Innovative Technology Head Space Gauge

[gamestalker]

Anyone here have one of these IT head space gauges? I'm thinking about getting one, but for $100, I want to be sure it is worth the $.

I like the design concept, seems like it would be very accurate.

BTW, they make a really great belted magnum collet die.

GS

 

[JimKirk]

Here a little setup that works good also... uses Sinclair hex nuts ...

For same results as the IT devise...



For measuring COAL ...


I make some with a larger "nut" for larger cartridges...

 

[steve4102]

 

[rcmodel]

Question I always had to ask myself before spending big money on something like that is?

Can it be anymore, or even as precise, as a layer of black candle soot on a case shoulder, closed in my own rifle chamber??

The answer is still a resounding NO!
It can't!

rc

 

[steve4102]

Question I always had to ask myself before spending big money on something like that is?

Can it be anymore, or even as precise, as a layer of black candle soot on a case shoulder, closed in my own rifle chamber??

The answer is still a resounding NO!
It can't!

rc

Does this technique give you an actual #number# of how far you are setting the shoulder back, say ,002 or .002 inches? ...or is this technique simply by feel, as in yup it fits, still a little tight, nope to tight need some more sizing?

 

[gamestalker]

Steve4102, that's how I'm currently doing it, and although it works well, I was giving some thought to going another route maybe.

As for sooting the shoulder, that works great for letting you know if your up against the shoulder, but it doesn't provide a reference measurement that can be recorded, thus saving a lot of time, and also by making sure shoulders don't get bumped more than necessary by providing a numerical measurement to work with.

And also to verify that acquired brass will be acceptable for use in a given rifle. I have come across brass that the previous owner/reloader bumped shoulders back as much as .016", probably from a custom rig I assume. A particular recent brass purchase actually, which inspired a thread, in which I inquired about a tool that uses hydraulic pressure to bump shoulders out. Turns out such a system exists, Hornady I believe.

GS

 

[Walkalong]

There are lots of ways reloaders are checking "shoulder position", to help them size cases for their chambers. I have, and used to use, the hex nut from Sinclairs, and it worked just fine. Since I like to tinker, I made a couple of "gauges" for doing it. Here is the one I use for .308. I vut the shoulder angle in this one. For .35 Remington I made a two diameter hole "gauge" per fguffeys recommendation.

Innovative makes a nice tool, and it will work for many calibers. Only you can say if it is worth the money.

 

[higgite]

I have an IT headspace gauge. I find it to be the fastest, easiest way to measure a batch of brass or cartridges. For instance, you can zero it on a case which you have bumped the shoulder back to give you the headspace that you're looking for with a particular rifle, then measure a batch of cases for conformity with that headspace. Or, you can use the same technique to measure OAL to the ogive. You can accomplish the same things with the comparators pictured elsewhere in this thread or with an RCBS Precision Mic, but I find them to be slower and more fidgety to use than the IT gizmo. Plus, I'm a gadget freak and I like well made precision gadgets. ymmv

 

[JimKirk]

For speed I am sure the IT product would be faster ... but unless you are running a production line and/or changing dies to use with other guns ... I find that the simple ideas work ... I normally buy a set of dies for every rifle ... even if I have several guns of the same caliber ... I set my dies(sizing) and never need move them ... I like to "make" gadgets too...

 

[higgite]

Using a digital indicator with a fixture on the shaft, attached to a base (the IT gizmo) or using calipers with a fixture attached (Hornady comparator kit) or calipers with a fixture not attached (the Sinclair hex nut with holes in it), I don't see much difference in simplicity. But there is a difference in ease of manipulation. Especially if one's dexterity isn't what it used to be. The IT gauge certainly isn't the do all to end all, and it certainly isn't as easy to make your own as poking holes in a hex nut is, but it is a nice piece of kit. Like I said, ymmv.

 

[gamestalker]

I do have a few die's that are dedicated to one rifle and remain locked down for repeatable results. But I also have some that are used for multiple rifles, in which case I would like to up grade my current method, simply for the sake of time, and ease of use.

Lots of great ideas folks, and very much appreciated.

GS

 

[oldfortyfiveauto]

I have one and it is very handy. There are may ways to do the same thing, but none as convenient. I'm loading too many different cases and this makes life a lot easier. Also great for troubleshooting problems with chambering.

 

[fguffey]

I will assume you are asking about the comparator with the digital gage. I make comparators and head space gages, there is no way I can confuse them. Comparators are available from many tool supply houses for less than $100.00 and my opinion stronger.

F. Guffey

 

[gamestalker]

It's not a matter of confusing a comparator with a head space gauge F. Guffey, it's a matter of referencing the tool the I.T. folks have on their site, "Digital Head Space Gauge". I know the difference between a comparator and a head space gauge, maybe the I.T. folks don't?

Anyway, again, lots of really great DYI devices folks. I now have some more ideas to build on.

GS

 

[higgite]

The headspace gauge vs comparator argument/debate/discussion/lecture with respect to what the the IT gizmo should or should not be called has been had a thousand times on a thousand forums already. Always with the same people saying the same thing with no one changing their point of view. Sort of pointless to go there again. I don't think its nearly as "confusing" as some make it out to be. ymmv

We now return to our regular programming.

gamestalker, IF you decide to get one, let us know your thoughts on it.

 

[Reloadron]

While I don't have an Innovative Technologies flavor I do have several flavors of these type gauges. From the simplest gauges like the Wilson and Forrester gauges which are pretty much Go/NoGo to those that afford actual numbers either on the gauges themselves or when used in conjunction with a vernier caliper. My guess the largest cost factor in the Innovative Technologies system is the dial indicator and fixturing.

You can get the same numbers using several of the gauges shown in this thread that employ the hex nut design and using your own indicator. Personally I wouldn't invest in one but I have other gauges that tell me the same thing for cartridges I am concerned with.

Finally as RC mentioned even some dykum or candle black can work fine. Granted no numbers but the object is to make ammunition that accurately shoots in your rifles.

Just My Take....
Ron

 

[Potatohead]

Sorry about this guys but Ive got to resort back to "old" Tater here for a minute..but what exactly are we measuring here...I cant tell exactly what's supposed to be going on in the pics. Especially the hex nut ones. I mean it looks like only the circumference of the nut is being measured. Or is a number on the nut lined up with something, which then gives you the measurement (and again, what is being measured, the angle of the shoulders??) Sorry but Im very interested and the easiest thing to do is just ask..

 

[JimKirk]

Tater ... the idea is to measure the shoulder set back by the sizing die ... the hex nut is just one way to do that ... you should not pay any attention to any of the number on the calipers in my photos ... nor the fact that in one photo I had the calipers across just the one one nut ... that was to show that I used a "larger" hex to make a comparator out of ...

I guess to better explain... I take a fired case ... place a hex nut on ... with a hole size that best meets the shoulder about midway... the shoulder is a straight line except for the Weatherby cartridges... zero the caliper out on the fired brass ... resize the brass .... place the brass back into the hex and measure again .... the caliper will show how much +/- that you moved the shoulder ...

The measurement provides the distance from the base of the cartridge to the datum(point) on the shoulder ....

This photo best represents the process ...

 

[Andrew Leigh]

For measuring and loading to the correct jump the most reliable method is to measure to the calibre diameter on the ogive, and not the length to the tip of the bullet.

So the nuts are equipped with a selection of 6 calibre diameters / 6 datum dimensions for headspace. One inserts the loaded round, bullet first into the appropriately sized calibre hole on the nut and then measures from the base of the bullet to the ogive or in the case of brass from base to datum. You will notice however that the vernier stretches to the opposite side of the nut including the unwanted nut dimension.

Measuring the size of the nut is simply to allow one to subtract this dimension from the vernier reading. Standard practice with a vernier would be to measure the nut, zero the vernier and then continue to measure and the nut will automatically be discounted.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

I guess to better explain... I take a fired case ... place a hex nut on ... with a hole size that best meets the shoulder about midway... the shoulder is a straight line except for the Weatherby cartridges... zero the caliper out on the fired brass ... resize the brass .... place the brass back into the hex and measure again .... the caliper will show how much +/- that you moved the shoulder ...

So if I understand correctly you are not measuring headspace Jim but rather the movement in headspace? Why would you not use the dimension at the datum point on the shoulder as your hole size rather, this way you can also measure headspace?

I too have looked at making one but cannot machine the hole to the required SAAMI dimension, was that your problem as well?

 

[JimKirk]

As pointed out earlier ... don't remember who said it ... you are not measuring "headspace" of the gun ...you would be measuring the fit of your sized brass ... by measuring the distance the shoulder is moved "back" toward the base of the cartridge...

 

[JimKirk]

I believe what is confusing to many folks ... is the idea that the word "headspace" only has one meaning ... I see two different meanings ... the distance from...

#1(Gun chamber) The bolt face to ... the part of the chamber that first contacts the cartridge brass.

#2(Cartridge) The cartridge base(face) .... to the point on the shoulder that first contacts the chamber.


Because the OP asked about the IT gauge ... as IT calls it a "headspace" gauge ... my post deal with meaning #2 ... and as RC stated ... the proper fit of cartridge brass in a chamber...

Another point(in my thinking) ... because the shoulder is a straight line(at a angle to the centerline of the cartridge) ... any measurement along that straight line is "relative" to how much the shoulder is moved...

 

[Rule3]

Maybe a picture will help':


http://www.larrywillis.com/

 

[gamestalker]

Oh boy, I sure didn't want to open this can of head space worms, yet again.

However, that IT tool is really slick, and considering I work with so many different actions and cartridges, it sure would simplify things, and save a little time too.

I really like that configuration you have there Jim, that would do just fine. Currently I'm using the same configuration as Steve4102, which works just fine, it's just a bit more cumbersome.

GS

 

[JimKirk]

Gamestalker... you are right ...as I said at the beginning of your post ... there are many ways to do and get the same results! All of them work ... some are easier to do ... some very simple... from the IT gadget to RC color marker ...

Good luck with what ever direction you go ...