Introducing the patent pending "FIREARM CONTROL DEVICE", looking for feedback.

[Wayland]

I am pleased to introduce the latest invention from my brother and I, which we are referring to as the "firearm control device." In this embodiment, this patent pending invention improves weapon manipulation on the AR-15 family of rifles, especially with regards to clearing malfunctions in a rapid, fluid and tactically sound manner. Below is a prototype demonstration video of my brother putting the invention through it's paces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb6Z1sBvlqI

In this embodiment, when used to aid in malfunction clearance, the primary advantage this invention provides is the ability for the weapon operator to release the magazine and also lock the bolt to the rear, solely by depressing the magazine release and pulling the charging handle. This is useful for clearing a difficult malfunction where remedial action is necessary, such as a double feed where you would need to lock the bolt back and strip the magazine.

Being able to release the magazine and lock the bolt back with a single button (the magazine release) is considerably faster and easier to do. This saves potentially critical time, and simplifies the procedure overall. Without this invention, the weapon operator must change how he is holding the weapon and press the bolt catch and magazine release separately.

In this embodiment, the bolt catch is only activated when the magazine release is fully depressed and the bolt held to the rear. As a result, the bolt will not be locked back without direct input from the operator, avoiding accidental locking of the bolt. This embodiment of the invention does not release the bolt catch, thus avoiding accidental release of the bolt. Further, cycling the action with the charging handle does not release the magazine or lock the bolt back unless you press/hold the magazine release.

It is important to keep in mind that, with this device installed, nothing prevents the operator of the weapon from manipulating it with the traditional manual of arms. The bolt catch can still be activated by depressing it's lower surface as it is currently employed. This invention adds an additional option for the operator of the firearm, but does not remove any of the controls currently on the weapon.

There are additional functions which this invention can perform, but malfunction clearance is probably its most important improvement to weapon manipulation. In this embodiment, the design is also very elegant, adding no additional parts to the weapon.

We're not far from the point where we must make the final decision on the layout and finish of the first low rate production lot. We've pretty much decided on using stainless steel, and there are a plethora of finishes we could use. We would like to hear what THR would prefer for the finish, and any other suggestions. Feedback, questions, comments and constructive criticism are welcome.

Wayland.

 

[omegaflame]

Provisional patent filing? or a real one?

 

[rcmodel]

In this embodiment, the bolt catch is only activated when the magazine release is fully depressed and the bolt held to the rear.

I don't do video's.

Does this mean the bolt doesn't lock open any longer when the last round is fired?

If so, that is a serious flaw in your tactical thinking.

rc

 

[Z-Michigan]

I can't see a benefit to this.

Wonder how the THR organizers feel about this blatant advertising being your post #1...

 

[jerkface11]

Rc it lets you lock the bolt back by pushing the mag catch. Looks like the mag catch still holds it open on the last round though.

 

[unwise11]

I like it, Now shoot with it in use. I want to see the bolt lock back upon last round.

 

[highorder]

This device combines the Magpul B.A.D. (and similar devices) with the mag release.

The factory controls work fine for me, and I'm hesitant to complicate things for little if any perceived benefit. Regardless, if it's cheap enough to produce, AR geeks will probably buy them.

 

[Wayland]

I don't do video's.

Does this mean the bolt doesn't lock open any longer when the last round is fired?

If so, that is a serious flaw in your tactical thinking.

rc

When the magazine catch is not depressed (such as when firing), there is no interaction between the magazine catch and bolt catch. Thus there is no interference with normal bolt-catch operation, at all, period.

With this invention, the rifle functions normally in every regard... You can even operate the bolt catch by hand in the traditional manner if you desire... The only thing changed, is you have the ability to activate the bolt catch with the magazine release if you desire.

Wonder how the THR organizers feel about this blatant advertising being your post #1...

Look, we need feedback on this thing... We're not some huge company who can call up a dozen shooting professionals and ask them dumb questions all day. Nor do we have a good feel for what the reception for this invention will be. We could use input on anything we overlooked, uses for this thing we haven't thought of, preferences for finishes, and a dozen other things... Otherwise we'd be stumbling around in the dark.

I'm not too worried about finding buyers at this point... I'm worried about making the right choices for production. If I don't get some bearings on that, and we make a big mistake, that's a big problem.

The factory controls work fine for me,

Understood, but keep in mind, even with this invention installed, nothing prevents you from using the rifle as you currently do.

and I'm hesitant to complicate things

This invention adds no additional parts to the rifle, and in no way interferes with normal operation.

for little if any perceived benefit.

It does make remedial action faster and easier... How important remedial action is to you, of course, is a personal matter.

Wayland.

 

[kwelz]

Z he has been posting this on multiple firearms boards soliciting feedback from expereinced shooter.

There are benefits to this. I see it as having some potential. But I thought the same thing about the Magpul BAD and now I hate them. SO we will see with time. I am curous to get my ahnds on one for T&E at one of my classes.

 

[GunTech]

Interesting. You might think about getting it into the hands of some beta testers and see what they say.

 

[Justin]

Wonder how the THR organizers feel about this blatant advertising being your post #1...

Wayland specifically asked me if he could post about this device. I gave him the ok on it. Since they aren't even taking orders on the product, I have a hard time buying the notion that this is nothing more than an advertisement (no #800, no website listed to place an order, no solicitation for orders would make for a mighty strange ad.)

 

[Z-Michigan]

OK, so I was a bit harsh at first... my apologies. I have seen too many similar posts that were blatant advertising, here and elsewhere.

When the magazine catch is not depressed (such as when firing), there is no interaction between the magazine catch and bolt catch. Thus there is no interference with normal bolt-catch operation, at all, period.

With this invention, the rifle functions normally in every regard... You can even operate the bolt catch by hand in the traditional manner if you desire... The only thing changed, is you have the ability to activate the bolt catch with the magazine release if you desire.

This wasn't at all clear from the first post or the video. With that cleared up, this sounds a lot more interesting. I'm still not sure I would use it, but if it doesn't interfere with anything it would have little downside. I know you probably spent time making that video, but you may want to make another one that is really, brutally clear and impossible to misunderstand. A website with still photos and a FAQ would be helpful too. It could even be on Facebook or (gasp) Myspace if nothing fancier is feasible.

When you start production, be 100% certain this part is at least as strong as a stock bolt catch, as sometimes they break or fail.

I am still picturing this in comparison to the Magpul "BAD" which I recently got to try - a great device when you're at a range and not under any stress, but likely to screw up most people under stress (excepting those who've actually practiced 10's of thousands of rounds with it installed). On the plus side your invention still works normally and doesn't appear to go inside the trigger guard area, reducing the ways to screw it up.

My recommendation would be to give a free "beta test" T&E device to any professional trainer who will answer your call or email and see what they have to say. You could also consider making a small run of similar "beta test" models and selling them on the condition that people give feedback and eventually return them.

 

[Hatterasguy]

Interesting, I'd have to try it. I find the AR's battery of arms to be fairly simple and straightforward so I can't say without trying this if it would help.

Put it in Pat Rogers hands see what he thinks.

 

[jerkface11]

Trying to lock the bolt back normally is kind of a pain. I think I'd buy one of these.

 

[MCMXI]

The ability to quickly and ergonomically make a loaded AR15 safe (lock the bolt back) by dropping the mag and pulling back on the charging handle while continuing to push on the the mag release button is appealing. I think this invention could be useful for that purpose even if nothing else and I'd consider buying and installing one for that reason alone. Whether or not it has significant value in terms of clearing a malfunction compared to simply dropping the mag, pulling back on the charging handle, inserting a new mag and pulling back on the charging handle again remains to be seen. I'd be good to see a comparison of clearing a malfunction using both methods though to see if one is significantly faster than the other.

As for the material and the color ... I'd suggest stainless and flat black (Cerakote perhaps) ... kind of obvious maybe. Put some neat laser etched logo on there and you'll be laughing all the way to the bank!

 

[MCMXI]

By the way, does this device also act as an ambidextrous mag release? I have Norgon Ambi-Catch mag releases on my ARs so would this device work with them too or would it make them redundant?

 

[Tim the student]

I don't see it as anything I would want, or use. But, I haven't used one of these either.

 

[Wayland]

Whether or not it has significant value in terms of clearing a malfunction compared to simply dropping the mag, pulling back on the charging handle, inserting a new mag and pulling back on the charging handle again remains to be seen. I'd be good to see a comparison of clearing a malfunction using both methods though to see if one is significantly faster than the other.

If a malfuncunction requires remedial action, it can be assumed the bolt needs to be locked back. Failing to do so can actually make the malfunction worse.

As for the material and the color ... I'd suggest stainless and flat black (Cerakote perhaps)

Thanks for the suggestion.

Wayland.

 

[Tim the student]

If a malfuncunction requires remedial action, it can be assumed the bolt needs to be locked back. Failing to do so can actually make the malfunction worse.

That hasn't been my experience.

Just charging it takes care of most malfunctions - and that doesn't require locking it back.

 

[Dimis]

if its not insanely overpriced once in production id say i would at least consider giving it a shot

will there be any fitting to the rifle or will this just simply drop in (or on)?

will you need to replace either the bolt catch or the mag release or can you use stock parts that are already on the rifle?

as for colors start with basic milspec and let the customer worry about fancy finishes function first then form

 

[Wayland]

That hasn't been my experience.

Just charging it takes care of most malfunctions - and that doesn't require locking it back.

Immediate action (tap-rack-bang, or SPORTS in some circles) clears 90% of malfunctions. If immediate action fails to get the weapon back in the fight, you move on to remedial action, which involves locking the bolt to the rear, stripping the likely-bad magazine, putting a fresh mag in and releasing the bolt, give or take.

This invention relates to remedial action, not immediate.

Wayland.

 

[Wayland]

will there be any fitting to the rifle or will this just simply drop in (or on)?

In this embodiment, no fitting is required.

will you need to replace either the bolt catch or the mag release or can you use stock parts that are already on the rifle?

In this embodiment, it replaces the magazine catch. No extra parts are added.

Wayland.

 

[Rail Driver]

I like it. Is it compatible with a BAD lever? I wish my AR locked the bolt back with one control instead of two. Using this product in conjunction with the BAD lever, I can see how it would help me operate all controls of the rifle (with the exception of the charging handle) from a firing position without removing my sights from the target much quicker than with just the BAD lever, or a stock rifle.

 

[FlyinBryan]

what is the alternative to this device, or the method to safely clear a malfunction on a standard rifle?

isnt it just to drop the mag, depress the bottom of the bolt catch rocker, and proceed as you would by using this?

so it basically eliminates a change of grip hands?

 

[A and O]

In all endeavors you will find naysayers and folks who will try to talk you out of following your idea to it's end. At first I thought on your idea I admit I found myself in that crowd. Upon further reflection I see a use/benefit for those in need of speed. As a Business man my first question would be, who will benefit the most from my item. Answer that question and you will find your target group for potential sales. Not being the sharpest guy in this thread regarding ar's (I live behind the ar curtain) I do see a great potential in sales to PD's and the Military. Perhaps by selling the rights to the current suppliers.

I for one encourage you to follow your dream and follow through to fruition.