpack." My point: Some things are not what they seem, but then again some things are. Issues like this are complicated. It takes more than a hunch to draw down on someone, and I'd need more evidence than exists in the picture.

 

[thorn726]

i think this is the problem-

Even if the terrorist in the picture had wires coming out of his pocket and was glancing around nervously, that still wouldn't be enough cause to for me to put hand to pistol

who says you have to whack him???

if you did see that, what, you do nothing at all???

you could watch the guy a minute and point him out to an authority.
you're taking it too far, as though we have to shoot the guy or do nothing.
all i am saying is be aware. most of us on THR probably don't have the privilege of CCW and that isn't even an option.

putting words in your mouth?

To me that looks like a guy with a backpack on, which isn't enough cause to pull the trigger. Like others have said, worry about the things you can change, life a lifestyle that balances safety with your own goals.

again, the problem is you seem to feel "the trigger" is the only option, and you are also saying "worry about the things you can change, "

as if there is nothing we can change, a bomber will not be stopped./

 

[psyopspec]

who says you have to whack him???

if you did see that, what, you do nothing at all???

you could watch the guy a minute and point him out to an authority.

Or, in my case, wait for another train. This isn't even a debate, but it does show all the signs and symptoms of a misunderstanding. The reason my post focused on shoot/no shoot was because previous posts (and the title of the thread) imply that it's pistol v. bomber, trigger/no trigger, fight or flight. The reason I jumped in in the first place was to show that there is a grey area, a middle ground where it's not that simple. Hence my conclusion - l find it best to live life safely (situational awareness) but also in a way that I dictate my own itinerary (no constantly being on edge about suicide bombers).

I'd say we could agree to disagree, but there's really nothing to disagree on. In the end it's about sitational awareness and not mucking it up with too much paranoia (ie - the guy with the backpack is out to blow me up).

 

[thorn726]

yeah i think it just got confused with the shoot or not issue, other than that we appear to be thinknig about the same

 

[yy]

and now for our regularly scheduled programming...

after that slight detour to split hair.



at some point, we (the target of the mass murder-bombers) have to draw a line -- just how far toward paranoia do we go in the name of situational awareness and terrorist prevention. We are not organized nor trained for counter strikes against these cells. About the only thing anyone can do is to profile the would-be attackers and watch as the terrorists/criminals slip through someone who doesn't fit the profile.

I want to point out that most of us (posters to this thread) agree that it's more important to avoid living in fear because a life of fear is no life at all.

 

[thorn726]

after that slight detour to split hair.

hahahahahahahaha

at some point, we (the target of the mass murder-bombers) have to draw a line -- just how far toward paranoia do we go in the name of situational awareness and terrorist prevention. We are not organized nor trained for counter strikes against these cells. About the only thing anyone can do is to profile the would-be attackers and watch as the terrorists/criminals slip through someone who doesn't fit the profile.

well really- seems like folks like us who bother to care, be on THR , etc, are the ones who should do what they can to be the ones who are more aware.

personally , i go this far- by coincidence, i flew SF-NYC 1 month after 9-11.
what could i do? not much, but i kept my eyes OPEN everywhere, profiled the whole darn passenger compartment as best i could.

if i am on BART (commuter train) i am not nervous, but i am looking.

i think all we can really do is instead of just listening to headphones, reading a paper=
look around, scan everyone. i know, many bombers may elude discrimination, but if one doesn't , that's one less.

agian, all of us THR people- probably already doing most of this looking for regular BGs all the time.

there isn't much else.
like for example= changing cars on the train anytime a mid easter gets on-
seems paranoid , but if a ~20 middle eastern guy with a pack gets on and is sweating nervous looking around, i think i would move away and report him.

i know people wanna dispute this but i still think msot people on their way to their death, you get a look in their eyes, something will be very wrong.

me personally, i am fairly skilled at this from having to determine "just how high on what" is the jerk harrassing me, and other social observations, im really into it.
i think that is the type of training avg citizens, especially gun owners who wanna be all "tactical" (yep there it is, TAc!) need to consider.
i dont know what to call it, assesing threats?

i had to do it tonight. HUGE drunk idiot starts the "keep walking"
i have to figure out is this guy that crazy drunk or not.
he was not. heheh. i ended up telling him to check out THR, he claimed to be ex military.

now the big question- What does a bomber do if discovered, or feels threatened he may be discovered?

like we see a suspicious character. follow him a sec- what happens?
try to report him , police approach, what happens?

tough one. they did get that one kid in Israel to NOT blow himself up.
sometimes just bringing bomber into reality convinces him not to bomb.

 

[JohnBT]

You're scared of a few random bombers? You're more likely to get hit by lightning.

Does anybody remember duck & cover drills in elementary school in the 50s? The Russians were going to nuke us back to the dark ages and there was nowhere to hide. I know, they told us to hide under our desks, but we knew it was useless that close to DC. Now that was something for the fearful to obsess over.

John

 

[Sam]

From what I read of the Israeli experience, armed citizens have managed to intercept several bombers. Vigilance on our part can help that indicator.

It's only a matter of time folks. You cannot stop them all but putting a positive face on it and maintaining a winning attitude will hurt their spirit as much as bad press does ours. Another installment in the price of freedom.

Sam

 

[RevDisk]

Does anybody remember duck & cover drills in elementary school in the 50s? The Russians were going to nuke us back to the dark ages and there was nowhere to hide. I know, they told us to hide under our desks, but we knew it was useless that close to DC. Now that was something for the fearful to obsess over.

Uhm. I know this was before my time... but "duck and cover" sounds like it's more indoctrination and psychological reinforcement than anything else. That or sheer stupidity and/or an exercise in futility.

Nero couldn't have done a better job.

 

[ravinraven]

Duck and Cover. I thought that's what DC meant. Washington Duck and Cover.

Yeah. We ducked and covered back in the good old days after we finally got a steel and brick school. The collection of tarpaper shacks we wound up in after the big wooden school burned down the day Hank Williams died weren't "bomb shelter" material.

We ran into the hallways and crouched against the walls with our heads down between our knees. Then we tucked our heads underneath and kissed our asses good-bye. I remember it was more fun to kiss the girl's a,...er,....---never mind.

I had a bit of an attitude problem back then too. I asked, "What Commie in his right mind would waste a bomb on this burg?"

rr