Is .38 Special Sufficient for SD ?

[redbullitt]

I think it does just fine with a good loading. No issues here. Most people don't even have a weapon nor the mindset to even think of defending themselves, so the 38 will definitely be markedly better than what most people are are carrying.

That said, I generally prefer something with a bit more capacity, BUT I carried a sp101 for a couple years and would do so again if that is what I had. Can't beat the versatility of a 357 revolver. The 38 LCR still gets pocket carry sometimes. With the laser and short barrel gold dots I do not feel undergunned.

 

[cfullgraf]

My bedside gun is a S&W 442. I'm comfortable with 38 Special for self defense.

That does not mean 38 Special is the be all that ends all. But it will work just fine.

 

[Kendal Black]

The .38 Special is a known quantity by this time, as thoroughly tried out as a handgun cartridge ever can be. It worked out pretty well. There was no mass movement away from using it until high capacity auto pistols took center stage. The last of the military's .38 revolvers mustered out in the era when that Beretta 15-shooter was coming into use. Cops in the big city near me turned in their .38's and got Glocks. I still like and trust the .38.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I don't know what you meant by every cartridge has it's place and I don't care if you "report" me or not. I didn't say what I said in a personal manner or as a personal attack so I'm sorry you felt that way. The would you want to get shot with it comment is just a pet peeve of mine, so that came through too much I guess.

If the problem is self-defense against a human threat. Picking something best suited to stop a human aggressor, how can every gun or loading have its place to pick the proper one ahead of time? Isn't there an objective reality that dictates some choices are a lot better than others? Now, subjectively, people can make all sorts of compromises for comfort, convenience, cost etc. but that wouldn't make certain choices the proper ones from an objective SD standpoint.

Objectively, a gun that has good sights and can be shot quickly and accurately by the user with enough power to drive a high quality HP 12"-18" in gel and expand to .50-.70 cal is about as good as it gets for handguns based on the best ballistic science and shooting results we have at this time.

I also think we may look at the SD from opposite angles. I start with the threat environment and work backwards, trying to get as close as reasonably possible to whatever would be best for the threat, not from what I want to carry and is it suited.

The question in the OP used the word sufficient, not optimal. My point about standing in from if a .38 Special was, not every SD situation has to end in a one shot kill. The act of being shot or shot at many times will end the attack. The whole point is to end the attack.

 

[CajunBass]

Well, I sure hope it will be.

There's an old Model 10 on my nightstand every night.

 

[Tallball]

I am comfortable with it for CC or HD. A nice hot round with a nice hollowpoint bullet is plenty good enough.

 

[Curator]

Check out the effectiveness of a .38, 148 grain "wadcutter" at 700-800 fps. Accurate and deadly. It also allows you to train with what you carry. Lots of info on the web.

 

[Drail]

Why wouldn't it be? An awful lot of people today seem to believe that the caliber they choose will magically guarantee them a one shot stop just like they see on TV. It is much more important "where" you hit a perp than "what" you hit them with IMO. One single round of .22 LR will kill or drop a human almost instantly if properly placed. So will a .38 or a .45. But YOU must place it where it will do the most damage to the human anatomy. A handgun is probably the weakest gun you can use to stop a determined attack so your shot must be to a critical spot. A serious wound may take away their ability to use their arms or legs, but may not stop their attack. I think people tend to overthink the whole caliber, "magnum", designer hollowpoint marketing silliness. Just like the real estate people say - location is at the very top of the list and that's why practice is so very important. A .38 Spl. is sufficient to stop an attack but only if you can place it where it will do the most damage. If you do not have that skill then the caliber you select isn't going to make much difference.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I completely agree Drail. I have been saying and posting for a very long time, the best ammo in the world will do you no good unless you make good hits.

 

[22250Rem]

Don't have any idea what would be "optimal" for self defense but a 38 Spl. could certainly be called "qualified". I have two .357's that sometimes see 38 Spl. usage and I handload 38 Spl. to some +P levels accordingly for use in the .357's. At normal self defense range a 158 gr. hard cast semi-wadcutter chronographed at a little over 900 fps (from a 4" barrel) certainly would be sufficient. I consider +P 38 Spl. to be great for use in revolvers that can take the higher pressures on a regular basis (like .357's) because for general self defense a .357 Magnum cartridge is almost more than is really needed.

 

[Drail]

About the only thing I would be hesitant to use a .38 Spl. on would be a table of bowling pins. I have seen .38 Spls. bounce off of pins and come back and just rock the pin. Them things are tough. I have seen guys at the range tease my wife when they found out she carried a .38 Spl. J frame. She would smile and tell them it will work just fine when I hit them right between the eyes (and she could do that). The look on their face was priceless.

 

[dickydalton]

Anyone who says todays 38 Special +P aren't as hot as the old days 38 Specials has not tried Underwood Ammunition and doesn't reload. WAIT, Some ammo may be loaded lighter now but Not ALL. OK? I have a bunch of 1960s 38 special "Police" loads and they are not that powerful at all. Underwoods 125 Hollow points clocked 1180ish FPS out of my 2" SP101 and they claim 1000 FPS on their 158 SWCHP.
I've got some 175 grain SWCs that I have to chrono yet that are plenty powerful.

 

[22250Rem]

I used to own a S&W 642, 5 shot, 38 Spl. J Frame snubby and could run Hornady 125 gr. XTP H.P's over the chronograph at an average 850 fps fueled by a +P load of 7.9 gr. of HS-6. That's gotta be more than sufficient for self defense, and in a small, light, handy, reliable, easily concealable package.

 

[xXxplosive]

Anyone who says todays 38 Special +P aren't as hot as the old days 38 Specials has not tried Underwood Ammunition and doesn't reload. WAIT, Some ammo may be loaded lighter now but Not ALL. OK? I have a bunch of 1960s 38 special "Police" loads and they are not that powerful at all. Underwoods 125 Hollow points clocked 1180ish FPS out of my 2" SP101 and they claim 1000 FPS on their 158 SWCHP.
I've got some 175 grain SWCs that I have to chrono yet that are plenty powerful.

Remember the old NORMA Ammo..........breathed fire.

 

[Drail]

Especially the old Norma 10mm. Aye chihuahuha!

 

[fastbolt]

While some folks can do better when using standard pressure loads (controllability and sensitivity to recoil), folks with a bit more skill and experience may decide to avail themselves of some of the better +P offerings, presuming their snubs are approved to use it. Some of the enwer loads have benefited from attention to help them offer better short barrel ballistic potential.

While I have a couple of standard pressure 110gr JHP's and a 125gr JHP set aside for my 37-2, I like to use Speer 135gr GDHP SB +P, Remington 125gr HPJ/BJHP "Golden Sabre" +P and Winchester 130gr RA38B (PDX1) in my +P capable snubs.

I still have some boxes of the Remington LHP & Winchester LSWCHP 158gr +P loads, but I mostly keep those as something to fall back upon if I'm ever unable to find the middleweight JHP +P loads.

I also still have some Speer 125gr GDHP +P, but those are probably best left to the 4" guns, and Speer engineers designed that new 135gr GDHP bullet for NYPD snubs, which became the Short Barrel load.

 

[red rick]

There was a shootout near me in 1994 in a jewelry store . It involved 2 ex con hard cases and the two brothers that owner the jewelry store . The owner was somewhat prepared for such an event that took place that day . He had bought 11 Rossi .38 spl. snubnose revolvers , a .44 mag. Blackhawk and a 870 shotgun and placed them all around the jewelry counter .

It is a good read , movie like . Search ( lead and diamonds and look for shootout at Beverly Hills Jewely, Richmond Va. ) .

The owner interviewed in the article says , he was not impressed with how many shots it took from the .38 to stop the first bad guy . I thought it did pretty good , none of the good guys were injured .

 

[MedWheeler]

^^ Yes, the owner reported not being impressed with the Rossi .38s, but none of the accounts I read of that incident (I thought that was in 1984 - right down the road from my sister's place at the time) included data on the hits the jewelers scored, or on what ammunition the guns contained.

 

[red rick]

I read he was using Remington 125gr. semi jacketed HP .

 

[RealGun]

I am comfortable with it for CC or HD. A nice hot round with a nice hollowpoint bullet is plenty good enough.

That "nice hot round" will require more than a pocket gun to shoot it. There are 38s and there are 38s.

 

[FLNT4EVR]

I have every confidence in my LCR,loaded with warm full wad cutters .and i carry 2 speed loaders filled with the swchp 158 grn FBI load . both have been effective longer than I have been on this earth .

 

[ROD KLOMP]

Of course it is. Virtually any load in .38 Special will penetrate deeply enough to damage the central nervous system or circulatory system. That's what stops people. Some of the loads available will do a hell of a lot of damage when they get there too. I use the Buffalo Bore 158gr. SWCHPs designed for short-barreled guns. +P velocity/standard pressure. Good stuff.

I just ordered 4 boxes of Buffalo Bore 158gr. SWCHPs, I've never heard one bad thing about this company's products, but have had no luck finding their ammo at my LGS, so I ordered on line..Elmer Kieth was a fan, so I'm sure I ill be too.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I usually carry around a 10 lbs G3 7.62x51mm NATO rifle but sometimes I find myself out and about with a .38 snub though I know in the back of my mind I should never have left the G3 behind and hope I don't have to fight my way back to it!!

 

[Blkhrt13]

The first weapon you use is between your ears, the second is your eyes. The third is the closest gun. I like my 44 mag. But it carries poorly compared to my elderly charter undercover or my colt. I forget my charter is in me sometimes. I too am of the blunt nosed wadcutter with a high grain count. Placement being the key. I don't have any concern about the 38s effectiveness. Sure I feel better with my 3in 44 but if I actually use it I won't get it back.

 

[dickydalton]

The first weapon you use is between your ears, the second is your eyes. The third is the closest gun. I like my 44 mag. But it carries poorly compared to my elderly charter undercover or my colt. I forget my charter is in me sometimes. I too am of the blunt nosed wadcutter with a high grain count. Placement being the key. I don't have any concern about the 38s effectiveness. Sure I feel better with my 3in 44 but if I actually use it I won't get it back.

You won't get it back if you're dead either. That aside, I don't carry my 44 mag much either. Too afraid of what may be behind the bad guy.