Interesting Mauser 48
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I’ve got an M-48A with the plain Yugoslav crest. Still haven’t taken it out to the range since it’s a lower priority now. The only ammo I have is the notorious Turkish 1940s ball ammo. So far about 1 in 10 has a split neck. That said the powder on the 11 I pulled was good and if nothing else I have nothing invested in it and got bullets and clips there.
I did pick up new PPU brass and bullets from grafs this fall. I just left my dies at my parents place, 1000 miles away. But this has me inspired to remember the 8mm dies over the holidays.
I did pick up new PPU brass and bullets from grafs this fall. I just left my dies at my parents place, 1000 miles away. But this has me inspired to remember the 8mm dies over the holidays.
Roverguy
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You can quote and misquote. But I have a Master’s degree in Arabic and lived in the Middle East for 15 years. There are Arabic numerals and Hindu numerals. That Hindu numerals are used in parts of the Arab world don’t make them Arabic numerals. Period.
Ignition Override
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OP
Glad you knew how, or figured out how to use the Mauser sights .
My excellent condition M48 was sold mostly because of the need to aim 6” (or so) low at 50 yards (battle sights…we know) but the basic iron sight geometry did not grow on me one bit. A shame- such a nice gun.
Roverguy: In a book by language expert Charles Berlitz, “Native Tongues”, page 103, he also states that true Arabic numbers don’t look like “Arabic numbers” to us.
I certainly don’t recognize them.
Glad you knew how, or figured out how to use the Mauser sights .
My excellent condition M48 was sold mostly because of the need to aim 6” (or so) low at 50 yards (battle sights…we know) but the basic iron sight geometry did not grow on me one bit. A shame- such a nice gun.
Roverguy: In a book by language expert Charles Berlitz, “Native Tongues”, page 103, he also states that true Arabic numbers don’t look like “Arabic numbers” to us.
I certainly don’t recognize them.
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lysanderxiii
Member
So, why did the Arabs drop their own invention, "Arabic" numerals, for a different system from further east??
In many ways the Arabic numbers are far superior to Hindi numerals, I mean if a housefly lands on your account ledger and takes a poop in the wrong place, you could be off by a factor of ten, a hundred, or more . . .
Swampman
Old Fart
There were four actual, verifiable, sources presented that contradict what you're saying, but you seem to expect that people should believe you instead due to your (claimed) expertise and experience?
I'm guessing that you got a BA instead of a BS?
Not even gonna speculate about your political beliefs...
Roverguy
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1) This has nothing to do with you and you bring no knowledge of the subject to the table so your opinions are as irrelevant as they are unwelcome
2) You don’t know the difference between a Masters degree and a Bachelors degree
3) Not one of those sources contradict the fact that I presented. They all misleadingly suggest Hindu numerals are somehow Arabic because they are used in parts of the Arab world. That doesn’t make them Arab. That’s fact.
Roverguy
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Because in the Persian Gulf, for example, trade was very focused on the Indian subcontinent and many Arab traders will have spoken Urdu and Hindi as well as Arabic. They adopted the numerals used with their major trading partners. Indeed, many prominent Gulf Arab families are actually of Indian and Pakistani origins and gradually localized in the littoral Arab states of the Gulf.
Swampman
Old Fart
So....
Your arguments are still totally focused on what you "know"...?
Do you have anything beyond your personal "knowledge"?
Do you have anything published to back up what so far appear to be your personal beliefs?
I'm not saying that you're wrong, but can you show us anything in print that backs up your beliefs?
Your arguments are still totally focused on what you "know"...?
Do you have anything beyond your personal "knowledge"?
Do you have anything published to back up what so far appear to be your personal beliefs?
I'm not saying that you're wrong, but can you show us anything in print that backs up your beliefs?
Dave DeLaurant
Member
This is moving from an observation into an argument, and before it goes too far into personalities, let me back up a bit and explain my original intention.
The issue here seems to be a question of terminology vs. common usage. Please forgive me if I gave the impression that "Eastern Arabic Numerals" is correct or accurate; what I attempted to show that the term has entered common usage. Right or wrong, this term has become a thing.
Since THR discussions can be both social and academic by turns, I was pleased by Roverguy's informed statements. I think it is better to learn what is correct than insist that I always am. My intention was to contrast (rather than deny) his statement against examples of common usage.
BTW, Roverguy's comments encouraged me to ask Jonathan Ferguson at the Royal Armouries for his opinion on this specific usage. There may be more to his reply later since he asked for a second opinion, but here is our verbatim email exchange from today:
-----Original Message-----
From: David DeLaurant
Sent: 05 December 2022 16:34
To: Jonathan Ferguson
Subject: Quick question, possibly loaded
Would you kindly spare an opinion regarding a recent discussion from The High Road's rifle forum.
The attached photos show the rear sight markings from a Persian Mauser and an Egyptian Hakim. How would you refer to the numeral systems used on these?
Some possible answers:
Arabic numerals
Hindu numerals
Eastern Arabic numerals
Indo-Arabic numerals
Persian/Egyptian numerals
indigenous numbers
curious foreign numbers
Would your choice likely be different during a chat with a general audience than in the text of a museum monograph?
Personally I don't believe there is a wrong answer here, just degrees of rightness.
You opinion will not be later used against you in court. - Dave
-----Reply-----
Hmm. Probably "Arabic" although if I was just looking at the Persian rifle I'd likely call that "Persian" as it seems easier to be specific there.
I might instead (depending how much time I had) check with my colleague who looks after Asian and African collections. Although 'modern' firearms like these are my responsibility, they are more culturally and linguistically aware as they cover all arms and armour of those continents from the year dot until the late 19th century.
What do you think, Scot?
Jonathan
Jonathan Ferguson
Keeper of Firearms & Artillery
Associate Editor, ARMAX - the Journal of Contemporary Arms (https://www.armaxjournal.org/)
National Firearms Centre
Armouries Drive, Leeds, LS10 1LT
01132 201875
===
[Here's the 'more later' part:]
From: Scot Hurst
Sent: 08 Dec 2022 02:03 AM
To: Jonathan Ferguson, David DeLaurant
Cc: Edged Weapons Armour & Oriental, Maeve Anderson
Hi David,
Looking closely at the two sights, there are actually two number systems being used.
On the Persian Mauser sight the numbers are in Urdu
۰ ۱ ۲ ۳ ۴ ۵ ۶ ۷ ۸ ۹
whereas the Hakim rear sight has Arabic numerals
٠ ١ ٢ ٣ ٤ ٥ ٦ ٧ ٨ ٩
(not to be confused with the "Arabic" numerals we are familiar with in the west).
I hope that's helpful!
Kind regards,
Scot
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OP
OP
Random 8
Member
OP here. Can you guys please move your discussion of Arabic or Eastern Ara-Hindu or Ugga Bugga or whatever you call it that doesn't specifically pertain to markings on a Mauser M48 pattern rifle to the realm of private messages or an off topic forum? Thanks!
Mauser fan
Member
Very well said Dave.
The makings that are being discussed here as it pertains to this one in particular are very relevant to the original topic and how this discussion has morphed. Further-more the discussion has definitely become very informative and most certainly applies to the discussion of firearms of this period in history. What would be even more interesting is to here what someone has to say with translating what is stamped on the parts for this particular rifle in the original post.
robin banks
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I just got a taller front site
OP
OP
Random 8
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I just aim really low, or shoot targets really far away
. I actually despise "barleycorn" Mauser sights. The blade on my M96 Swede is a much different animal. In the case of this specific rifle, it seems to have a 200ish yard zero, close enough for government work, with the ancient Czech 180ish CuNi jacketed ammo. Needs a windage tweak yet, but I was able to engage a 6" 200 yard gong with more or less a centered hold and some Kentucky. It's a bit high at shorter range, but not excessively so. With the 198 gr Yugo ball, it seemingly has an infinity zero. Gives me a good idea where to go with reloading once my surplus ammo is expended. I've used this workaround with other milsurp rifles. My Swiss guns all shoot a lighter bullet at a relatively sedate velocity to bring zero down to center at 200 yards. My Swede which also gets match use wears a taller front sight and some minor load tweaks and a few file strokes brought things to center at 200. The Soviet mosins are easy. A finishing nail with a dab of JB makes a reversable and effective replacement .robin banks
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what works better on a mosin and other rifle is to file just a little off the bottom of the rear site. only need very little to make a good differenceI just aim really low, or shoot targets really far away
Dave DeLaurant
Member
Good luck with that -- the more I've tried to steer my own posts, the less interest they've generated.
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Regarding your rifle, have you had the barrelled action out of the stock to see whether there are markings on the barrel or the underside of the receiver? If present, a few photos of these can help trace the production and/or rework history.
Also, if you are unconcerned about preserving condition, you may want to look at the sighting changes that the Norwegians made to their repurposed Nazi K98ks:
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/norwegian-k98kf1-repurposed-mauser/
Brownells sells a Mauser front sight blade that's tall enough to file down for a shorter range zero. Check first to see whether your rifle has the usual 5.26mm front dovetail.
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...er-91-dovetail-front-sight-blank-prod341.aspx
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