Inherited Handgun-is it legal

[catmath 1911]

My father in law passed away last week. My mother in law gave me his Sig P226 and Sig P232 as he told her he wanted me to have them. My concern is I live in Georgia and my wife's family live in Alabama. Do the guns need to be registered to me?/ I called a local FFL this morning and they told me no paperwork was needed?

 

[brboyer]

My father in law passed away last week. My mother in law gave me his Sig P226 and Sig P232 as he told her he wanted me to have them. My concern is I live in Georgia and my wife's family live in Alabama. Do the guns need to be registered to me?/ I called a local FFL this morning and they told me no paperwork was needed?

At the federal level, the FFL you spoke to is correct.

Georgia or Alabama may (I doubt it) have different regulations.

18 USC 922

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence. . .

 

[TexasRifleman]

No FFL transfer needed, no registration, no paperwork etc as long as you are not a prohibited person.

§ 178.30 Out-of-State disposition of firearms by nonlicensees.

No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides: Provided, That the provisions of this section:

(a) shall not apply to the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or any acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence

ETA: LOL, 2 of us at the same time

 

[Robert]

The is no registry in either states as far as I know. To take possession of the firearms all they need to do is have the firearms shipped to an FFL in your state. You will have to fill out the 4473 and pay a transfer fee but that should be it.

 

[snubbies]

Is it legal

Title 27 CFR Part 478.29 (a) makes it legal for you to transport a gun received by bequest. The law further requires that the possesion of the gun is legal for you to own in your State. If your State requires registration then you would have to register it. The Federal Law simply gets the gun into your State. Chicago, prior to Supreme Court ruling, is a prime example. If you have the gun shipped it must be done with an FFL receiving the gun. If you chose to go pick it up and drive it back into your State you would have to comply with the laws of all the States you you cross in bringing it into your State

 

[deadin]

You might check with both the Feds and your State if they recognize verbal bequests. (Normally a bequest needs to be written into the will.)
If the Feds or your State don't recognize verbal bequests and your FIL died intestate (no will or you aren't mentioned in the will) then the guns belong to his wife (intestate succession)
If she wants you to have them, they will need to be transferred via an FFL in your State.

 

[nalioth]

To take position of the firearms all they need to do is have the firearms shipped to an FFL in your state. You will have to fill out the 4473 and pay a transfer fee but that should be it.

Bequests are exempt from the above.

In the free states, (not sure about Cali or it's ilk), any firearms listed in a will can be sent directly to the person named to receive them.

 

[wishin]

My father in law passed away last week. My mother in law gave me his Sig P226 and Sig P232 as he told her he wanted me to have them. My concern is I live in Georgia and my wife's family live in Alabama. Do the guns need to be registered to me?/ I called a local FFL this morning and they told me no paperwork was needed?

Did he say so in his will? There may be a legal technicality involved given the fact that the firearm was not a direct bequeathal to you insofar as the mother-in-law is doing the giving. Check with a local lawyer. You may need to use an FFL. We have no registration requirement in Georgia.

 

[Frank Ettin]

First, I'm sorry for your loss.

AFAIK, there's no registration requirement in Georgia. But the safest course would be to have the pistols sent to an FFL in George for transfer, on a 4473, to the OP.

Now there's the general rule that:

"It shall be unlawful...((3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to ... receive in the State where he resides ...any firearm ...otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,...(18 USC 922(a)(3), emphasis added)

But the question is whether the two pistols at issue here were lawfully acquire by bequest or intestate succession, and I'm not absolute sure that they were.

"Bequest" means, "...the gift of personal property under the terms of a will...." (http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=56, emphasis added)

Was there a will here? A "will" is, ".... a written document which leaves the estate of the person who signed the will to named persons..." (http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=2248, emphasis added) And a will generally must be filed with a court for probate so that distribution of the assets is done under court supervision. But there doesn't appear to be any written will here, nor does there appear to be any proceedings in probate.

Were the pistols transferred by intestate succession? Again it doesn't appear that they were.

"Intestate succession" is:

"...the distribution when a person dies without leaving a valid will and the spouse and heirs will take (receive the possessions) by the laws of descent and distribution and marital rights in the estate which may apply to a surviving spouse...."(http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1016, emphasis added)

In various jurisdictions, various laws of decent define how property of someone who dies without a will would be distributed among surviving family members. Usually such distribution requires that someone be appointed by the court to be the administrator of the estate, and the distribution is then carried out under court supervision.

In this case, it's most likely that the surviving spouse acquires the pistols by intestate succession. She is then making a gift of them to the OP.

Thus it's possible that the exception of 18 USC 922(a)(3) doesn't apply. In that case the safest course would be to have a transfer done by an FFL in Georgia.

While the foregoing analysis may appear hyper-technical, let's remember that AFT has no sense of humor about these matters and is, indeed, very much inclined to be hyper-technical.

 

[JohnBT]

"(Normally a bequest needs to be written into the will.)"

That's what I was going to say.

Based on the limited info in the OP, she inherited the guns from her husband and gave them to the OP. Therefore, they would need to go through an FFL.

_______________

"My father in law passed away last week."

No way this went through probate in a week, or even had probate started. Until the will is probated, no one has authority to handle the estate. The court issues papers giving authority to the person in charge of handling the estate.

John

 

[zxcvbob]

IANAL, but (assuming the gun was not specifically mentioned in the will) MIL can refuse that item of the inheritance and it will go to the next kin as an "intestate succession" -- no FFL required. (or the executor of his estate, probably MIL, can declare it to be part of your inheritance.

Best best is to just drive over there and pick it up. You might want to check with an attorney first just to be sure. Or not.

(I'm going thru exactly the same thing, if MIL, also in Alabama, can find the particular gun that was supposed to be mine)

 

[thom1960]

I agree with rondog. As far as all are concerned, they are now your guns. Go get them, but make sure you transport them legally. If they need to be shipped, they have to go through an ffl.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Based on the limited info in the OP, she inherited the guns from her husband and gave them to the OP. Therefore, they would need to go through an FFL.

If she is the executrix of the estate and distributing property as part of her duties as executrix this transfer should still be covered under the law quoted above in my opinion.
No lawyer blah blah...

Now, 3 years from now and the estate settled she decides to give a gun yes, different story.

 

[DMF]

Were the guns actually willed to you in his estate? If so the transfer might be legal under federal law. If not then your MIL will need to transfer them to you through an FFL. Also, you will need to comply with state law in both states.

Rather than take advice from people on the internet you should seek the advice of a competent attorney.

 

[nalioth]

Were the guns actually willed to you in his estate? If so the transfer might be legal under federal law

Make that "will be legal".

State and local law may be another kettle of fish.

 

[wishin]

If she is the executrix of the estate and distributing property as part of her duties as executrix this transfer should still be covered under the law quoted above in my opinion.
No lawyer blah blah...

Now, 3 years from now and the estate settled she decides to give a gun yes, different story.

The executor distributes the estate to beneficiaries in accordance with the terms of the will and settles creditor claims, among other responsibilities. Anything not in the will which he/she doles out is not a bequest and is subject to challenge by family members and others, such as the IRS.

See a lawyer, or just go through an FFL.

 

[Hodaka]

No idea of Alabama laws but if you die w/o a will in GA an estate is created by application for administrator of estate. Once completed a court order is issued granting said power to the Admin. who will settle all claims against the estate then transfer all property of the deceased per governing statues and per requests of the deceased. Generally the property will go to living spouse and living children and decendents of deceased children in equal portions, the spouse does not get it all, only a share. Normally a transfer outside those heirs needs agreement by every heir to the transfer.

SIL is not a legal heir but may be a beneficiary of the estate if all heirs agree. Therefore the transfer of a firearm may be accomplished under ATF regs. A simple Bill of Sale would be completed by Admn. of Estate.

 

[Frank Ettin]

No idea of Alabama laws but if you die w/o a will in GA an estate is created by application for administrator of estate. Once completed a court order is issued granting said power to the Admin. who will settle all claims against the estate then transfer all property of the deceased per governing statues and per requests of the deceased. Generally the property will go to living spouse and living children and decendents of deceased children in equal portions, the spouse does not get it all, only a share. Normally a transfer outside those heirs needs agreement by every heir to the transfer....

That's pretty much the way intestate succession works, generally.

...SIL is not a legal heir but may be a beneficiary of the estate if all heirs agree. Therefore the transfer of a firearm may be accomplished under ATF regs. A simple Bill of Sale would be completed by Admn. of Estate.

That might work if all the formalities have been observed and the estate is being administrated pursuant to Letters of Administration issued by the court. But it probably won't work if the formalities haven't been observed and the property is just being informally passed out by the widow.

Here's kind of the bottom line. If this is handled simply and informally, there's a good chance that no one will notice, no one will care, and you won't get caught. But that is, strictly speaking, not in accordance with the applicable statutes, so if someone does notice, does care and catches you, you will most likely not be at all happy with the outcome.

On the other hand, if you spend a few bucks and do the transfer through an FFL in Georgia, everything will be kosher, and there will be nothing to worry about.

 

[Hodaka]

fiddletown.....exactly what I was trying to say. MIL will have to go through all legal steps to accomplish legal division of property.

 

[Frank Ettin]

fiddletown.....exactly what I was trying to say. MIL will have to go through all legal steps to accomplish legal division of property.

Sorry if I misunderstood.

 

[Sam1911]

As I've had to explain to several members, at THR.org we adhere STRICTLY to all federal, state, and local laws in a given jurisdiction. Seveal posts have been deleted which treat a potential illegal transfer as a matter of no concern.

There is some question here as to exactly where the weapons under discussion fall from the view of actual inheritance and their transfer to the heir without going through a FFL dealer may or may not be legal. (Leaning toward NOT.)

Simply saying "go get 'em" regardless of the letter of the law is possibly flouting TWO federal felonies (one for the tranferer (the Mother-In-Law) and one for the transferee (the original poster)). While we can debate the technicalities of the law here, we CANNOT countenance a cavelier attitude toward a potential criiminal act -- no matter how slim the chance of discovery or conviction may seem to be.

This is The High Road. Follow the law.

 

[JohnBT]

"If she is the executrix of the estate and distributing property as part of her duties as executrix"

She's not, nobody is, he just died a week ago. There hasn't been time for a court to issue the proper paperwork naming the person who is to handle the settlement of the estate.

If he had a will and the will says she is to be the executrix, well, she isn't until the court gives her the paperwork saying she is. Then you take the paperwork and open an account to handle the finances/bill paying and hire a lawyer if need be and do all that other stuff that needs to be done. Like state and federal taxes, newspaper notices, etc.

John

 

[zxcvbob]

OK, it's too early to go pick them up because the estate is not settled yet. But ultimately that should be what happens. Y'all should make sure the gun passes from the estate directly to you ("intestate") and not to MIL first. That's pretty easy to do.

 

[deadin]

Y'all should make sure the gun passes from the estate directly to you ("intestate") and not to MIL first. That's pretty easy to do.

And how, pray tell, do you manage to do that when there are very strict State and Federal laws addressing just how estates are to be handled when the owner dies? :banghead:

 

[zxcvbob]

The estate is handled pretty much however the executor says it is handled unless the family contests something. (insert obligatory "IANAL")

"My mother in law gave me his Sig P226 and Sig P232 as he told her he wanted me to have them."

If MIL is the executor, that should be good enough right there. If not, the executor should honor the request and see that they go to you. You may or may not get anything else. Your BIL may get the old pickup. Etc. MIL will probably get most of the estate. It doesn't have to be complicated; at least not until she dies and everything gets divied-up.