Interested on opinions of using full length rifle dies or neck only.

[brutus51]

Title says it all, what determines the use of either?

 

[rayatphonix]

Neck sizing doesn’t work the brass nearly as much as full length sizing so in theory the brass will last longer. When a cartridge is fired it expands to match the chamber in the rifle. If you’re always using the same rifle, neck sizing will resize the neck so you’ll get proper tension to hold the projectile. Most will also set the shoulder back slightly to ease loading the round.

Using multiple rifles of the same chambering can create issues as there may be differences between individual rifles making chambering the round difficult. Therefore many full length size to solve that problem. Reloading for a semi-automatic rifle usually requires full length sizing because additional clearance is required for ease of chambering.

Keep in mind we’re talking tiny numbers. When neck sizing I aim for setting back the shoulder .001”. Full sizing goals are about .004”. In general I usually full size nearly everything. I’ve tried to find if neck sizing only results in better groups and I can’t tell a difference but thats me. Brass seems to last a long time either way and I’ll generally throw it away because of primer pocket expansion.

 

[Aletheia]

I would try neck sizing only if all the loads were being used in the same rifle. I have tried neck sizing in an effort to ring the final couple of tenths of an inch out of group sizes, and found it mostly didn't produce much improvement. Neck sizing makes for less case preparation than full length sizing, but every once in a while you will need to full length cases as they slowly "grow" from repeated neck sizing and shooting, so you will need FL dies anyway. At this point in my life, I just full length size after adjusting the die to produce the minimum sizing I need to get the brass to chamber properly. My guns are for hunting, so function is actually more important than a marginally tiny improvement in group sizes on paper from neck sizing, which doesn't always appear anyway.

 

[brutus51]

When neck sizing I aim for setting back the shoulder .001”. Full sizing goals are about .004”.

What tool do you use to measure this?

 

[Varminterror]

The misguided neck size only fad is has long passed, as most reloaders have realized the theory behind it never actually panned out in the real world.

Full length size with a consistent, minimal shoulder bump. It’s the best way to ensure you have consistent internal capacity from one firing to the next and demonstrably the best way to preserve case life AND rifle function. Despite reloader folklore, neck-sizing only doesn’t prove to be more accurate nor produce longer case life than full length sizing. The fad was largely propagated based on the lie that “partial full length sizing,” or “running your full length die down just far enough to size the neck,” was the same thing as “neck sizing,” when in fact it was really full length sizing with a minimal shoulder bump. A reloader cannot neck-size only with a full length die. But guys believed they could (looks like we have at least one in this thread) and they got great accuracy, and pretended they were neck sizing only, instead of what they were ACTUALLY doing, which was full length sizing. Guys using true neck only dies will run into function issues as their body expands and that ONE firing they needed to hit it with the FL die, but didn’t yet, and their internal capacity will vary from one firing to the next, growing and growing until they full length size for feeding, which shrinks it back down. I personally don’t like to invite inconsistency into my reloads on purpose.

 

[murf]

neck sizing was big back when i was a kid (the sixties). back then dad showed me how to neck size for our varmint rifles which included a full length resize when the bolt wouldn't close on a neck sized round. as said in the above post, not very consistent. but, that is how it was done back in the day. i had never heard of "partial sizing with a full length sizer die".

now i partial full length size all my rifle rounds. the neck sizer dies are all collecting dust. this new way is better all the way around.

luck,

murf

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

Get out the popcorn and pull up a stool....

I use a Lee collet neck sizing die for the 7.62x54r cartridges I shoot monthly in the Military Bolt-gun Match at the local club.
I am right now loading cases that have been fired 13 times without full length sizing.

I do, however, anneal every 3rd firing.

I'm not convinced that full length sizing is the panacea that some think, nor do I have the idea that neck sizing is all unicorn smiles and rainbows.

One thing I've learned over the years: if you think it helps, it probably does.

IOW, shooting is a mental game as much as anything else.

 

[murf]

I'm not convinced that full length sizing is the panacea that some think, nor do I have the idea that neck sizing is all unicorn smiles and rainbows.

we killed a lot of woodchucks at long distances back then. neck sizing worked then and it will work now. thanks for the annealing part of neck sizing, hooda thunkit.

murf

 

[entropy]

There are several reasons I have never neck sized only;
I don't shoot serious bench rest competition
I have more that one rifle in most the calibers I reload, and of course this can cause problems.
I actually use small base dies for all my semi auto rifles for sure reliability.

I have nothing against neck sizing only, just have no use for it.

 

[1KPerDay]

If you shoot a semi auto or lever gun you should full length size. If you want the most consistent ammo you should probably full length size.

This made sense to me:

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

He spends 2 minutes telling everyone to stop doing it. Then he says "I'm not here to tell anyone what to do...."

What difference does it make to him if anyone neck sizes ? What an arrogant dink.

I'm here to say that I've had success neck sizing. Do whatever you want to do.

 

[cfullgraf]

I neck size my 22 Hornet cases. I only have one 22 Hornet rifle. It is the only rifle/case combination that I have that has serious case head separation issues. By neck sizing, I get a few more loadings from a case before it fails. (Damn that long gentle neck taper )

Like entropy, I small base dies all my semi-auto rifle cases if dies are available and full length size everything else.

 

[Walkalong]

After playing around with neck sizing so many years ago because the magazines said it was better, I now full length size everything, either standard FL sizers or bushing style sizers, gonna try a honed out FL sizer one of these days.

 

[Woolecox]

This:
https://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/118-type-s-bushing-dies

Or this:
https://www.forsterproducts.com/pro...ing/bushing-bump-neck-bench-rest-sizing-dies/

Both bump the shoulder back the desired amount and precisely tension the neck. Consistent cases every time. I use these for both bolt guns and automatics. I also anneal after every firing.

 

[Walkalong]

I tried the Forster "bump die" and it eventually caused the same issue, I had to full length size. Same issue I had with my Niel Jones hand die that was supposed to size the neck and bump the shoulder only. Nothing worse than being on the clock in a match with a good condition and you are struggling to chamber ammo.

 

[woodshunter]

The misguided neck size only fad is has long passed, as most reloaders have realized the theory behind it never actually panned out in the real world.

I use to neck size only after the initial firing chamber formed it, only takes a couple reloads and you have shoulder fit problems that require FL sizing to fit again. I set the full length die up to just bump the shoulder back and remove the spindle and sizer button. I clean brass and prep it, then run it thru the FL die to bump and then run the brass thru a lee collet/mandrel die which only sizes the neck and sets tension without tweaking the case neck. Eliminating pulling the sizer button thru case neck and setting neck tension the same every time will improve runout and accuracy plus allows the rounds to chamber without tight bolt closing. Collet mandrel die is best $23. you will ever spend, if they don't make in your cartridge size get a sinclair expander mandrel set-up a little more $ but really not that much more.

 

[rayatphonix]

What tool do you use to measure this?

Depending on the cartridge I’ll sometimes use an RCBS Precision Mic. I got several at a great price and tried them. I shoot bolt action most of the time so once I get the die setup, it’s good enough for my purposes.

Another option is the Hornady Headspace gauge. Not as precise, but again, it serves my needs.

 

[Walkalong]

What tool do you use to measure this?

The Whidden operates similarly to the RCBS Precision Mic.

The Sinclair stuff works like the Hornady stuff, but the inserts are stainless steel.
There are cheaper options out there that work just fine.

Here is a home made "gauge" that works.

 

[rayatphonix]

My neck sizing is done with the Forster bushing bump dies which are described above. The advantage ( I thought ) was it comes with 3 bushings so you’ll know you’ve got the right size. In practice I ended up with lots of unused bushings. I always ended up using the largest diameter. Recently I had some neck tension issues and brought these dies out of their storage box. Ended up making a minor problem a bigger problem. That reminded me why I generally full length size.

For those that are curious, the Forster die produces different neck tension than the Redding full length bushing die when using the same size bushing. Can’t figure out why though.

 

[Nature Boy]

If you shoot a semi auto or lever gun you should full length size. If you want the most consistent ammo you should probably full length size.

This made sense to me:

Erik Cortina is a 2 time Texas State Long Rang F Class champion. I’ll go out on a limb and say he’s got a handle on his load development process.

He’s got some strong opinions on neck sizing

 

[pert near]

Okay, I'll throw a little confusion into the discussion....

I been reloading & shooting without any sizing. My rifle is a 6mm PPC bench gun with a .262" neck chamber. My brass is turned so the necks have .0015" wall clearance. So as an experiment I've been punching out the primers, re-priming, adding powder, then seating & shooting. I'm not a serious competitor but the heavy rifle with 36x scope pretty much shoots tiny groups if I do my part. Like .25" & occasionally into the teens. Never split a neck or lost a case. My guess is the cases could out last the life of the barrel!

BTW: IIRC, I first read about "no-sizing" from an old article by Warren Page. And I FL size with a slight shoulder bump on all my other rifles.

 

[murf]

Erik Cortina is a 2 time Texas State Long Rang F Class champion. I’ll go out on a limb and say he’s got a handle on his load development process.

He’s got some strong opinions on neck sizing

View attachment 930974

do you guys run tight-neck chambers?

murf

 

[Nature Boy]

do you guys run tight-neck chambers?

murf

I really couldn't say Murf

 

[labnoti]

I use a bushing neck size die from Redding with the expander button removed. I don't use the body die. I use a single bolt-action rifle. I have not been convinced by any argument why I should use the body die or why I should use the expander button.

Why is the body die better than my chamber?

The bushing sizes the neck down for proper neck tension. Then I seat the bullet. Can the expander button provide any benefit if I'm not going to turn the outside diameter of the necks?

I just do neck with bushing, powder, bullet. How could any additional step possibly improve that?

 

[JDinFbg]

Title says it all, what determines the use of either?

I have tried and done both with my bolt action rifles since I only have one for each caliber. I ALWAYS full-length size for my lever gun. For my 30-06 I found that neck sizing only with a dedicated neck sizing die created issues with locking the bolt on some cartridges. It is an old 1917 Enfield with the original barrel, and perhaps the chamber is not concentric and the reloaded round did not go to the exact position in which it was previously fired. After doing some research, I started partially full-length resizing the brass based on finding the amount of full-length sizing just needed to get easy bolt closure. This was determined by stripping the bolt so the cartridge was the only thing producing any restraining force, and progressively setting down my FL die until the bolt handle would nearly drop closed on a chambered case. Some have referred to this as the bolt-drop method. This seemed to work fine for my 30-06 since I was mainly shooting lighter weight bullets that did not occupy the full case neck area. However, in trying this on my 6mm Remington, I found I was not getting enough of the neck sized to adequately hold the bullet, and I was having issues with bullets dropping into the case if the loaded round got jarred or the bullet pushed on to any extent. So my solution was to order a Lee collett neck sizer so I can size the entire neck to get better hold on the bullet. Thus, case sizing for the 6mm Remington will become a 2-step sizing operation. FYI, I ground off the expanding button on the de-capping rod so there is no neck expansion when the de-capping rod is withdrawn. I have yet to receive the Lee neck sizer, but am fairly confident this will resolve my issue.