interesting self-defense incident

[AJC1]

OK, I see she had it in her hand when she started down the hallway to her (or her friend's) apartment. We don't see her take it out, but at that point we also don't see the attackers. We do see her look up the stairs and then the assailant runs into the picture.

Could be she already took it out when she noticed them following her and her friend. Or that she took it out just before the video starts because she already perceived that the assailants had only gone up the first half of the staircase.

Maybe somebody here can find a longer video.

I watched it on YouTube originally on donut operator. Admittedly I watch all video and look for how a zealous district attorney could file charges. It is always my inclination to leave unless trapped. The only place I refuse to retreat is my home. I will move to a location that maximizes my advantage, and if they advance that is the final indication.

 

[Jeff White]

A woman, armed or unarmed is just as credible a threat as a man. You follow the old adage that “girls are sugar and spice and everything nice” at your peril.

 

[aaaaa]

If someone's already advancing toward you pointing a gun at you from a fairly short distance, I don't see a way to avoid engaging unless you just want to stand there and get shot. You can't outrun a bullet.

It depends why they are advancing on you with a gun. They may or may not intend to shoot you, but if you try to draw they probably will before you can shoot back. With enough distance, running away may be a better option, but not in a straight line, more to the side and especially to cover.

 

[Kleanbore]

It depends why they are advancing on you with a gun.

How would anyone know that?

 

[aaaaa]

How would anyone know that?

That is a problem, but once they have their gun on you, you really don't have much chance of drawing and firing first, so presumably you would try to play along until an opportunity arises.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I watched it on YouTube originally on donut operator. Admittedly I watch all video and look for how a zealous district attorney could file charges. It is always my inclination to leave unless trapped. The only place I refuse to retreat is my home. I will move to a location that maximizes my advantage, and if they advance that is the final indication.

I thought more about this since reading your earlier post. It was nighttime and she was on foot. Hard to think she would have been safer on the street, which was the only choice other than entering the building. That being the case, I actually think if she did already take the gun out before even starting up the stairs in the lobby, it was probably smart. She could have maybe held it in a way so it wouldn't have been visible to anyone, but it seems that in fact it wasn't visible to the assailant until after the assailant pointed her own gun at her. If it turned out that actually there was no danger she could have simply continued into her (or her friend's) apartment, no harm no foul.

 

[old lady new shooter]

It depends why they are advancing on you with a gun. They may or may not intend to shoot you, but if you try to draw they probably will before you can shoot back. With enough distance, running away may be a better option, but not in a straight line, more to the side and especially to cover.

In this case, there didn't appear to be enough distance, and I didn't see anything that looked like cover.

 

[old lady new shooter]

That is a problem, but once they have their gun on you, you really don't have much chance of drawing and firing first, so presumably you would try to play along until an opportunity arises.

I really think if the assailant had seen that the defender had her gun next to her leg, she would not have pointed her own gun at her. It wasn't like the defender was going to have to dig it out from somewhere, it was in her hand.

 

[Old Dog]

I think what clarified things for me a few years back, I got to work the women's pod in the jail, which quickly helped me understand that women can be at least as evil and violent, often more so, than men. Then getting to interview some females who'd committed some heinous crimes cemented that realization for me. By the time I was actually assaulted by a female with an edged weapon, I was not totally taken by surprise... (okay, maybe a little...)

Good situational awareness means that one doesn't (or shouldn't) presume a lack of intent based solely on gender.

 

[aaaaa]

In this case, there didn't appear to be enough distance, and I didn't see anything that looked like cover.

Right, in the video, no cover available. I was addressing your post in a general sense. Definitely in the video the defender was ready.

While I did not listen to all the commentary (I will tomorrow), there is a lot of good info provided, such as that she fired at least 10 shots, so forget the revolver in that situation, and that a law for a 10-round mag limit just sets one up for the BG to come back after you once your empty your gun.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Right, in the video, no cover available. I was addressing your post in a general sense. Definitely in the video the defender was ready.

While I did not listen to all the commentary (I will tomorrow), there is a lot of good info provided, such as that she fired at least 10 shots, so forget the revolver in that situation, and that a law for a 10-round mag limit just sets one up for the BG to come back after you once your empty your gun.

She seemed to me to be doing spray and pray. But she did get one hit, which succeeded in making the assailant go away, so I'm not criticizing.

I'm a revolver person, attempts to learn to use a speed loader did not result in imagining I would be able to use one in a Situation. Like to think I would actually aim. If there's a way to carry a second full-size one for a New York reload I haven't figured it out yet. Wear a knife for backup. Under the impression that reloading a semi-auto is quick and relatively foolproof but see my post in "What do the ladies carry" thread for why I carry a revolver.

 

[aaaaa]

She seemed to me to be doing spray and pray. But she did get one hit, which succeeded in making the assailant go away, so I'm not criticizing.

I'm a revolver person, attempts to learn to use a speed loader did not result in imagining I would be able to use one in a Situation. Like to think I would actually aim. If there's a way to carry a second full-size one for a New York reload I haven't figured it out yet. Wear a knife for backup. Under the impression that reloading a semi-auto is quick and relatively foolproof but see my post in "What do the ladies carry" thread for why I carry a revolver.

Spray and pray or just the intensity of the situation she panicked and, well yes, spray and pray. But that is the thing, a self defense situation often will come on like an explosion out of nowhere. Her situational awareness saved her life, although it might have been wiser to turn around and leave the building. But can you call the police to clear the building just on a hunch? Probably not. So if she leaves the building, then what? Wait?

 

[old lady new shooter]

Spray and pray or just the intensity of the situation she panicked and, well yes, spray and pray. But that is the thing, a self defense situation often will come on like an explosion out of nowhere. Her situational awareness saved her life, although it might have been wiser to turn around and leave the building. But can you call the police to clear the building just on a hunch? Probably not. So if she leaves the building, then what? Wait?

It was late at night and she was on foot. Not a good time and place for a lone female to be on the street.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

How would anyone know that?

A good question...but one doesn't necessarily have to be a mind reader to divine nefarious intent.

Behavior/actions speak well to intent. And paying attention to the cues provided by behavior/actions is a very large part of situational awareness.

As to "why" specifically...I'm not interested in the specific details of "why". I care not whether the intent is to rob me of money, intimidate me, posture, wacked out on drugs, doesn't like my hair, or whatever. I only care about the threat of death or injury.

To be sure...each and every occasion requires the person actually on the scene to make that judgement call for themselves based on the totality of circumstances.

 

[JohnKSa]

She could have just left.

I can see wanting to try for the safety of a door that could be locked behind them

I think if they were getting out of their car and saw something, getting back in and leaving would be good. Since they were on foot, things are a little different. They could call 911 and head back out onto the street but I can see how heading away from their residence on foot might not have been an attractive option. They could try to get to a car to leave--I assume they had one parked around there somewhere, but we don't know that for sure.

 

[aaaaa]

It seems to me that in her situation, gun pointing at her, she really did not have time to try getting a sight picture. This is a situation where a lot of rounds, deployed quickly is going to be the surest bet to stop the threat. With a revolver you better get some good hits but with a 16-round mag or whatever she had, the spray and pray worked for her because most sane people will retreat under a barrage of bullets. But had she not gotten at least one hit, would the perp have come back?

I also notice she stopped shooting once the immediate threat was over (or was her gun empty?). There seem to be a couple of shots after the second perp turned to run, but she said that person got shot (thinks in the leg) and partly collapsed but still turned the gun over her shoulder back at her, so definitely not in peaceful retreat at that point.

There is a lot to learn in that video both from the incident and from the man giving the commentary. His channel has a lot of other great videos too.

Thanks to the OP for putting that up.

 

[The Night Rider]

I really think if the assailant had seen that the defender had her gun next to her leg, she would not have pointed her own gun at her.

Like everything else in the world it depends.

If she really was there to kill her she would have just shot her in the back.

I'm a revolver person, attempts to learn to use a speed loader did not result in imagining I would be able to use one in a Situation.

Get some dummy rounds. At night while you're just sitting there watching TV, unload your revolver, put the live ammunition in a separate room and just practice reloading with the dummy rounds over and over and over and over again until you can do it without thinking about it.

I used to do that with the magazines on my Glock. I would sit there watching TV and just reload over and over and over again. It worked

 

[aaaaa]

Get some dummy rounds. At night was just sitting there watching TV, unload your revolver, put the live ammunition in a separate room and just practice reloading with the dummy rounds over and over and over and over again until you can do it without thinking about it.

I used to do that with the magazines on my Glock. I would sit there watching TV and just reload over and over and over again. It worked

Build muscle memory so it happens automatically because in the high stress situation that is how it will go. Those folks carefully collecting their brass from the revolver at the range may end up too slow emptying the brass on a panic-reload.

 

[Seedy Character]

I was with you until the last sentence. A woman pointing a gun at you wouldn't push you over the line as fast as a man pointing a gun at you?

A woman pointing a gun at you is MORE likely to shoot, IMO. No practical experience, but the typical female running towards, screaming, gun in hand is not wanting to discuss a peaceful solution. She is intent on murder.

 

[Speedo66]

A brother of mine likened this to some training he gave while in the Marines overseas in Japan. If you actually pay attention to what your mind is telling you, you can even pick out a perfectly quiet, unseen individual in the dark NOT by the noise they make, but by the noise they BLOCK by their very presence.

Interesting idea, just wish I still had the hearing acuity to do that.

Unfortunately, military time, LE time, recreational shooting time, and 50+ years of motorcycle riding have all worked to deny me that ability.

 

[aaaaa]

A brother of mine likened this to some training he gave while in the Marines overseas in Japan. If you actually pay attention to what your mind is telling you, you can even pick out a perfectly quiet, unseen individual in the dark NOT by the noise they make, but by the noise they BLOCK by their very presence.

My hearing too bad also. But I wonder if this is something dogs routinely do. They have the hearing for it, that is unless they are a gun dog.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Interesting idea, just wish I still had the hearing acuity to do that.

You and me both.

I was born with a hearing problem. Fortunately, it was identified and corrected when I was in first grade and for many years I actually had better than average hearing. Then, while I was in the Navy, my hearing started degrading...turned out to be due to cholesteatomas in both ears. Surgery fixed that, improving my hearing, but not to where it used to be. And in the two decades since then, the right hear has slowly degraded a bit more.

*sigh*

 

[The Night Rider]

Interesting idea, just wish I still had the hearing acuity to do that.

Unfortunately, military time, LE time, recreational shooting time, and 50+ years of motorcycle riding have all worked to deny me that ability.

I bet I could do it with my hearing aids in

 

[theotherwaldo]

I spent the better part of a year seriously visually impaired as a kid.
Once you become attuned with an environment you can hear and feel it when you approach a hard surface and also tell when a softer surface or structure is nearby.
You can also hear the 60-cycle hum of active electrical circuits and tell when there's something different between you and a power source.
Air currents also have tales to tell.
You quickly learn what different surfaces on the walls and under foot mean and how they change the ambient sounds.
It still helps me, more than half a century later.

 

[Kleanbore]

we have left the topic.....