Is a knife 2nd best to gun?

[genxsis]

This forum is called "Non-Firearm Weapons", and I noticed that almost all of the threads here are about knives. Is the knife the weapon of choice when a gun is not available? I would think it would be something like pepper spray, or something else that puts space between myself and my assailant.

I know that's only in a self defense situation, but that's what I think about when I think of the word "weapon".

But do most people chose a knife instead when they can't carry a gun? Or how about this: Does anyone carry a knife over a gun no matter what???

 

[Sniper X]

A back up peice is the second best thing to a gun....Ha! i SAID IT FIRST!

Honestly, a knife if used correctly is a very very deadly alternative to a firearm, and a great back weapon.

 

[CWL]

The praticality of any weapon depends on the situation.

A pistol makes a better distance weapon than a contact weapon. Knives can have the advantage against the draw within 7 yards. I can draw and fire 2 rounds in ~2.5 seconds but my knife can make 10 cuts in that same amount of time...

Pepperspray works, but it depends on the determination of your attacker. It also takes about 1.5 seconds for pepperspray to work on the typical person -this still leaves you open to attack during this time. Pepperspray may also be more effective for less threatening encounters (keeping that vagrant from harrassing you...)

You will find that probably everyone here carries at least one knife. A lot of people carry gun + knife. Many people carry gun + knife + pepperspray. Some may carry additional items like flashlight, kubaton, etc. This may (should) be combined with martial arts knowledge.

You can carry whatever you want, it is the knowledge that comes from training that is the most useful in helping you react to an incident accordingly.

 

[mp510]

I carry a knife pretty much 24/7- except when I'm sleeping or carrying the knife would be illegal or grossly stupid. I don't consider whether it would make a good weapon or not when choosing what knife to carry- just whether it makes a good tool or not. If it happens to save my life, it did- but my knives are carried as tools first everything else a distant second.

 

[Soap]

I think that we all can agree that the knife is the easiest weapon to carry of any type. Add in the utlitarian purposes of one, and you have universal commonality.

 

[Mandirigma]

Personally I prefer to have a stick in hand before a knife. I'm just better with them. But due to carry laws here in Texas me carrying an asp is illegal, so I've had to switch to a knife.

 

[hso]

Knife - easiest to carry, but the most difficult to use well

Baton - most effective, but not the easiest to carry

Spray - not as easy as a knife, has the advantage of reach over even a baton, has the disadvantage of all chemicals (when it works it works well, but it may not work)

 

[whited]

.

knives are carried as tools first everything else a distant second

+1

I would imagine that IN MOST CIRCUSTANCES AND DEPENDING UPON THE
USER, a baton or good can of spray would be superior to any knife.

 

[MudCamper]

Knives also tend to be legal to carry in most places, even where firearm CCW is not legal. And batons tend to be illegal. That is my I carry a knife. I can't legally carry a firearm in my county of CA, but I can legally carry my 4 inch folder.

Knives are also extremely useful every-day tools. And like others have said, they're easy to carry.

 

[bad LT]

Curently, I live in an area where I cannot carry a gun...

However, I will continue to carry a knife once I live in an area where I can carry a gun. This is because I would look awfully silly trying to spread peanut butter with a gun.

However, a knife in trained hands is a dangerous thing. But then, so is a rolling pin, chair, or frying pan. The knife is simply easier to carry than any of the aformentioned items

 

[strambo]

Apples and Oranges. I assume we are talking strickly about use as a weapon and not as a utility tool.

If you need a firearm...only a firearm will do. There are no substitutes or 2nd bests. Why? A firearm is a projectile weapon, if you need to injure the guy across the street, or room, nothing else will do. Now if the threats (all of them) are within 6ft of you (one lunging step to contact) then bare hands or any tool including knives and firearms can be employed. Once again though...if you slice and dice BG #1 and #2...then handgun armed BG#3 appears from his lookout position 12 ft away...there is no substitute for a projectile weapon.

Knives are also extremely useful every-day tools. And like others have said, they're easy to carry.

That's pretty much why I have one all the time.

 

[12GA00buck]

A knife can be very useful at close ranges. It is very important to have an understanding of knife fighting principles and techniques, and better yet, formal training. Carrying a tactical folder does not make you a capable knife fighter; you wouldn’t carry a gun without practicing marksmanship, you shouldn’t rely on a knife for self-defense without training and practice.

Here is a few publications I found to be very informative

“Kill or Get Killed” Colonel Rex Applegate
“Close Combat” US Marine Corps
Anything printed by W.E Fairbairn would also be usefull

The first can be downloaded in PDF format
Here- http://www.gutterfighting.org/files/Kill_or_Get_Killed.pdf

 

[Cousin Jack]

Hickory walking stick or cane. I also always have a knife nearby, but the best defensive tool is the one that can be brought into action quick enough. A walking stick or cane is always deployed/in hand.

 

[Valkman]

Some feel that inside of 6' a knife is best. I think those are people highly trained in knife fighting though - I'll take my chances with my Kimber first and then I'm in deep dodo. I carry knives but not as weapons and if 2 mags of .45acp doesn't do it I don't think my knife will either.

 

[JShirley]

Any tool can become a weapon.

Knives are useful tools, and generally more useful than other tools that could also be used for defense.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

An episode of Criminal Minds had an interesting take on the subject. One of the FBI guys was giving an Apache reservation cop a hassle because the Indian only carried a knife. The Indian made mention of the "21 foot rule." An FBI agent informed the others about that rule and the Indian gave his own interpretation, "Inside 21 feet I win. Beyond that, I look for something else." When asked what that was, he replied, "Run."

 

[hso]

Valkman,

You don't have to be well trained in use of a knife to be dangerous. A simple prison rush with pump will do the job and that takes no fancy training. Don't think for a moment that someone little more than 6ft away from you isn't as deadly with a knife as you are with a gun. You'd be making a horrible mistake, especially since I like you and don't want some scum bag poking too many holes in you.

 

[Don Gwinn]

The Indian made mention of the "21 foot rule." An FBI agent informed the others about that rule and the Indian gave his own interpretation, "Inside 21 feet I win. Beyond that, I look for something else."

That guy misunderstood Tueller.

Anyway, pepper spray and guns are equally useful for opening envelopes. Knives work better.

 

[CWL]

Some feel that inside of 6' a knife is best. I think those are people highly trained in knife fighting though - I'll take my chances with my Kimber first and then I'm in deep dodo

The more commonly accepted distance is 21'.

A hard straight thrust with a knife is the hardest attack to defend against. You can try to block, divert, sidestep or any combination of above, but how are you going to bear your pistol since you are most likely reacting to an assault? Even if you shoot the BG COM, momentum or stubborness will still deliver the knife straight towards you.

 

[Valkman]

hso, I know all that and know how dangerous a knife attack is. I'm just not one who says I'll defend against it with a knife - I believe those who say they'll defend with a knife when a gun is available are the trained ones.

but how are you going to bear your pistol since you are most likely reacting to an assault?

I guess you're one who'd take the knife instead a gun. No thanks - I'll block it anyway I have to and shoot them. Your question actually applies to many CCW situations and it's why you carry so you can draw and shoot with one hand while using the other to fend off the BG. I'm disabled, so others can dodge and weave and turn somersaults and run - I will shoot them one way or another if attacked.

 

[22-rimfire]

I think if all you have is a knife and you get into trouble where you might get hurt or worse (ie attacked), it's best to just RUN. If you can't run, pray that your attacker does not know how to fight with a knife. It is a learned skill. Much harder to learn than shooting. I want no part of a knife fight. But I carry a knife every single day. It's a tool. It cuts things. Hey just had to put in a new toner cartridge in my printer.... knife gets used. Today, I probably used my knife no fewer than 5 times. The only time I don't have a knife on me is when I'm at the court house or similar building.

 

[CWL]

Valkman, If you are disabled, you may need to use separate set of SD actions.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that you should not limit your arsenal.

 

[Valkman]

I carry a gun and knives and pepper spray, but if someone is in a position to attack me with a knife I'm not pulling anything but the gun. If others want to leave the gun and pull a knife, I wish 'em well and hope the best for 'em but it's not for me.

I am wondering now if the pepper gel would be a good 2nd alternative. Spray the face and try to get out of Dodge!

 

[Hkmp5sd]

That guy misunderstood Tueller.

Yea, I know. But it was amusing for TV. Later in the same episode, they are describing a local group of 200 people that between them own a total of 450 guns. They describe that as "...way more than you need for self defense. That's just paranoid!" The irony being they constantly harrass one of the FBI guys for carrying 2 handguns as being paranoid.

Gotta love TV cops.

 

[Cousin Jack]

If at all possible, I highly recommend finding/taking some force on force training. It will be a real eye opener.

On the first day of FoF training, which I audited, there wasn't one single armed GG who could successfully defend against the BG bearing a knife. All knew the attack was coming and all had the same "when issued a hammer, all problems look like a nail" mentality.

All suffered from "fatal knife wounds", even those who succeeded in drawing their weapon....BG kept pumping his knife into the GG, keeping him on his heels and off balance.

Most of the guys taking the class where police officers with prior training, just not realistic scenario training.