I'll admit, I've been in love with the idea of owning a lever action rifle (probably owning to my fondness to Westerns and such). I've got a local place here that seems to carry a lot in the Marlin range, so I will be shooting over there sometime this week to get some hands on experience with the rifles. I'll keep you guys posted on that, if you care to hear my results.
In Search of My First Rifle.
- Thread starter MattJS
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Well, I guess I'll haul this post out of the dust bin.
Over the last couple of weekends I have done some groundwork to explore my options and see what was locally available. After some research and speaking to local dealers, I have discovered two options which weren't mentioned here, but ones I find attractive.
The first is the Keltc SU-16CA. The second is the Smith and Wesson M&P 15 Sport, a new variant which should price in around 600 dollars. If anyone would like to add their thoughts on these rifles, that would be appreciated.
Over the last couple of weekends I have done some groundwork to explore my options and see what was locally available. After some research and speaking to local dealers, I have discovered two options which weren't mentioned here, but ones I find attractive.
The first is the Keltc SU-16CA. The second is the Smith and Wesson M&P 15 Sport, a new variant which should price in around 600 dollars. If anyone would like to add their thoughts on these rifles, that would be appreciated.
I agree on the Saiga's as well. They just make different calibers. So, you can get a Saiga .223, 7.62x39, .308, 12 guage etc. They are Russian "sporterized" AK's. They are well made, but in their stock form the triggers are fair to weird/bad. AK reliability, good-very good accuracy, reasonable price. You can "convert" them into standard AK configuration with a pistol grip and regular good trigger if you choose to.
AethelstanAegen
Member
+1 to the CMP M1 Garand recommendation. It was my first rifle and I couldn't be happier with my choice. The service grade comes in just under $600.
brnmuenchow
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Saiga 7.62x39mm.
SKS 7.62x39mm
Marlin 336 lever-action .30-30win.
However when the day comes that you can afford a great rifle go with a Winchester model 70. (.300 Win Mag./ .308 win./ .270win.) We use the 7mm.Mag. & .300 Win.Mag. in west Texas quite a bit.(wide open country reasons.)
SKS 7.62x39mm
Marlin 336 lever-action .30-30win.
However when the day comes that you can afford a great rifle go with a Winchester model 70. (.300 Win Mag./ .308 win./ .270win.) We use the 7mm.Mag. & .300 Win.Mag. in west Texas quite a bit.(wide open country reasons.)
Andrew Wyatt
Member
I know you want a centerfire bolt or lever, but I would suggest a bolt action .22 like the CZ, or a ruger.
Make sure its set up with good irons, and you'll have a good foundation for the next gun you get.
Make sure its set up with good irons, and you'll have a good foundation for the next gun you get.
BrocLuno
Member
If you are considering a Kel-Tec SU-16 - read over this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=559476&highlight=su-16
There is a lot of info there. I'll be ordering one this spring as a do-it-all truck gun. It seems to be a very good "new" concept with a lot to offer. The 223 is good for lots of general purpose shooting including mad dogs and coyotes. May not be legal for deer in you area?
There is a lot of info there. I'll be ordering one this spring as a do-it-all truck gun. It seems to be a very good "new" concept with a lot to offer. The 223 is good for lots of general purpose shooting including mad dogs and coyotes. May not be legal for deer in you area?
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Hanzo581
Member
Hmmm, that M&P15 Sport looks pretty interesting with an MSRP of $700.
hirundo82
Member
I think a .357 lever rifle makes a great utility rifle. The ammo (both .357 and .38) is widely available if you don't reload, and recoil is very gentle.
.357mag out of a rifle is a whole different animal compared to a revolver, with some loads approaching .30-30 levels. It is capable of taking any animal on the East Coast within 100 yards, although it is marginal for bear.
.357 is also a great self-defense round, with the added advantage of coming in a "jury-friendly" package as compared to the EBRs.
.357mag out of a rifle is a whole different animal compared to a revolver, with some loads approaching .30-30 levels. It is capable of taking any animal on the East Coast within 100 yards, although it is marginal for bear.
.357 is also a great self-defense round, with the added advantage of coming in a "jury-friendly" package as compared to the EBRs.
Lots of suggestions in this thread, but I have to give a plug for some flavor of lever gun. I've had AKs and SKSs and do have many .22s in various flavors, AR15s, bolt guns and lever guns and of them all I'd have to say that if I was going to classify any of them as a do it all utility rifle, it would have to be one of two lever guns. Either the 30-30 or the .357. If I could only have one, I'd have to lean toward the 30-30. I've found that in most instances, too much is usually better than not enough.
Believe me, I'm a big fan of the .22lr and the firearms that shoot the round, but there are just too many situations wherein a .22 just wouldn't be enough.
Believe me, I'm a big fan of the .22lr and the firearms that shoot the round, but there are just too many situations wherein a .22 just wouldn't be enough.
+1 on the Marlin 1894C in .357. It sounds like it meets your criteria perfectly. And if you have a .357 handgun that just adds to the logic of it. I have an 1894 in .44 Magnum, but for your stated purposes, I would say get the .357. Ammo is reasonable, available, and effective, especially out of a carbine barrel. 2nd choice would be a 336 in .30-30. The main advantage to the 336 is you can often find them used for decent money and the ammo is again reasonable, available, and effective.
Again, I continue to be overwhelmed by the helpfulness and friendliness here guys. That said, I have done a considerable bit of poking around at my local gun shops and apparently living in Massachusetts is going to be a serious hindrance to my choices.
I came across a single Marlin 336 used, it looked rather beat up, and the guy wanted almost 450 for it. I told him outright that I had already come across one, brand new, for 429. Later on that day, I also saw one for 400 (336A at Dick's Sporting Goods). He showed no willingness to haggle and I've been told by a couple of people that getting Marlins in MA is difficult due to factory issues.
I have seen some used SKS rifles, but unfortunately, they were, yet again, very beat up and very over priced. I'm not really eager to spend almost all of my rifle budget on a rifle that did not look to be in even good condition. Honestly, in my area, I have found surplus rifles to be, at the very least, 100 dollars over what I anticipate they ought to be based on research.
I did look into Saiga rifles and again, I was told that these are hard to come by in MA. If anyone reading this thread in MA knows of a good place to come by any of these rifles, I'd be much obliged. It may be the skeptic in me, but I have issues buying a gun that I haven't seen (online) and having it shipped to me. For me, purchasing a firearm is a considerable investment of time and money and I want to talk to someone face to face and feel what I am buying before I commit to it. I'm a notoriously indecisive shopper (it took me visiting 4 stores at different times to commit to a pair of fifty dollars boots) so you can certainly see my issue.
That all said, I am loving the Keltec and am eager to see some more responses to the M&P 15. While I liked handling the lever guns I did come across in my travels, my own thinking is leading me more toward a semi .223. That all said, is there anything else I ought to consider in the .223 category besides the SU-16 and M&P 15? (also, if you can recommend dealers in MA to do business with, fill me in)
I came across a single Marlin 336 used, it looked rather beat up, and the guy wanted almost 450 for it. I told him outright that I had already come across one, brand new, for 429. Later on that day, I also saw one for 400 (336A at Dick's Sporting Goods). He showed no willingness to haggle and I've been told by a couple of people that getting Marlins in MA is difficult due to factory issues.
I have seen some used SKS rifles, but unfortunately, they were, yet again, very beat up and very over priced. I'm not really eager to spend almost all of my rifle budget on a rifle that did not look to be in even good condition. Honestly, in my area, I have found surplus rifles to be, at the very least, 100 dollars over what I anticipate they ought to be based on research.
I did look into Saiga rifles and again, I was told that these are hard to come by in MA. If anyone reading this thread in MA knows of a good place to come by any of these rifles, I'd be much obliged. It may be the skeptic in me, but I have issues buying a gun that I haven't seen (online) and having it shipped to me. For me, purchasing a firearm is a considerable investment of time and money and I want to talk to someone face to face and feel what I am buying before I commit to it. I'm a notoriously indecisive shopper (it took me visiting 4 stores at different times to commit to a pair of fifty dollars boots) so you can certainly see my issue.
That all said, I am loving the Keltec and am eager to see some more responses to the M&P 15. While I liked handling the lever guns I did come across in my travels, my own thinking is leading me more toward a semi .223. That all said, is there anything else I ought to consider in the .223 category besides the SU-16 and M&P 15? (also, if you can recommend dealers in MA to do business with, fill me in)
Andrew Wyatt
Member
if you're looking for a .223, get an Ar-15. also, make sure to pick up a good .22 upper for it.
epijunkie67
Member
Many good suggestions here. There are several decent options if you want something in .223. You may be restricted by the state you live in though. Can you own an AR15? If so that is likely to be one of your better options, but I suspect they are restricted in MA.
I have an original SU16A that I installed an improved front sight on. It's a great, dependable gun. It's plastic so it won't have the durability of something like as AR but overall they are pretty rugged.
Another option might be a Ruger mini 14. It should be MA compliant and is generally considered a decent gun.
Another interesting option would be a Saiga in .223 or 7.62x39. Either can be bought brand new for less than $400-$450 easily. In their original configuration they are solid and accurate weapons with the dependability of an AK action and "should" be MA compliant.
If used stuff is as high as you say it is you're probably better off either buying online or just ordering something new.
I have an original SU16A that I installed an improved front sight on. It's a great, dependable gun. It's plastic so it won't have the durability of something like as AR but overall they are pretty rugged.
Another option might be a Ruger mini 14. It should be MA compliant and is generally considered a decent gun.
Another interesting option would be a Saiga in .223 or 7.62x39. Either can be bought brand new for less than $400-$450 easily. In their original configuration they are solid and accurate weapons with the dependability of an AK action and "should" be MA compliant.
If used stuff is as high as you say it is you're probably better off either buying online or just ordering something new.
memphisjim
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- Jul 15, 2008
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- 1,265
m1 garand you'll never regret it many a soldier in ww2 and korea had it as there first rifle as well
Sheepdog1968
Member
I'm a big fan of lever action 30-30s and the fit within your budget.
If you could save a bit more (say $750 to 800), my all purpose rifle would be the new Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle in 308. It comes with irons and you can eventually add on a scope later.
Those are my two favorites for all purpose carrying around with you.
If you could save a bit more (say $750 to 800), my all purpose rifle would be the new Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle in 308. It comes with irons and you can eventually add on a scope later.
Those are my two favorites for all purpose carrying around with you.
chrome_austex
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- Apr 10, 2008
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- 496
Lever actions are great, but they aren't very modern.
22s are great, (I want a CZ) but not everyone wants to tiptoe into the shallow side of the pool.
Nothing wrong with a Smith and Wesson carbine. 223 is a fine caliber, inexpensive and should serve well for most practical tasks.
I think the Keltec is sort of neat, but I think the the ar-15 platform just dominates the market, and for some pretty solid reasons.
Besides that M&P has a really nice package. 1/8 twist barrel will shoot anything from 55gr to the 75gr range or higher, depending on bullet length/shape. The rear A2 sight and front post are perfect for most people who just want to add a red dot or shoot with irons. And the collapsible stock and 16" barrel nice and compact, are capable of better accuracy than most new shooters. Only thing I'd add is (perhaps) a trigger.
22s are great, (I want a CZ) but not everyone wants to tiptoe into the shallow side of the pool.
Nothing wrong with a Smith and Wesson carbine. 223 is a fine caliber, inexpensive and should serve well for most practical tasks.
I think the Keltec is sort of neat, but I think the the ar-15 platform just dominates the market, and for some pretty solid reasons.
Besides that M&P has a really nice package. 1/8 twist barrel will shoot anything from 55gr to the 75gr range or higher, depending on bullet length/shape. The rear A2 sight and front post are perfect for most people who just want to add a red dot or shoot with irons. And the collapsible stock and 16" barrel nice and compact, are capable of better accuracy than most new shooters. Only thing I'd add is (perhaps) a trigger.
I'd pick the S&W over the SU-16 every time.
For your purposes and being MA compliant, the Marlin 1894 in 38/357 might be a better choice.
A 336 in .30-30 is overkill for 'small game' but very capable for coyotes/deer/etc. out to 200+ yards. There is a bullet called the 'accelerator' which is a 223 bullet loaded into a plastic sabot of 30 cal and 'makes your deer gun a varmint rifle'. It has limited accurate range but it might suit your purpose of an 'everything' rifle, rather than an AR.
For your purposes and being MA compliant, the Marlin 1894 in 38/357 might be a better choice.
A 336 in .30-30 is overkill for 'small game' but very capable for coyotes/deer/etc. out to 200+ yards. There is a bullet called the 'accelerator' which is a 223 bullet loaded into a plastic sabot of 30 cal and 'makes your deer gun a varmint rifle'. It has limited accurate range but it might suit your purpose of an 'everything' rifle, rather than an AR.
For your price range you wanted to spend, I'd probably go with a good used SKS for approx. $250-$300 or a new Saiga about <$400. The SKSs have gone up in prices, so for not much more you could get a better weapon with a quality Saiga AK w/sportster stock and still have money for a good stash of ammo.
All in all for versatility and even less money would be a good 12 ga. pump shotgun. You have a decent HD/SD weapon that's not going to pentrated walls for a long distances and it can also be used for hunting with the various loads from bird shot, 00, to slugs. You have many options in your budget. Good luck, I'd get something though for SD/HD as potentially unstable as the future appears to be. I'll never live in a metroplex again. SHTF you're pretty much trapped like a rat if you don't have a safe place plan to get to!
Guys you take for granted with all your technical jargon that this person understands all the technical terminology. Granted it's not rocket science but..............
JT
All in all for versatility and even less money would be a good 12 ga. pump shotgun. You have a decent HD/SD weapon that's not going to pentrated walls for a long distances and it can also be used for hunting with the various loads from bird shot, 00, to slugs. You have many options in your budget. Good luck, I'd get something though for SD/HD as potentially unstable as the future appears to be. I'll never live in a metroplex again. SHTF you're pretty much trapped like a rat if you don't have a safe place plan to get to!
Guys you take for granted with all your technical jargon that this person understands all the technical terminology. Granted it's not rocket science but..............
JT
BikerRN
member
Your requirements have described the "General Purpose Rifle" and that has already been designed by the late Col. Cooper. It's called the Scout Rifle. It's chambered in .308 Winchester, is Bolt Action, and is capable of taking game out to 300 yards and weighing up to 1,000 pounds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_rifle
Your idea of a Lever Action, while a good one, is limited in it's usage, especially at longer ranges. The bolt action can be manipulated as quickly as a lever action, if one is practiced, and in .308 is much more capable at longer ranges with moderate recoil. It's very mild when compared to the 45-70 Lever Action, which would be my choice in a Lever Action Rifle.
Savage makes a Scout Rifle, and with Ruger's new Scout Rifle I imagine you may find a used Savage. If you can't find a Used one, I've seen them for around your price point. I've been impressed with the accuracy of Savage Rifles, and they are without a doubt the best, "bang for the buck" right now, IMHO. I have one "general purpose" rifle, and it's a Scout.
BikerRN
Go to lots of gun shops.
When you find the "right one", the rifle for you, will call out to you from the shelf, when you pick it up, it will magically and irretrievably, stick to your hands. You won't be able to leave there with out it.
But don't let pure emotion cloud your judgement.
When you find the "right one", the rifle for you, will call out to you from the shelf, when you pick it up, it will magically and irretrievably, stick to your hands. You won't be able to leave there with out it.
But don't let pure emotion cloud your judgement.
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