Joe Demko
Member
Chrome lining wasn't invented by "commies" in order to deal with untrained troops. Among others, the Imperial Japanese Army used it a long time ago.
Is a non-chrome lined barrel on an AR a dealbreaker?
- Thread starter BHPshooter
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NonConformist
member
No My Armalite had a lapped Match Barrel, non lines, and its been problem free. Damn things like a laser!
kcshooter
Member
Match grade and serious target rifles will not have chrome linings. It impedes accuracy. It is fine on guns that are cleaned after shooting.
Military rifles taken into battle will. It helps in adverse situations when thorough cleaning is infrequent or not possible.
Which sounds more like your typical situation for most gun owners?
If you think you have a vital "need" a chrome lining, you probably work for a tactical response team at your local mall.
Military rifles taken into battle will. It helps in adverse situations when thorough cleaning is infrequent or not possible.
Which sounds more like your typical situation for most gun owners?
If you think you have a vital "need" a chrome lining, you probably work for a tactical response team at your local mall.
Unless it's a match rifle with a stainless barrel, yes it's a deal breaker.
Non-chrome lined moly steel barrels are often by the cheaper AR companies, which means that the chrome lining likely isn't the only they went cheaper on.
Also chrome lining often extends the total barrel life because the chrome lining is about twice as hard as the steel of the barrel.
Non-chrome lined moly steel barrels are often by the cheaper AR companies, which means that the chrome lining likely isn't the only they went cheaper on.
Also chrome lining often extends the total barrel life because the chrome lining is about twice as hard as the steel of the barrel.
Gary G23
Member
"Non-chrome lined moly steel barrels are often by the cheaper AR companies, which means that the chrome lining likely isn't the only they went cheaper on."
Exactly. I don't know of anyone that uses 4150 CMV (MIL-B-11595E, CrMoV Grade) barrel steel that isn't chrome lined.
Exactly. I don't know of anyone that uses 4150 CMV (MIL-B-11595E, CrMoV Grade) barrel steel that isn't chrome lined.
If the company you are buying from stands by their products then don't worry.
Unless you are the typical Internet denizen with our natural 20-20 vision, superior hand/eye co-ordination and Zen Master ability to control our breathing and heart beat then the marginal increase in accuracy will never be noticed.
Shoot - Clean - Repeat
Unless you are the typical Internet denizen with our natural 20-20 vision, superior hand/eye co-ordination and Zen Master ability to control our breathing and heart beat then the marginal increase in accuracy will never be noticed.
Shoot - Clean - Repeat
Shear_stress
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I'm all for chrome lining on any rifle that doesn't require match accuracy, not that I am enough of a marksman to tell the difference. As someone who doesn't compete in High Power or CMP matches, I favor the marginal increase in reliability over the marginal decrease in accuracy.
Apparently wanting to spend another $40 to maximize the reliability of a rifle that could really use it makes me a tactical wanna-be.
Apparently wanting to spend another $40 to maximize the reliability of a rifle that could really use it makes me a tactical wanna-be.
ProCarryNAustin
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Not a deal breaker for me.
It will take me a long time to fire enough rounds to wear out my barrel since I don't get my kicks from magazine dumps. When it wears out, it is not that big a deal to replace.
I enjoy cleaning my guns after an outing as I have been addicted to Hoppes since I was about 10.
I will take every bit of additional accuracy, even if it is marginal.
It is not that I would refuse a rifle with a chromed lined barrel, I just don't feel it offers me enough to pay extra for it.
YMMV.
Daniel
Austin, Texas
It will take me a long time to fire enough rounds to wear out my barrel since I don't get my kicks from magazine dumps. When it wears out, it is not that big a deal to replace.
I enjoy cleaning my guns after an outing as I have been addicted to Hoppes since I was about 10.
I will take every bit of additional accuracy, even if it is marginal.
It is not that I would refuse a rifle with a chromed lined barrel, I just don't feel it offers me enough to pay extra for it.
YMMV.
Daniel
Austin, Texas
Depends on what it's going to be used for.
An AR that is used primarily for carbine classes and 3 gun matches? I'd want a chrome barrel.
An AR that is used for highpower matches? Probably prefer non-chrome lined.
An AR isn't really used? I suspect it doesn't matter
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An AR that is used primarily for carbine classes and 3 gun matches? I'd want a chrome barrel.
An AR that is used for highpower matches? Probably prefer non-chrome lined.
An AR isn't really used? I suspect it doesn't matter
.Yosemite**Sam
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Chrome lined barrels will far out last a non chrome lined barrel. I have personal experience with some old Colts that have well in excess of 30,000 rounds and the barrels are not shot out.
threefeathers
member
If it will be a single AR for my it would be a deal breaker. If it will be a companion piece designed for competition or preditor hunting I'd get it. Either way you've got about 7 months to get them by my guess so choose right.
ProCarryNAustin
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"Either way you've got about 7 months to get them by my guess so choose right. "
Given the election results of 1996, I'm not so sure politicians will be so quick to repeat the mistakes of 1994. I could be wrong, but 1996 was a strong lesson for the Democrats as a party.
Daniel
Austin, Texas
Given the election results of 1996, I'm not so sure politicians will be so quick to repeat the mistakes of 1994. I could be wrong, but 1996 was a strong lesson for the Democrats as a party.
Daniel
Austin, Texas
RockyMtnTactical
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It's a deal breaker for me, but it just depends. Some people don't feel like they need one. If you know all of the advantages and don't think you need one, you aren't wanting the rifle for serious shooting and you probably don't need a chromed barrel...
ProCarryNAustin
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"If you know all of the advantages and don't think you need one, you aren't wanting the rifle for serious shooting and you probably don't need a chromed barrel..."
Mine's used for hunting and personal defense which I consider serious shooting. YMMV.
Daniel
Austin, Texas
Mine's used for hunting and personal defense which I consider serious shooting. YMMV.
Daniel
Austin, Texas
I'm with Bix:
Depends on what it's going to be used for.
An AR that is used primarily for carbine classes and 3 gun matches? I'd want a chrome barrel.
An AR that is used for highpower matches? Probably prefer non-chrome lined.
[HK&1911: I would prefer a MATCH-grade, such as, BM DCM or WOA]
An AR isn't really used? I suspect it doesn't matter .
Here is some good information on the different steels used...
From: http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAr15ShootersSite/barrelfaq.msnw
Q: What is the difference between Chrome/Moly and Chrome Lined? How does Stainless fit in?
A: All manufactures use Chrome/Moly steel to make barrels - its a type of steel that has some chrome in it to help with wear and corrosion resistance IT IS NOT the same as 'Chrome Lined'. There are two types of Chrome/Moly that are used to make AR-15 barrels. The most common (an most inexpensive) is 4140, its a decent steel that is used on many firarms. The other (more expensive) type is 4150, its got more chrome in it and is more durable and corrsion resistant; only Colt, Bushmaster, and FN use 4150 steel for their barrels. A 4140 chrome/moly barrel is the least expensive barrel you can purchase - yet they can be quite accurate.
Chrome Lining is a process where chrome is 'welded' to the steel of the barrel. This produces a coating that is twice as hard as the steel. It prevents corrosion, makes cleaning much easier, and extends the barrels life. There is also a slight drop in accuracy (compared to an identical quality non-lined barrel), about 0.5 MOA worth from what I've seen - something 99% of shooters won't notice. Chrome lined chambers are a reliability enhancer. Only chrome/moly barrels can be chrome lined. Bushmaster and Armalite chrome line their barrels, Colt chrome lines their chambers (and the bores on their military profile barrels), and RRA has produced limited runs of chrome lined M4 barrels. Chrome lined barrels have the longest life expectancy.
Stainless barrels are used on match rifles. The Stainless steel is easier to rifle consistantly, and consistancy is the key to an accurate barrel. Once broken in stainless barrels are almost as easy to clean as chrome lined. Stainless barrels are also very corrosion resistant. Some companies (like Olympic Arms) have a process that blackens the stainless, others (like DPMS) leave the barrels 'in the white' (silver color). Generally the most accurate rifle have stainless steel barrels.
HK&1911
Depends on what it's going to be used for.
An AR that is used primarily for carbine classes and 3 gun matches? I'd want a chrome barrel.
An AR that is used for highpower matches? Probably prefer non-chrome lined.
[HK&1911: I would prefer a MATCH-grade, such as, BM DCM or WOA]
An AR isn't really used? I suspect it doesn't matter .
Here is some good information on the different steels used...
From: http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAr15ShootersSite/barrelfaq.msnw
Q: What is the difference between Chrome/Moly and Chrome Lined? How does Stainless fit in?
A: All manufactures use Chrome/Moly steel to make barrels - its a type of steel that has some chrome in it to help with wear and corrosion resistance IT IS NOT the same as 'Chrome Lined'. There are two types of Chrome/Moly that are used to make AR-15 barrels. The most common (an most inexpensive) is 4140, its a decent steel that is used on many firarms. The other (more expensive) type is 4150, its got more chrome in it and is more durable and corrsion resistant; only Colt, Bushmaster, and FN use 4150 steel for their barrels. A 4140 chrome/moly barrel is the least expensive barrel you can purchase - yet they can be quite accurate.
Chrome Lining is a process where chrome is 'welded' to the steel of the barrel. This produces a coating that is twice as hard as the steel. It prevents corrosion, makes cleaning much easier, and extends the barrels life. There is also a slight drop in accuracy (compared to an identical quality non-lined barrel), about 0.5 MOA worth from what I've seen - something 99% of shooters won't notice. Chrome lined chambers are a reliability enhancer. Only chrome/moly barrels can be chrome lined. Bushmaster and Armalite chrome line their barrels, Colt chrome lines their chambers (and the bores on their military profile barrels), and RRA has produced limited runs of chrome lined M4 barrels. Chrome lined barrels have the longest life expectancy.
Stainless barrels are used on match rifles. The Stainless steel is easier to rifle consistantly, and consistancy is the key to an accurate barrel. Once broken in stainless barrels are almost as easy to clean as chrome lined. Stainless barrels are also very corrosion resistant. Some companies (like Olympic Arms) have a process that blackens the stainless, others (like DPMS) leave the barrels 'in the white' (silver color). Generally the most accurate rifle have stainless steel barrels.
HK&1911
R.W.Dale
Member
Chrome lined AR15's are the gun equivalent of those Super Duty F350 diesels parked in driveways all across suburban America that haven't towed anything heavier than a bass boat or hauled anything heavier than a Harley in the bed.
PFFT! LOL How much time have you spent crawling round in the jungle with your AR-15?
A chrome lined AR15 IS hyperbole personified.
PFFT! LOL How much time have you spent crawling round in the jungle with your AR-15?
A chrome lined AR15 IS hyperbole personified.
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I don't think that is an apt comparison. I think it's like comparing summer performance tire, and all weather tires.
The summer tires give you greater performance, but won't last as long. All weather tires generally last longer, and work better in a wider variety of environments.
RC's the man. Just to reinforce, look at Sabre Defense rifles by use, then notice the lining options:
http://www.sabredefence.com/commercial.php
Competition, Match, Varmint and Marksman --- no chrome.
Carbine and Tactical --- chrome
Mostly.
http://www.sabredefence.com/commercial.php
Competition, Match, Varmint and Marksman --- no chrome.
Carbine and Tactical --- chrome
Mostly.
R.W.Dale
Member
OK then, By your analogy a Chrome bored AR is akin to drivin round on winter tires IN FLORIDA
aka108
Member
Guess I'd prefer chrome lined if I lived in a rain forest and shot corrosive ammo. Otherwise, chrome or unchromed, wouldn't make or break a deal for me.
No chrome lined ARs are like the all weather tires, they last long, and work in a wider variety of enviroments.
Stainless (which are obviously non-chrome lined) are like the performance tire.
Non-chrome lined moly steel barrels are like those cheap non-name tires at Walmart. Yeah they work, but they won't last as long, and they don't perform as well other brands.
Anyways companies that sell non-chrome lined moly steel barrels, generally go cheap on other parts that result in a cheaper gun over all. Like not staking anything, using rifle FSB on flat top uppers, and using cheap bolts that haven't been test at all.
Shear_stress
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As has been repeatedly pointed out, chrome lining is not just about rust prevention, but about maximizing reliability and barrel life at a slight cost to accuracy. I don't compete and I also like the things I own to be as reliable and long lasting as can be.
If we want to go down the slippery slope of "necessity", why do you need a military-derived, collapsible stocked, semi-auto capable of using high-capacity magazines in the first place? Surely we could all just get by with wood-stocked turnbolts! Oh yeah, because we like them, it's our right, and the chrome on my gun doesn't make your gun less accurate.
If we want to go down the slippery slope of "necessity", why do you need a military-derived, collapsible stocked, semi-auto capable of using high-capacity magazines in the first place? Surely we could all just get by with wood-stocked turnbolts! Oh yeah, because we like them, it's our right, and the chrome on my gun doesn't make your gun less accurate.
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